"chain" vaping..could it be hurting me?

[Travis798]

Travis: Thank you, you explained it better then I would have.

Another way to look at it is how much you smoked. The nicotine needs of someone who smoked 10 lights a day is vastly different then smoking 3 packs of standard smokes a day. The latter's tolerance for nicotine is far higher and is not likely going to OD using 36 mg liquid, or be satisfied with anything less. Someones tolerance for nicotine doesn't change when you pick up a PV.

Not a problem Stubby. I was hoping I would make sense to someone other than myself.

How a person smoked should also be taken into consideration. When I smoked, I inhaled deeply and held it for a minute, and smoked my cigarettes down to the filter. My nicotine needs would probably be higher than someone that smoked the same number of packs as me, but didn't inhale as deeply or didn't smoke their cigarette all the way down.

There are too many varying factors to proclaim what someone needs without them trying varying levels of nic, and going from there. If you vape 36 and find it too much for you, drop down. If you vape 24 and find you still have strong cravings, step up. It's a pretty simple process, but one posts like above make people scared to try, because they believe 36mg is going to hurt them, when plenty of us vape that much or more every day.

 

[sbphotog]

Travis, Stubby...You two tards can going on trying to make your point, if trying to blast me makes you feel better then go right ahead. I NEVER told her she would overdose, I told her to be careful and that it CAN make her ill. there is a HUGE difference between can and will. but I guess that all I can expect outta you two is to pick out the parts you "feel" are wrong. Again, I believe that my post was to the OP and not to either of you. She will take from it what she wants and leave the rest.
The both of you can just leave it, your not worth my time anymore...

 

[Travis798]

Travis, Stubby...

You two tards can going on trying to make your point, if trying to blast me makes you feel better then go right ahead.

Wow, jumping to name calling with "tards". Very mature. We are not trying to blast you, simply make it clear to anyone else that reads these forums that your opinion is just that, opinion, and a poorly informed one at that.

I NEVER told her she would overdose, I told her to be careful and that it CAN make her ill. there is a HUGE difference between can and will. but I guess that all I can expect outta you two is to pick out the parts you "feel" are wrong.

Never?

What I would watch is chain vaping too high a mg. You didn't say what mg your using. Just keep in mind that if your vaping 24mg strength and you use, say, 2ml a day you are actually taking in 48mg (which is too high and can make you very ill). Or if you use 2ml of 18mg/day, your actually vaping 36mg (still high for most). It's 6,12,16,18,24,or 36mg PER ML, not bottle. The more you vape the lower the mg you should use.

So indeed, you did say it CAN make her ill. But you also stated matter of factly that 2ml a day of 24mg is too high. Saying 2ml a day of 24mg CAN make her ill, is pushing a very thin line on saying that 36mg WILL make her ill.

Again, I believe that my post was to the OP and not to either of you. She will take from it what she wants and leave the rest.
The both of you can just leave it, your not worth my time anymore...

Of course your post was to the OP, as was ours. You have the right to state the opinions that you have formed, and we have the right to come out and tell the OP that your opinions are incorrect, based upon actual implementation of many people that consistently vape the amounts of nicotine that you deem dangerous without incident.

We have to be very careful to not scare people away from safely using the higher amounts of nicotine if that is what will satisfy their cravings. We (as in those of us that have tried) KNOW that 24mg does not satisfy some people well enough to keep off the cigs. We also know that 36mg is much more satisfying. What we do NOT want to do, is convince people that 36mg is unsafe when 24mg won't cut it for them, and send them back to analogs because you made them believe analogs are *safer* than 36mg.

 

[sbphotog]

Travis, Stubby...Wow, jumping to name calling with "tards". Very mature. We are not trying to blast you, simply make it clear to anyone else that reads these forums that your opinion is just that, opinion, and a poorly informed one at that.

Never? So indeed, you did say it CAN make her ill. But you also stated matter of factly that 2ml a day of 24mg is too high. Saying 2ml a day of 24mg CAN make her ill, is pushing a very thin line on saying that 36mg WILL make her ill.


Of course your post was to the OP, as was ours. You have the right to state the opinions that you have formed, and we have the right to come out and tell the OP that your opinions are incorrect, based upon actual implementation of many people that consistently vape the amounts of nicotine that you deem dangerous without incident.

We have to be very careful to not scare people away from safely using the higher amounts of nicotine if that is what will satisfy their cravings. We (as in those of us that have tried) KNOW that 24mg does not satisfy some people well enough to keep off the cigs. We also know that 36mg is much more satisfying. What we do NOT want to do, is convince people that 36mg is unsafe when 24mg won't cut it for them, and send them back to analogs because you made them believe analogs are *safer* than 36mg.

Whatever, dude, whatever.

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

Wow, kids, let's play nice. Not picking sides here, but Travis and Stubby are on the high ground. The very most likely problem is the PG. If she chain vapes she's inhaling a large amount of PG and can cause congestion of its own, typically experienced by heaviness in the chest. A higher nic liquid should probably be concidered to avoid chain vaping. Her symptoms are common among many. As time goes by, her body will likely adjust to the PG intake, but a rise in nicotine mg should correct it sooner and she'll also feel satisfied easier. She's an experienced smoker and I'm sure she's ODed on nic in the past, as we all have to some extent, so I'm confident she'll know what's going on. Also, everyone should read DVap's blogs and get more insight into the world of nicotine and the addiction to it before being too fast on the draw to argue nic levels. Sorry, sbphotog, that's just the way it is .

 

[sbphotog]

I guess I'll just keep my opinions to myself from now on.

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

I guess I'll just keep my opinions to myself from now on.

No, you shouldn't do that. I'm sure you have valuable experience to share with many and I'd encourage that. But in regard to nicotine levels, many have been outspoken (not referring to you) on this forum about the dangers of nic vaping level, and have been greatly exagerated. Absorption of an average smoke is about 1mg nic, 1 pack would be about 20mg absorbed. Average vape is in the ballpark of 50% absorbed, so if a person vapes 2ml of 24mg liquid they would absorb about 24mg of nic, not 48mg. Personally, I vape 2.5-3 ml of 36mg per day and sporadically use 48mg, also. Sometimes I only use the 48mg for the whole day. I say this because so many don't know and may decide to hang up their PV due to non-satisfaction after heeding the familiar warnings of mega-nic. It's just not so. The lower the nic the better, but if 36, 48, or 60 keeps you off the smokes then so be it. Your ok, sb, and your opinions are worthy, but I've found it's always best make sure of the facts before heading into battle .

 

[Stubby]

TV: I would second the idea of reading DVap's blog. He's way ahead of the curve on figuring out what's going on with e-cigs. He should be required reading for beginners, and even experienced vapers.

 

[angjen0816]

i vape about 2-3mls roughly of 12mg. i was a 1.5 to 2 pad smoker of lights..so does that mean i cut down my nic levels?

 

[instantinlaw]

I chain vape 36 through my usb passthrough while on my computer which is most of the day and I feel fine. I also still smoke, but I have cut down from 2 packs of 100's a day to one pack.

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

TV: I would second the idea of reading DVap's blog. He's way ahead of the curve on figuring out what's going on with e-cigs. He should be required reading for beginners, and even experienced vapers.

Ah, right you are, Stubby. Some "old timers" have yet to venture out of the Beginner's Forum I'm afraid. I have to correct you, though. You made the suggestion to DVap's blogs and I was seconding you . It would be great to compile a "Best Of" from DVap, since his many posts throughout here would be quite a book of knowledge. Maybe combine it with Exo and kinabaloo. Wow. I'd probably suffer brain death after the 2nd chapter .

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

i vape about 2-3mls roughly of 12mg. i was a 1.5 to 2 pad smoker of lights..so does that mean i cut down my nic levels?

Hi, angjen. Here's a blog from DVap's crypt: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blogs/dvap/391-whats-scientist-do.html It helps bring some things to light. Also, if you've been off the smokes for a while and have a "something's missing" kind of craving, read through his "WTA" writings .

 

[angjen0816]

Thanks!! that was perfect. you rock

 

[Stubby]

Hey TV, I was just trying to be humble.... But seriously, much of that stuff I can't even bluff my way through. I'm the one sitting in the corner with a dunce cap on in science class. I do catch the conclusions and they usually break it down to something I can grasp. DVap's blog is very clear.

ECF has actually gotten better as of late. We are now getting some good science behind up what some have been saying for some time. It's a lot easier to have discussions with people when it can be backed up.

Edit: this thread is moving faster then I can type.

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

Hey TV, I was just trying to be humble.... But seriously, much of that stuff I can't even bluff my way through. I'm the one sitting in the corner with a dunce cap on in science class. I do catch the conclusions and they usually break it down to something I can grasp. DVap's blog is very clear.

ECF has actually gotten better as of late. We are now getting some good science behind up what some have been saying for some time. It's a lot easier to have discussions with people when it can be backed up.

Edit: this thread is moving faster then I can type.

Yeh, well, I'm in the other corner. I just keep buggin' 'em until they break it down to kiddy terms where I can understand it .

 

[TaketheRedPill]

The simple fact is, many people need at LEAST 36mg to even start helping their cravings. You blindly refuse to believe this quote]



With the recent advent of 60/100/150mg/ml, maybe some folks are being lulled into a false sense that 36mg is the new low.

36mg/ml was originally produced 'for mixing only, do not use straight'. 18mg was not-so-long-ago considered x-high, 24 xx-high, and still is at many retailers.

Dvap's research has been revisited by another chemist. Most of it was over my head and it was late at nite but I seem to remember 92% recovery in there somewhere. If so, my original wildguestimate of 2x6mg/ml = 12 regular/20 light cigarettes for myself when I started was actually in the ballpark.

We are all trying to help each other. There is nothing wrong with anyone saying, wait a minute, what's going on here with all this cheerleading for very high levels of nicotine? If everybody is also agreeing at the same time that nicotine is just a secondary addiction to the other chemicals in cigarettes, and not as addictive itself as originally thought, why not ask that question? We seem to be using nicotine to get over the addiction to other elements, at which point nicotine becomes useless and a cup of coffee and a 0mg flavorvape much more preferable.

TTRP

 

[Travis798]

The simple fact is, many people need at LEAST 36mg to even start helping their cravings. You blindly refuse to believe this quote]



With the recent advent of 60/100/150mg/ml, maybe some folks are being lulled into a false sense that 36mg is the new low.

36mg/ml was originally produced 'for mixing only, do not use straight'. 18mg was not-so-long-ago considered x-high, 24 xx-high, and still is at many retailers.

Dvap's research has been revisited by another chemist. Most of it was over my head and it was late at nite but I seem to remember 92% recovery in there somewhere. If so, my original wildguestimate of 2x6mg/ml = 12 regular/20 light cigarettes for myself when I started was actually in the ballpark.

We are all trying to help each other. There is nothing wrong with anyone saying, wait a minute, what's going on here with all this cheerleading for very high levels of nicotine? If everybody is also agreeing at the same time that nicotine is just a secondary addiction to the other chemicals in cigarettes, and not as addictive itself as originally thought, why not ask that question? We seem to be using nicotine to get over the addiction to other elements, at which point nicotine becomes useless and a cup of coffee and a 0mg flavorvape much more preferable.

TTRP

The cheerleading for the high nic is because many of us have found that high nic is what we need. Even at 36mg I still feel the "something missing" and by my general attitude I still believe myself to not be getting as much nicotine as from smoking. That said, even if I am using more nicotine to make up for the cravings of the other MAOI's, I say great if it keeps me off the analogs.

The reason we recommend high nic to certain people, is because we know that is the only thing that keeps us off cigs, and if someone is not happy with lower levels, we would rather see them vaping higher nic than going back to analogs.

You won't find me recommending high nic to those that are happy with lower nic, but I will recommend it to someone that is not happy on the lower levels. To not let them know there are other available options rather than going back to analogs would be doing them and vaping a disservice IMHO.

Telling someone that they should be fine on lower nic when they know they are not, and recommending against a nic dosage that would help their cravings, is equivalent to me telling someone that is happy on 16mg that they are craving and just don't know it, and need to jump their nicotine. It would be stupid, as we all know whether our own bodies are craving or not. If you are craving, you obviously need more, if you are not craving, you obviously don't.

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

With the recent advent of 60/100/150mg/ml, maybe some folks are being lulled into a false sense that 36mg is the new low.

36mg/ml was originally produced 'for mixing only, do not use straight'. 18mg was not-so-long-ago considered x-high, 24 xx-high, and still is at many retailers.

Dvap's research has been revisited by another chemist. Most of it was over my head and it was late at nite but I seem to remember 92% recovery in there somewhere. If so, my original wildguestimate of 2x6mg/ml = 12 regular/20 light cigarettes for myself when I started was actually in the ballpark.

We are all trying to help each other. There is nothing wrong with anyone saying, wait a minute, what's going on here with all this cheerleading for very high levels of nicotine? If everybody is also agreeing at the same time that nicotine is just a secondary addiction to the other chemicals in cigarettes, and not as addictive itself as originally thought, why not ask that question? We seem to be using nicotine to get over the addiction to other elements, at which point nicotine becomes useless and a cup of coffee and a 0mg flavorvape much more preferable.

TTRP

No, results on Exo's tests are pending, but the 92% is how much might be inhaled after the atty burn. Not the same as DVap's absorption figures. Apples to oranges at this point. By your figures I'd already be dead from the 75mg/ml I occasionally vape .

 

[Stubby]

Just to add fuel to the fire, but yes, many people are chasing the dragon with high nicotine in search of the other elements in tobacco that are missing in purified nicotine. For many it can never be caught. The other chemicals in tobacco are the other 10% of the alkaloids. It's rather ironic that the type of nicotine used in e-liquid is the same as that in nicotine gum and patches. One of the chemist on the forum said that it's white bread, when what many of us need is whole wheat. I believe DVap has stated that there is a 25% failure rate with e-cigs, and another 25% who struggle. The long range failure rate for those that are struggling will be high.

It makes the issue much more complicated then just "how much nicotine". It's something we have to deal with.



So TV, how are you dealing with the snus? That's the only solution I've found to date.

 

[TaketheRedPill]

No, results on Exo's tests are pending, but the 92% is how much might be inhaled after the atty burn. Not the same as DVap's absorption figures. Apples to oranges at this point. By your figures I'd already be dead from the 75mg/ml I occasionally vape .

thanks, couldn't remember Exo's name . So let's look at this -According to Exo's preliminary work, 92% gets past the atomizer's heat and so is available to be inhaled/absorbed (adsorbed?). If Exo has grossly miscalculated and Dvap's data stands that only 46% gets past the heat, and 46% is absorbed, then that's a different story. I'd seriously be happy with that for everybody. But if Exo is right, and 92% is absorbed, (or, if 46% is absorbed and 46% is exhaled) well, people need to know that, too, so they can go, whoah! At least we have Dvap and Exo hard at work trying to find some independent answers for now and I'm pretty thankful for their research!


TTRP