Charging to 4.1 volts

[My Batt Hurts]

TL;DR: Is it worth getting a charger that can stop at less than 4.2 volts?

I use a fairly dumb nitecore charger for my 18650s. I like to take the batteries out before they reach 4.2 volts, but I don't always get there in time.

- I vape at low power (typically < 10 watts).
- The batteries recharge at 0.5 amps. Speed's not an issue.
- I normally set them aside for recharge when they drop to about 3.6 volts (ish).
- I don't expect them to last forever, and periodically buy new ones - just for the hell of it.

Are posh/ultra flexible chargers worth it?

TIA!

 

[Rossum]

Probably not. The way you're using and charging them, they will last a long time anyway.

 

[Barkuti]

The LiitoKala Lii-100 can be easily voltage or current output modified. See here: How to fix high charge voltage in Liitokala Lii-100 and how to make lower charge currents @ BLF
In essence: stack a 3MΩ 0805 imperial SMD resistor over R5 and that's about it.

Cheers

 

[My Batt Hurts]

Probably not. The way you're using and charging them, they will last a long time anyway.

Excellent!
Thanks.

 

[stols001]

You will be fine. I don't always get to my charges in the nic of time. If I followed every safest battery extension practice of all time, I don't know how I'd do anything else. I mean worthy goal to shoot for and all, but I for one, do not always achieve it.

Anna

 

[My Batt Hurts]

This is sort of what I'd hoped to hear. It's also another wad of cash I can give to Dicodes. Oh goody!

That said, I managed to catch an 18650 at 4.1 volts today, so I guess that's nice.

 

[zoiDman]

TL;DR: Is it worth getting a charger that can stop at less than 4.2 volts?

I use a fairly dumb nitecore charger for my 18650s. I like to take the batteries out before they reach 4.2 volts, but I don't always get there in time.

- I vape at low power (typically < 10 watts).
- The batteries recharge at 0.5 amps. Speed's not an issue.
- I normally set them aside for recharge when they drop to about 3.6 volts (ish).
- I don't expect them to last forever, and periodically buy new ones - just for the hell of it.

Are posh/ultra flexible chargers worth it?

TIA!

Here is a Good Article about Prolonging Battery Life...

https://batteryuniversity.com/index.php/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries

Now is it worth it to Only Charge to 4.1 Volts? I Dunno?

In theory, you would be Extending the Over-All lifespan of the Battery. But for Many People, there comes a Point where the Lifespan one gets from a $7 Battery is fine as is.

I mean, if I used a battery Everyday for a Year of charging to 4.2v, and then it Died, I'd be OK with that. And getting an extra 20 or 30 Days by charging to 4.1v doesn't seem all that critical.

 

[Rossum]

In theory, you would be Extending the Over-All lifespan of the Battery. But for Many People, there comes a Point where the Lifespan one gets from a $7 Battery is fine as is.

I mean, if I used a battery Everyday for a Year of charging to 4.2v, and then it Died, I'd be OK with that. And getting an extra 20 or 30 Days by charging to 4.1v doesn't seem all that critical.

Have you actually had any batteries that "died"? I have some that are pushing 4-1/2 years old that still perform decently, and they were always charged to 4.2V. Now I'm sure that they're not as good as they were when new, but they're not ready for the recycling bin either.

Like the OP, I'm pretty easy on them; I generally vape at 15-20 watts (~0.75Ω on a mech squonker).

 

[zoiDman]

Have you actually had any batteries that "died"? I have some that are pushing 4-1/2 years old that still perform decently, and they were always charged to 4.2V. Now I'm sure that they're not as good as they were when new, but they're not ready for the recycling bin either.

Like the OP, I'm pretty easy on them; I generally vape at 15-20 watts (~0.75Ω on a mech squonker).

I actually have. It was an 18 Month old LG HG2 that was part of a 3 Battery Daily Rotation. So it had about 180 or so Cycles on it.

It just kinda Kacked one day. And the Voltage suddenly dropped. After that, it would Fully charge up. But then it would Self-Discharge in 4 or 5 days when left on its own. Guess it got a Dendrite or something?

I Wasn't really Upset. 180 Cycles @ 4.2v charging and 8 ~ 10 Amp CDR Vaping was Fine. I felt I got my Moneys Worth out it Old #3. And Battery #1 and #2 seem to be going strong.

 

[KurtVD]

In theory, you would be Extending the Over-All lifespan of the Battery.

I think it’s more than a theory: in Tesla cars, the recommended standard setting is to charge to less than 100%, because it’s better for the battery. I don’t know to how much it’s set, but you have to set it up for a full charge if you need the full range, otherwise it will charge to 90 or 95%. They have a lot of data, I’m confident they know why they set it up like that. Obviously, if your battery pack is worth several thousands of $, the stakes are higher...

 

[Barkuti]

I think it’s more than a theory: in Tesla cars, the recommended standard setting is to charge to less than 100%, because it’s better for the battery. …

80% (source: Real damage from full charge? | Tesla).
Of course its just more than theory, it is a fact. I take great care of my batteries. My penultimate smartphone was used for more than 3 years, and already conscious of what we deal with I made the effort to limit its battery charging to 14/15 of its maximum little to no load battery voltage, or about ≈61% maximum average, allowing it to reach 100% very rarely for calibration. Still works and I know its battery has lost a little oomph, but after more than 2K cycles or well above 1K full cycles it is to be understood.

Cheers

 

[KurtVD]

80% (source: Real damage from full charge? | Tesla).
Of course its just more than theory, it is a fact. I take great care of my batteries. My penultimate smartphone was used for more than 3 years, and already conscious of what we deal with I made the effort to limit its battery charging to 14/15 of its maximum little to no load battery voltage, or about ≈61% maximum average, allowing it to reach 100% very rarely for calibration. Still works and I know its battery has lost a little oomph, but after more than 2K cycles or well above 1K full cycles it is to be understood.

Cheers

I was told that you can’t compare cells in different applications 1:1, because they might have a slightly different chemistry (optimised for longevity, f. ex.), but these cells can last for a very long time if properly cared for. The battery pack in my MacBook is five years old, has over 700 full cycles and still 85% of its original capacity, even though I can’t prevent it from charging to 100%.

 

[Rossum]

I think it’s more than a theory: in Tesla cars, the recommended standard setting is to charge to less than 100%, because it’s better for the battery.

I have no doubt it's better for the battery. But does it really matter when we're talking about $6-7 cells?

A colleague of mine has a plug-in hybrid car and we have software that lets us look at the battery management. The battery is a single string of 96 large-format, prismatic Li-ion cells. The car considers them full when the cell voltages are around 4.01-4.02V, and empty when they are around 3.58V. Now it's possible that "full" is lower than it might otherwise be to leave some headroom for recouping energy via regenerative braking even with a "full" charge, but I suspect that it's also heavily influenced by the fact that the battery is warranted for eight years.

 

[Rossum]

The battery pack in my MacBook is five years old, has over 700 full cycles and still 85% of its original capacity, even though I can’t prevent it from charging to 100%.

I suppose one question would be: What cell voltage is "100%"?

 

[zoiDman]

I think it’s more than a theory: ...

I used the term "In Theory" because there are Other Factors that go into what will be the Ultimate Lifespan of a Battery.

It's kinda like if someone said that "In Theory, eating a Bake Potato with dinner can be part of a Healthy Diet. And may help you Lose Weight."

Now, In Theory, that statement can be True.

But if One puts 1/2 a Cube of Butter and a Ginormous Glop of Sour Cream on that Bake Potato, alone with my favorites - Bacon Bits and Chives, then that part about Healthy Diet and Loosing Weight kinda goes out the window.

At least In Theory.

 

[Rossum]

I used the term "In Theory" because there are Other Factors that go into what will be the Ultimate Lifespan of a Battery.

Yep, temperature is a huge factor. Some of the earliest full electric cars like the Tesla Roadster and the Nissan Leaf used air-cooled batteries. These did not age well, especially in hot climates. Now, everyone has gone to liquid cooling.

It's kinda like if someone said that "In Theory, eating a Bake Potato with dinner can be part of a Healthy Diet. And may help you Lose Weight."

Now, In Theory, that statement can be True.

But if One puts 1/2 a Cube of Butter and a Ginormous Glop of Sour Cream on that Bake Potato, alone with my favorites - Bacon Bits and Chives, then that part about Healthy Diet and Loosing Weight kinda goes out the window.

Meh, better just to eat the butter, the sour cream, the bacon bits, and the chives, while skipping the potato's carbs entirely. But I digress.

 

[zoiDman]

Yep, temperature is a huge factor. Some of the earliest full electric cars like the Tesla Roadster and the Nissan Leaf used air-cooled batteries. These did not age well, especially in hot climates. Now, everyone has gone to liquid cooling.


Meh, better just to eat the butter, the sour cream, the bacon bits, and the chives, while skipping the potato's carbs entirely. But I digress.

Absolutely. The Amp CDR one Vapes at also plays a Big Role also. Just as how far Down one drains the Voltage before they Charge.

I have a Friend and their Son vapes at Very High Amp Loads. At, or sometimes above, the Batteries CDR Rating. He goes thru Batteries very Quickly.

---

I tend to see a Baked Potato sometimes as a mere Vehicle for the Butter/Sour Cream/Bacon Bit/Chives. That is why I will sometimes Hull out the Potato and just use the Skins.

That way I don't get Filled Up on just Starch.