Ceramic Coils Safety Hazard. Your Opinion?

[kashif]

I am sure most of you are familiar with the articles about possible health risks associated with prolonged use of ceramic coils. The research is done by Uwell. I am not posting link here because don't want it to be considered as a spam link.

What Uwell discovered is that there is potential for small pieces of the ceramic coil to break and release silica powder, which is harmful to your health. Prolonged inhalation as done in vaping can lead to trachea and lung damage, as well as lung cancer. They shared the microscopic images as well.

So, I want to ask your reaction about this. Do you guys still using ceramic coils or stopped using them after reading about the potential health risk with them. For example the Vaporesso GT coils are extremely powerful and give amazing flavour according to my knowledge but is it worth to take the risk, that's the question.

Your opinion please.

 

[Vapedog]

I am sure most of you are familiar with the articles about possible health risks associated with prolonged use of ceramic coils. The research is done by Uwell. I am not posting link here because don't want it to be considered as a spam link.

What Uwell discovered is that there is potential for small pieces of the ceramic coil to break and release silica powder, which is harmful to your health. Prolonged inhalation as done in vaping can lead to trachea and lung damage, as well as lung cancer. They shared the microscopic images as well.

So, I want to ask your reaction about this. Do you guys still using ceramic coils or stopped using them after reading about the potential health risk with them. For example the Vaporesso GT coils are extremely powerful and give amazing flavour according to my knowledge but is it worth to take the risk, that's the question.

Your opinion please.

Hi. Have not used ceramic. Was going to try some once but that info you mentioned I read back then and it turned me off the idea to be honest.

 

[stols001]

I have occasionally used ceramic coils and there are plenty of folks who do.

Given that Uwell was the ONLY person to release such information and had promised a ceramic coil, I sort of read that article as WE (Uwell) can't do it. I think Vapersso makes a popular ceramic coil and honestly, my impressions of Vapresso so far are "there is a company that knows what it is doing."

However if you are concerned, don't do it. I don't have one mainly because my favorite drop in tank options haven't made any I love yet so I am content. Etc.

Anna

 

[Punk In Drublic]

@kashif – as I am sure you have read within another thread, I was a huge advocate of Vaporesso’s CCell coils and promoted them quite extensively here on ECF, despite the many claims from not only Uwell but also others (Google if you must). However, after discovering dust within the blister pack of a CCell coil I have given them a second thought through a different perceptive.

First, Uwell’s claims of cancer and what ever other harms is propaganda. That is nothing more than an opinion based on what they have discovered. It will take considerable amount of testing over a long duration to come to any cancer causing conclusion. That said, it does not mean we should neglect their findings as false.

My experience with CCell’s is that the ceramic is very brittle and when disassembled one can feel the sand like dust from them. Ceramic also does not expand or contract with heat. The metal coil within a CCell is baked into the ceramic, and as I am sure you know, metal expands and contracts when heated and cooled. So will this expansion/contraction cause stress on the ceramic especially when caked on burnt sugars are added? I will leave that open for interpretation.

Below is a disassembled CCell. From this picture we can see the metal coil has caked on sugars, we can also see burn like marks within the ceramic. With that I will let you draw your own conclusions.

My comments are not to steer people away from ceramic coils but to share my experience for others to evaluate their own risks. If you have concerns, do not use them.

 

[bombastinator]

@kashif – as I am sure you have read within another thread, I was a huge advocate of Vaporesso’s CCell coils and promoted them quite extensively here on ECF, despite the many claims from not only Uwell but also others (Google if you must). However, after discovering dust within the blister pack of a CCell coil I have given them a second thought through a different perceptive.

First, Uwell’s claims of cancer and what ever other harms is propaganda. That is nothing more than an opinion based on what they have discovered. It will take considerable amount of testing over a long duration to come to any cancer causing conclusion. That said, it does not mean we should neglect their findings as false.

My experience with CCell’s is that the ceramic is very brittle and when disassembled one can feel the sand like dust from them. Ceramic also does not expand or contract with heat. The metal coil within a CCell is baked into the ceramic, and as I am sure you know, metal expands and contracts when heated and cooled. So will this expansion/contraction cause stress on the ceramic especially when caked on burnt sugars are added? I will leave that open for interpretation.

Below is a disassembled CCell. From this picture we can see the metal coil has caked on sugars, we can also see burn like marks within the ceramic. With that I will let you draw your own conclusions.

My comments are not to steer people away from ceramic coils but to share my experience for others to evaluate their own risks. If you have concerns, do not use them.


View attachment 821605

Ceramic can expand and contract with heat. That expansion can even be very carefully regulated by controlling the composition of the ceramic. Ceramic is more a structure than a material. Matching it to a given metal is possible, at least in some cases over some temperature ranges. Whether they actually did it and what the composition of that ceramic is is another question though.

 

[United States]

Too soon to know for certain harmful or not. Also too soon to know if kanthall, stainless, nickel etc is harmful too. Or vanilla custard flavor or grape etc.

One thing is certain. Tobacco smoke is.

 

[Punk In Drublic]

Ceramic can expand and contract with heat. That expansion can even be very carefully regulated by controlling the composition of the ceramic. Ceramic is more a structure than a material. Matching it to a given metal is possible, at least in some cases over some temperature ranges. Whether they actually did it and what the composition of that ceramic is is another question though.

Yes, there is Thermal Expansion with ceramic, but no where near that of metal, and dependent on the composition of the ceramic. However, in the case of a porous ceramic, that is brittle to the touch, how much attention is paid to it’s thermal expansion?

 

[CMD-Ky]

I use Ready-X-Wick. I like it, I figure that the VG will keep the ceramic from becoming friable. If no, so be it. At seventy-four and a fifty year smoker, something will get me.

 

[United States]

A coworker told me the other day "did you know the average person consumes a credit card worth of plastic every month from drinking bottled water?"

I said "huh, guess I can cut back on oatmeal for my fiber then". He said "naw, seriously". I said "dude, I grew up in the 60's and 70's, drank from garden hoses, smoked cigarettes for 45 years, probably ingested lead paint, used Roundup without gloves for two decades, used drugs and drank too much for 25 years, ate 5 year old moon pies more than once, chased the mosquito spray truck more than once, swam in a creek a thousand times, changed motor oil a thousand times without gloves, sprayed my yard with Diazanon until it was banned, ate food a thousand times without washing my hands first, put super glue on cuts a few times, drank Tab in the 70's, and now vape with ceramic coils...a few grams of plastic in my guy probably doesn't matter".

 

[Punk In Drublic]

A coworker told me the other day "did you know the average person consumes a credit card worth of plastic every month from drinking bottled water?"

I said "huh, guess I can cut back on oatmeal for my fiber then". He said "naw, seriously". I said "dude, I grew up in the 60's and 70's, drank from garden hoses, smoked cigarettes for 45 years, probably ingested lead paint, used Roundup without gloves for two decades, used drugs and drank too much for 25 years, ate 5 year old moon pies more than once, chased the mosquito spray truck more than once, swam in a creek a thousand times, changed motor oil a thousand times without gloves, sprayed my yard with Diazanon until it was banned, ate food a thousand times without washing my hands first, put super glue on cuts a few times, drank Tab in the 70's, and now vape with ceramic coils...a few grams of plastic in my guy probably doesn't matter".

Although I have never eaten a 5 year old moon pie…at least not knowingly, I pretty much shadow the same thought. My profession has brought me to a few damaging environments, notably Ground Zero in NY after 9/11 where not only could you see the pollutants in the air, you could taste it! And it did not taste like moon pie! Who knows what the hell I inhaled, and I am positive it was a lot more damaging than that of a ceramic coil! But we all assess our own individual risks differently which could be dependent on the situation involved. In this case we have a choice should we have concerns over one type of coil system vs another. Or we can just say f-it, for we feel the pro’s outweigh the cons.

 

[United States]

I'd sure hate to find out later that chlorodane under my parents house wasn't harmful until mixed with microscopic ceramic particles and water bottle shavings.....

 

[MacTechVpr]

I use Ready-X-Wick. I like it, I figure that the VG will keep the ceramic from becoming friable. If no, so be it. At seventy-four and a fifty year smoker, something will get me.

You bring up a good point. Unless the dust artifacts are even smaller than loose fibers of Nextel they're not going to reach the lungs per papers on particulates I've read including those related to 3M ceramics (amorphous silica*). Anyway nobody is going to be vaping any of these elements "dry" for there to exist a likelihood of independent aspiration. My take. We're inhaling an aerosol of juices. Folks need to do their own due etc. and exercise care that atty's are as clean as practical.

Just the same I'd suggest a good rinse of any fresh ceramic/wick coil installation (or post dry burn). Dab off as much water as possible (will clear most particulates) and prime/fire with VG (no inhilation). This is the process I've followed and taught extensively for some years using Nextel woven wicking. It's now the primary media in my rotation despite pre-existing medical sensitivities.

Good luck.

* Coarse particle filaments typically in excess of 7-12μm in cross-section.

 

[bombastinator]

A coworker told me the other day "did you know the average person consumes a credit card worth of plastic every month from drinking bottled water?"

I said "huh, guess I can cut back on oatmeal for my fiber then". He said "naw, seriously". I said "dude, I grew up in the 60's and 70's, drank from garden hoses, smoked cigarettes for 45 years, probably ingested lead paint, used Roundup without gloves for two decades, used drugs and drank too much for 25 years, ate 5 year old moon pies more than once, chased the mosquito spray truck more than once, swam in a creek a thousand times, changed motor oil a thousand times without gloves, sprayed my yard with Diazanon until it was banned, ate food a thousand times without washing my hands first, put super glue on cuts a few times, drank Tab in the 70's, and now vape with ceramic coils...a few grams of plastic in my guy probably doesn't matter".

Iirc they did a test once where testin the beneficial effects of oat bran and they replaced the fiber with plastic flakes. It was apparently just as good.

 

[tailland]

I think, in general, all developments in a new and growing industry ~should~ go from bad to good.

Out of principle, general product quality should always be on a long-time upwards trajectory, and the occurence of possible safety hazards should become less and less likely. It irritiates me when those principles of healthy growth are interrupted by what looks to me like an uncalled for fallback to unsafe practices (of the past).

I mean, have I missed something? Have ceramic coils somehow revolutionised vaping to a degree that would justify accepting severe risks coming from that same material? Not that I'm aware of...

 

[Brewdawg1181]

I agree with @MacTechVpr here. There are a lot of choices, so if it's a concern for you, stick with cotton, rayon, or the wicking material of your choice.

But even if your juice were loaded with ceramic dust, it doesn't vaporize when in a VG/PG medium, and should not reach your lungs. Think about it -if you poured sand in your tank, would it end up in the vapor you are inhaling requiring you to be treated for sand in your lungs? Maybe the minerals leached from it could be in the vapor, but not the ceramic itself.

And UWell's study, iirc, was based on concerns about actual ceramic fragments reaching your lungs. Keep in mind also, it was not really a "study," in that it met scientific testing criterion, or even peer reviewed. And that UWell had no ceramic offerings at the time, so it was construed my many to be an attack on competition. For what it's worth, I'm not vaping ceramic right now, but not for those reasons. If there were a great coil out there, and I used drop in coils, I'd use one. I've vaped pods that use ceramic, and I'm not concerned with it at all.

 

[GOMuniEsq]

The fear is of pneumoconiosis or silicosis relating to dust in the lungs. These were a real scourge back when underground miners were breathing in large amounts of suspended rock dust that caked inside their lungs and left them blackened. They died from it. But only a hypochondriac could seriously believe that the tiny ceramic coil in their vape could pose a comparable threat. It's propaganda and ignorance combined to form hysteria. And it's vaguely insulting to the memory anyone who died of black lung disease.

One of the techniques to reduce dust in modern mining operations is to keep the area moist. Moist adequately describes the conditions inside a vape atomizer.

The propagandists will show scary electron microscope images of jagged ceramic, and then suggest that the jags may flake off and embed in our lungs. They don't mention that nearly every solid substance is jagged at extreme magnification.

There are two kinds of people: those who believe that any level of risk is too great and pursue an illusion of complete safety; and those know that the effects of a toxicant are dose-dependent because our bodies are capable of handing trace amounts of nearly anything. I'm among the latter.

News flash for the former: Congratulations! If you are an urban dweller you have already contracted the initial form of black lung, known as anthracosis, due to lifelong exposure to air pollution. You may be relieved to know it's asymptomatic.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Iirc they did a test once where testin the beneficial effects of oat bran and they replaced the fiber with plastic flakes. It was apparently just as good.

Bomb I don't mind the plastic much 'cept after a while you start looking like Data.

"Dis-moi ce que tu manges, je te dirai ce que tu es."

Good luck.

 

[r77r7r]

Dat 5yr old Moonpie thing is gonna stick in my head now.

 

[kashif]

I decided to stay from ceramic coils. Even if the Uwell study is not clear but still we can't deny the findings. It can be either harmful or it can be safe but unless it is proven safe its better to stay away as Ceramic coils are not end of the world. We have other options as well. I hope there is some detailed study on the use of Ceramic coils (which I don't see coming anytime soon). I really hope there is an unbiased governing body for vaping which can regulate products for us. There are so many things circulating on internet because there is no thorough research is being done to vaping products. I see the same repetitive study links on youtube but nothing new is coming and about ceramic coils as I said its better to be safe than sorry.

 

[MacTechVpr]

I think, in general, all developments in a new and growing industry ~should~ go from bad to good.

Out of principle, general product quality should always be on a long-time upwards trajectory, and the occurence of possible safety hazards should become less and less likely. It irritiates me when those principles of healthy growth are interrupted by what looks to me like an uncalled for fallback to unsafe practices (of the past).

I mean, have I missed something? Have ceramic coils somehow revolutionised vaping to a degree that would justify accepting severe risks coming from that same material? Not that I'm aware of...

They say that emulation is the greatest form of flattery; but with it, proliferation expands the parallel potentials for degradation. I've heard a lot of bad covers in my day.

Good luck.