Catholics were the first to interpret the Bible on a wide scale but the Greek and Aramaic texts are still available and the NIV Bible non-Catholic Christians use is translated from that - not the Catholic interpretations.
-
Need help from former MFS (MyFreedomSmokes) customers
Has any found a supplier or company that has tobacco e-juice like or very similar to MFS Turbosmog, Tall Paul, or Red Luck?
View thread
Christianity vs Catholicism
- Thread starter gashin
- Start date
- th_trl_thread_readers 0
-
- Tags
- chase revolution
- Status
The problem is - the Catholic church does hinder and at times oppose Jesus' and the apostles' teachings. They openly make the base-less claim that you can pray to God via Mary and the Saints when Jesus and the apostles all said that only through Christ can people be saved. Also, the Catholic Church emphasizes the authority of a human organization while the Bible clearly teaches that only God has the authority to determine what is right or wrong. Finally, it marginalizes Jesus' death for our Salvation by teaching that you can't enter God's kingdom unless you are baptized, confessed, married, confirmed, and perform the last rites in the Catholic Church - isn't this an open challenge to Jesus' teachings? I think that many Catholics do not really believe in papal infallibility and the authority of the Catholic Church because deep down they have their doubts about a religion that contradicts the Bible - one good example I have is when my 8th grade teacher, a Catholic nun for nearly 30 years at that point, told the entire class that she might be wrong in being Catholic, and that it is only because of faith in the Church does she still follow its doctrines.
I agree with you that the Bible is written in consideration of promoting faith - but there is really nothing extra that really hinders the few teachings of Jesus while he taught his apostles that only through their words, which included the writing of the Gospels and letters, and actions (i.e. healing through faith in Jesus) could people become faithful. But there are still several points of history in the New Testament that do match those of third-party historians of the time which is what made me believe.
Yeah it's just Catholics (and even Christians) trying to deny that Hitler still incorporated and used Christian references to achieve his political aims and justify his words and actions.
The purpose is to achieve a personal relationship with God and to live eternal life in his kingdom. That is accomplished through faith in God's compassion - because we are all sinners and we can never be perfect people no matter how hard we try.
Here is one problem with atheism that eventually turned me back to faith - atheists simply provide no comprehensive answer to the problems of social and personal conflict while attempting to displace the Bible and belief in God that do address most of life's issues. How can a book, written thousands of years ago, still be relevant today? It has to have been divinely inspired in its depth of intellectualism. Jesus did not teach social conservatism, but rather social revolution in which sin is accepted as being normal while sinners are still offered Salvation through Christ's death.
I was recently a Zen practitioner and it was during one long meditation that I finally really believed in God. I completely disassociated from my body and all human concepts - I was able to view the world from a completely objective manner lacking any prejudice between objects, and between objects and subjects. What I discovered was that without any form of morality and distinction among different phenomena - the world is truly empty and without meaning with no moral basis for living. It was a frightening experience because I realized that without any source of moral authority, we would have nothing to really judge our actions and that our lives meant nothing. After a few hours in this state, I finally began analyzing a subjective world without a God and ended up attempting to become the sole source of morality in my mind - what I ended up with was an egotistical, selfish, and jealous entity that endlessly consumed to achieve an unachievable happiness. I couldn't comprehend an action done beyond serving the self but at the same time, I realized that there was no action that would really make me happy without causing other living beings to suffer and that true compassion for all cannot arise from the human mind. After this, I started meditating on God and realized that just by believing, I gained much more control over my human weaknesses and realized the importance of self-less service to others and to a higher power in achieving true happiness and staisfaction. It was an enlightening experience because I really understood how God does help us on a psychological and spiritual level. I know that the atheists are going to say that I just satisfied a need for order and absolute authority but I cannot understand how they can claim that they can replace God with humanism when we all have this weakness to sin when we lack a divine base and when faith really does direct us in the right direction for our survival and happiness. It was after this realization that I actually read the Bible and learned that it is very comprehensive in addressing all our weaknesses while providing a logical solution to personal and social suffering and this confirmed what I had gained in my meditation.
Here is one problem with atheism that eventually turned me back to faith - atheists simply provide no comprehensive answer to the problems of social and personal conflict while attempting to displace the Bible and belief in God that do address most of life's issues. How can a book, written thousands of years ago, still be relevant today? It has to have been divinely inspired in its depth of intellectualism. Jesus did not teach social conservatism, but rather social revolution in which sin is accepted as being normal while sinners are still offered Salvation through Christ's death.
I was recently a Zen practitioner and it was during one long meditation that I finally really believed in God. I completely disassociated from my body and all human concepts - I was able to view the world from a completely objective manner lacking any prejudice between objects, and between objects and subjects. What I discovered was that without any form of morality and distinction among different phenomena - the world is truly empty and without meaning with no moral basis for living. It was a frightening experience because I realized that without any source of moral authority, we would have nothing to really judge our actions and that our lives meant nothing. After a few hours in this state, I finally began analyzing a subjective world without a God and ended up attempting to become the sole source of morality in my mind - what I ended up with was an egotistical, selfish, and jealous entity that endlessly consumed to achieve an unachievable happiness. I couldn't comprehend an action done beyond serving the self but at the same time, I realized that there was no action that would really make me happy without causing other living beings to suffer and that true compassion for all cannot arise from the human mind. After this, I started meditating on God and realized that just by believing, I gained much more control over my human weaknesses and realized the importance of self-less service to others and to a higher power in achieving true happiness and staisfaction. It was an enlightening experience because I really understood how God does help us on a psychological and spiritual level. I know that the atheists are going to say that I just satisfied a need for order and absolute authority but I cannot understand how they can claim that they can replace God with humanism when we all have this weakness to sin when we lack a divine base and when faith really does direct us in the right direction for our survival and happiness. It was after this realization that I actually read the Bible and learned that it is very comprehensive in addressing all our weaknesses while providing a logical solution to personal and social suffering and this confirmed what I had gained in my meditation.
gashin will you STOP with the BS lies!! None of what you say is true. One example of your BS is that the Church does NOT teach they you have to be married to enter heaven, or confirmed or have the last rites.
There is a group that still existes in this country who believes and spread lies like you do. They hate Catholics, Jews and Blacks. Most of them consider themselves good little Christians, like you. They are called the Klu Klux ..... You would fit right in.
"Can. 1086 §1. A marriage between two persons, one of whom has been baptized in the Catholic Church or received into it and has not defected from it by a formal act and the other of whom is not baptized, is invalid."
Code of Canon Law - IntraText
So if they consider a marriage between a Catholic and non-Catholic to be invalid, what do you think they think of non-Catholics marrying? The Catholic Church teaches that pre-marital sex is a mortal sin.
Hmm...
"Can. 998 The anointing of the sick, by which the Church commends the faithful who are dangerously ill to the suVering and glorified Lord in order that he relieve and save them, is conferred by anointing them with oil and pronouncing the words prescribed in the liturgical books."
Seems that only through anointing of the dying by a Catholic priest, can Jesus relieve and save them.
*Yawn*
"Can. 841 Since the sacraments are the same for the whole Church and belong to the divine deposit, it is only for the supreme authority of the Church to approve or define the requirements for their validity; it is for the same or another competent authority according to the norm of ⇒ can. 838 §§3 and 4 to decide what pertains to their licit celebration, administration, and reception and to the order to be observed in their celebration.
Can. 842 §1. A person who has not received baptism cannot be admitted validly to the other sacraments.
§2. The sacraments of baptism, confirmation, and the Most Holy Eucharist are interrelated in such a way that they are required for full Christian initiation."
"Can. 959 In the sacrament of penance the faithful who confess their sins to a legitimate minister, are sorry for them, and intend to reform themselves obtain from God through the absolution imparted by the same minister forgiveness for the sins they have committed after baptism and, at the same, time are reconciled with the Church which they have wounded by sinning."
This stuff is pretty funny:
From catechism of the catholic Church:
"36 "Our holy mother, the Church, holds and teaches that God, the first principle and last end of all things, can be known with certainty from the created world by the natural light of human reason."11 Without this capacity, man would not be able to welcome God's revelation. Man has this capacity because he is created "in the image of God".12"
"48 We really can name God, starting from the manifold perfections of his creatures, which are likenesses of the infinitely perfect God, even if our limited language cannot exhaust the mystery."
Completely opposes the Bible's teaching that God is too great for us to understand....
"613 To die in mortal sin without repenting and accepting God's merciful love means remaining separated from him for ever by our own free choice. This state of definitive self-exclusion from communion with God and the blessed is called "hell."
Hmm... so the Catholic Church is the sole source for what is considered to be mortal sin and that only through Catholic confession and last rites can people be free from mortal sin and enter into heaven....
"1054 Those who die in God's grace and friendship imperfectly purified, although they are assured of their eternal salvation, undergo a purification after death, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of God."
Wow - I didn't know the Catholic Church had the authority to make up things not found in the Bible.
And strange that they contradict their own teachings in the same paragraph:
"1035 The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, "eternal fire."617 The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs."
So they teach that if you die with mortal sin you will immediately go to hell, but if God likes you and you die with a mortal sin you go to purgatory - what?
Catechism of the Catholic Church - PART 1 SECTION 1 CHAPTER 1
Code of Canon Law - IntraText
So if they consider a marriage between a Catholic and non-Catholic to be invalid, what do you think they think of non-Catholics marrying? The Catholic Church teaches that pre-marital sex is a mortal sin.
Hmm...
"Can. 998 The anointing of the sick, by which the Church commends the faithful who are dangerously ill to the suVering and glorified Lord in order that he relieve and save them, is conferred by anointing them with oil and pronouncing the words prescribed in the liturgical books."
Seems that only through anointing of the dying by a Catholic priest, can Jesus relieve and save them.
*Yawn*
"Can. 841 Since the sacraments are the same for the whole Church and belong to the divine deposit, it is only for the supreme authority of the Church to approve or define the requirements for their validity; it is for the same or another competent authority according to the norm of ⇒ can. 838 §§3 and 4 to decide what pertains to their licit celebration, administration, and reception and to the order to be observed in their celebration.
Can. 842 §1. A person who has not received baptism cannot be admitted validly to the other sacraments.
§2. The sacraments of baptism, confirmation, and the Most Holy Eucharist are interrelated in such a way that they are required for full Christian initiation."
"Can. 959 In the sacrament of penance the faithful who confess their sins to a legitimate minister, are sorry for them, and intend to reform themselves obtain from God through the absolution imparted by the same minister forgiveness for the sins they have committed after baptism and, at the same, time are reconciled with the Church which they have wounded by sinning."
This stuff is pretty funny:
From catechism of the catholic Church:
"36 "Our holy mother, the Church, holds and teaches that God, the first principle and last end of all things, can be known with certainty from the created world by the natural light of human reason."11 Without this capacity, man would not be able to welcome God's revelation. Man has this capacity because he is created "in the image of God".12"
"48 We really can name God, starting from the manifold perfections of his creatures, which are likenesses of the infinitely perfect God, even if our limited language cannot exhaust the mystery."
Completely opposes the Bible's teaching that God is too great for us to understand....
"613 To die in mortal sin without repenting and accepting God's merciful love means remaining separated from him for ever by our own free choice. This state of definitive self-exclusion from communion with God and the blessed is called "hell."
Hmm... so the Catholic Church is the sole source for what is considered to be mortal sin and that only through Catholic confession and last rites can people be free from mortal sin and enter into heaven....
"1054 Those who die in God's grace and friendship imperfectly purified, although they are assured of their eternal salvation, undergo a purification after death, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of God."
Wow - I didn't know the Catholic Church had the authority to make up things not found in the Bible.
And strange that they contradict their own teachings in the same paragraph:
"1035 The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, "eternal fire."617 The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs."
So they teach that if you die with mortal sin you will immediately go to hell, but if God likes you and you die with a mortal sin you go to purgatory - what?
Catechism of the Catholic Church - PART 1 SECTION 1 CHAPTER 1
Last edited:
Gashin, your type of Christian, with the self-righteous hate speech is the reason why so many are intolerant of religion.
If you are an example of what God wants in his people then I'll gladly tell God to kiss my ..... He wouldn't be worthy.
If you are an example of what God wants in his people then I'll gladly tell God to kiss my ..... He wouldn't be worthy.
So if a "Christian" church teaches that it has an authority on matters of faith comparable with God, and has doctrines that openly contradict Jesus' teachings based on.... nothing, I'm intolerant for criticizing it? I'm not the one claiming that you're doomed to go to hell unless you're Catholic.
Probably anything he told me to do - but then there's that higher probability that it's a false prophet that'll cause world-wide destruction in the name of religion.
We don't nail people to trees anymore, but I could get him some nine inch nails and get him stoned.
I have not seen any evidence from gashin that his posts are hateful. On the contrary.
Jesus was right when He said that the son will go against the father, brother against brother, neighbor against neighbor. You see, the teachings of Jesus do OFFEND many. They offend many because the many cannot accept his message, nor believe that he is the Messiah. This is the division he speaks of. So if gashin or myself or anyone else speaks this truth, then will people be offended, and in their defense say we are hateful.
Peace
WOW - That is a really odd experience - Also exceptional - Not even most monks attain a state of loss of self for a few hours - This is a state that normally comes in very brief glimpses until enlightenment is attained - It usually takes somewhere on the order of 10,000 hours of practice to gain the ability to hold such a state for "several hours"- My master had over 10,000 hours practice and the most he could maintain it was 30 minutes - 1 hour or so - Even when one attains enlightenment one does not remain in this state for such long periods of time - It is not possible to stay of this Earth and not have a self - - Most who attain true enlightenment will crossover - I have known a few who simply drifted away like that - If you choose to remain you become a Bodhisattva - An enlightened teacher - Not even Budhha himself remained in a state of oneness for hours at a time - It is simply not possible without drifting away - The connection to the Earth and self must be maintatined if you intend to remain -
I do not think you did what you think you did - Sounds to me like you were thinking about it subjectively - Not experiencing it - I have been in the state of no self for 4-5 minutes at a time and the feeling I get is one of total pure energy and oneness - Happiness is a subjective state and a function of the mind not the spirit - The ONENESS simply IS - It is neither happy nor sad - It is not moral or without morals - The world is what you perceive it to be - I'm not trying to insult you - I'm just telling you that I do not think you were properly trained and I do not think you experienced a true connection to the oneness or a true loss of self - As you said - You analyzed and sought to find morals in your self - You can not be in a state of NO SELF - If you are searching yourself for morality - That is a huge contradiction - You say you were "recently a Zen practitioner" - Then earlier you said you were an Atheist until last month - Now you are Christian again - You sound like you are bouncing around trying to figure things out which is admirable and human - I'm just really curious - How long were you a Zen Practitioner? - Did you have guidence? - Or did you just meditate a few times before you went back to Atheist/Cathloic /Christian? When I claim to have experienced these things through meditation I am talking about a life long practice that began when I was 9 under the training of a master until I was 19 and then on my own until present - I'm 44 now - I have many thousands of hours of practice and I help teach those who ask me - I always tell people it may take 3-4 years before you glimpse the ONENESS - Meditation is not something you can dabble in and then speak as if you know it - The thing I have learned most is that I have still have a lot to learn and I do not claim to be a master - still - Even masters often comment on how little they know - What you describe does not sound at all like a connection to the oneness and most definitely exhibits no loss of self -
Last edited:
Seems to me he just came to some absolute realizations, and in the world of relativistic humanism, that just don't jibe. Bones doesn't believe in anything absolute, its all relative connected subjective. I don't debate the connection, just the level of connectivity to the Creator and his antithesis. Your choices move you towards one or the other. So kudos to you for picking a side Gashin, but be careful running before you learn to walk. Paul talks about spiritual babes needing milk, before they eat of the food. Of course you obviously aren't a new convert just a recommitted, so you dont have to start all over just pick up where you left off with a whole lot more context and experience to draw from. Its going to offend all the ones who say they can't know if someone says they do know. Of course they cannot know, they have no absolute foundations outside their own subjective perspective, even with big mind and loss of self. But our foundation is in Jesus, who did know, and proved it. I dont see where Buddha or Mohammed did that. But maybe get some more credentials on the knowing part as If you say I KNOW THIS, some will test you on other things which you have nothing on(note the pharisees in the NT questioning Jesus authority). The real point of Christ's was the ultimate sacrificing of one's ego for selfless compassion, emptying yourself of yourself and becoming a vessel. And cognitive emotion experiments are backing up that this way of life does indeed change our very dna into something that can affect the corporeal world we live in.
Don't hate on all the Catholic believers either. The apostle Paul wrote in Romans 8:27-28, “He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He intercedes for the saints according to the will of God. And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.” Mind the last part. I have known of many good catholics, and more not so good, but it isn't our place to judge. Padre Pio along with many other catholic figures have done great miracles and weren't doing it for the Church. My mother's mentor was a born-again Catholic with a personal relationship with Jesus. She died of terminal brain cancer with the most grace and peace I have ever seen. That is the point, a living breathing relationship with God through Jesus. Salvation is the starting point, the rest of it is growth and maturation in your relationship with Him. Fellowship with other believers, personal bible study, praise and worship, these are all important keys in really growing as a Christian. You still get to goto heaven once saved as the Bible says you are sealed by the Spirit upon salvation, but beyond that there is more, infinitely more.
Interestingly enough prayer as its understood today isn't the prayer of biblical times, looking at the Hebrew word for prayer it was chanting/meditating, and there is corroboration that early christians did this in sunday service as well before the Bible was canonized(Pliny the Younger wrote of this). So keep on praying, just keep your focus. Several 14th century Christian mystics wrote of beautiful things that will entice but ensnare you if you choose to travel such a path carelessly. The Spirit gives us discernment, so let it be your guide, and don't forget the 5 piece armor suit before you go plane tripping. The mind can make real what is not physically there, and psychoses have been documented. Once you tread in the noncorporeal realm physics go out the window. But I wish you the best brother, from one crazy Jesus loving guy to another.
Don't hate on all the Catholic believers either. The apostle Paul wrote in Romans 8:27-28, “He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He intercedes for the saints according to the will of God. And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.” Mind the last part. I have known of many good catholics, and more not so good, but it isn't our place to judge. Padre Pio along with many other catholic figures have done great miracles and weren't doing it for the Church. My mother's mentor was a born-again Catholic with a personal relationship with Jesus. She died of terminal brain cancer with the most grace and peace I have ever seen. That is the point, a living breathing relationship with God through Jesus. Salvation is the starting point, the rest of it is growth and maturation in your relationship with Him. Fellowship with other believers, personal bible study, praise and worship, these are all important keys in really growing as a Christian. You still get to goto heaven once saved as the Bible says you are sealed by the Spirit upon salvation, but beyond that there is more, infinitely more.
Interestingly enough prayer as its understood today isn't the prayer of biblical times, looking at the Hebrew word for prayer it was chanting/meditating, and there is corroboration that early christians did this in sunday service as well before the Bible was canonized(Pliny the Younger wrote of this). So keep on praying, just keep your focus. Several 14th century Christian mystics wrote of beautiful things that will entice but ensnare you if you choose to travel such a path carelessly. The Spirit gives us discernment, so let it be your guide, and don't forget the 5 piece armor suit before you go plane tripping. The mind can make real what is not physically there, and psychoses have been documented. Once you tread in the noncorporeal realm physics go out the window. But I wish you the best brother, from one crazy Jesus loving guy to another.
Hey AZ -
You keep saying that about me - It is you who say that - I do see absolutes - Just not when it comes to a personal perspective - That is the definition of a personal perspective - Things change depending on how you look at them - Or who is doing the looking - There are most definitely things which are absolute - You kept not understanding me on that no matter how I tried to explain - Please don't speak for me - When I meditate I am not using perception - I am experiencing objectively - That is a very different subject - Before we were talking on an intellectual level about perception based in SELF - I have never said it is not possible to KNOW - I have said it is impossible to EXPRESS what you know - Once you do you bring the problems of intellect, self and perception into it and you are seldom ever understood - It is not possible to impart these types of Knowledge through words - This is why I can not make it clear to you - It is not possible to communicate it in that way - And my mistake was in trying - This is why much of what we have of Buddha's teachings are not from Buddha - They are primarily from his students trying to explain things that should not and do not go into words - Buddha only taught how to seek - Not what he found - He only gave the most basic clues needed to show the path to finding the truths -
I heard a good comparison of the prayer/mediation thing once - I forget where -"Prayer is talking to God - Meditating is Listening to God"
One can not express clearly what one hears from God to someone else - You must hear it first hand - The message is not the same for all - Though that does NOT rule out absolutes - It only points to different levels of growth from one to another - I do not doubt that Gashin finds truth in HIS answers but it is not my truth and mine is not his - Please do not tell me that Jesus' students were able to clearly deliver his message either - If that were true then there would not be so much disagreement among Christians - It would be clear and this thread would not exist - Also - Buddha and Jesus are not opposites or in competition - There is no "picking a side" They complement each other on many levels - I have expressed before that I find it highly probable that Buddha's teachings (which preceeded Jesus') would have been available to the early Christians and Jews before them - There was trade and communication between the two cultures and there was 600 years for the word to travel - It would be foolish to think there was not crossover there -
Haha I really believe that he may have been divinely stoned when he first came - his teachings were too anti-establishment to be really constructions of a power-hungry authority.
Exactly! And this is why Christians are still being persecuted today - the message of Christ is offensive to our cultural ideals of moral relativity and tolerance of even harmful ideologies.
I've been practicing for almost 3 years now and have studied mostly introductory books on Zen - I can really focus my mind (and for some reason I think that my racing hobby has really helped me in this aspect). This was my longest meditation session ever - around 5 hours and I was really able to escape the ego. I think it's really a matter of how separated you are from your self in the first place - I've always been very anti-materialistic (so much so that I used to go without showers and clean clothes for weeks) I guess because of my boredom with my upper-middle class upbringing. I think that many Zen practictioners who come from an impoverished background are at a disadvantage in this respect - their deprivation from luxury still causes a sub-conscious yearning to experience excess materialism. I did retain this state for nearly 3 hours, and I did feel like my physical body was dying on this earth but this could just be a realization of the impermanence of our bodies while at the same time, I completely lost all discrimination between objects and observer (an embarassing case in point - when I went to urinate there was no difference between my organ and the urine and my hand and I ended up making a huge mess that I didn't clean up until I returned to my ego - luckily the other person home at the time was asleep ). Before I went to pee, I was in this weird state where I didn't have any memories or identity and I had no motivation to do anything but sit and observe - there was no emotion or thought. I tried to stand up but sat right back down again because there was really no point in doing anything. My concept of time and distance was non-existent and when I tried to stand up and walk, I ended up just staying still once I took a step and just observed. When I was coming back to my ego, that's when I started making greater realizations of the motivations behind all of our actions - I learned that we consume only to maintain our physical beings and I viewed happiness and the lack of it (suffering) as an energy force that we try to increase to a positive quantity through our relationships and materialism in the belief that we need to do so in order to maintain our consciousness. I didn't really care about my own physical survival at this point because I simply wasn't there - I had no identity, no concepts of right or wrong, and no prejudice between objects. It was after about an hour in this state that I slowly returned to my ego and began experiencing the selfish morality I explained above. I wanted to maintain my physical survival but I thought that only through causing suffering of others could I achieve happiness. I also viewed other beings with extreme hostility - I thought that they themselves were using me just to fulfill their own needs for happiness and that they were pressuring me to consume to be happy in order that they also feel happiness. Then I turned to the concept of God and realized that God and belief are a stabilizing source of enlightenment and morality that contain the damaging aspects of our ego. I realized that God does exist - and that we cannot have come to the realization of an absolute prejudice between right and wrong without divine interference. I've been practicing Zen buddhism for nearly 3 years and have been an Atheist for 8 years so I cannot really say that I've been bouncing because this experience shocked my psyche into the existence of the divine. I do believe that I did experience the one-ness of all things before my realization of God - if I couldn't discriminate between my urine and organ and had no memories/identity or even motivation to even stand up, I don't think that there was any ego present and it was during the gradual return to my ego that I made my discoveries about morality and God. I do think you're wrong Bones about the necessity of formal teaching or of years of experience and of enlightenment - I think that circumstances play a far greater role and that my up-bringing and state (I also forgot to mention that I had been water fasting for 20 hours and was sleep deprived for nearly 24 hours) allowed me to experience the world without prejudice for several hours. I also think that because I was able to escape my ego for so long that I was able to realize God - because I wasn't searching for anything in the first place.
). Before I went to pee, I was in this weird state where I didn't have any memories or identity and I had no motivation to do anything but sit and observe - there was no emotion or thought. I tried to stand up but sat right back down again because there was really no point in doing anything. My concept of time and distance was non-existent and when I tried to stand up and walk, I ended up just staying still once I took a step and just observed. When I was coming back to my ego, that's when I started making greater realizations of the motivations behind all of our actions - I learned that we consume only to maintain our physical beings and I viewed happiness and the lack of it (suffering) as an energy force that we try to increase to a positive quantity through our relationships and materialism in the belief that we need to do so in order to maintain our consciousness. I didn't really care about my own physical survival at this point because I simply wasn't there - I had no identity, no concepts of right or wrong, and no prejudice between objects. It was after about an hour in this state that I slowly returned to my ego and began experiencing the selfish morality I explained above. I wanted to maintain my physical survival but I thought that only through causing suffering of others could I achieve happiness. I also viewed other beings with extreme hostility - I thought that they themselves were using me just to fulfill their own needs for happiness and that they were pressuring me to consume to be happy in order that they also feel happiness. Then I turned to the concept of God and realized that God and belief are a stabilizing source of enlightenment and morality that contain the damaging aspects of our ego. I realized that God does exist - and that we cannot have come to the realization of an absolute prejudice between right and wrong without divine interference. I've been practicing Zen buddhism for nearly 3 years and have been an Atheist for 8 years so I cannot really say that I've been bouncing because this experience shocked my psyche into the existence of the divine. I do believe that I did experience the one-ness of all things before my realization of God - if I couldn't discriminate between my urine and organ and had no memories/identity or even motivation to even stand up, I don't think that there was any ego present and it was during the gradual return to my ego that I made my discoveries about morality and God. I do think you're wrong Bones about the necessity of formal teaching or of years of experience and of enlightenment - I think that circumstances play a far greater role and that my up-bringing and state (I also forgot to mention that I had been water fasting for 20 hours and was sleep deprived for nearly 24 hours) allowed me to experience the world without prejudice for several hours. I also think that because I was able to escape my ego for so long that I was able to realize God - because I wasn't searching for anything in the first place.
Last edited:
I do consider myself to be a new convert - my years as a Catholic were more of a belief in the rules of the Church as being necessary to achieve Salvation than in really believing in God. You're right though - the atheists here have never read the Bible in its entirety (and I only read the New Testament in-depth recently) which is why they are making claims that a God cannot be known. I like your analogy about being an empty vessel - it really does exemplify how Jesus' teachings are the right way in that he taught us how loving one another is the only true way to God, and how Buddhism and Islam get it wrong, with Buddhism teaching that we must lose our ego to achieve selfish freedom from suffering while ignoring the suffering of others, and Muslims believing that God wants us to sacrifice our ego and humanity just to serve God. I don't hate Catholics - I hate the Catholic Church because it attempts to assume the authority about what God wants and who God will save. Their doctrines explicitly say to obey and worship the Church's teachings or die. They teach that they are the only way to God's Kingdom when Jesus explicitly says that only he is the mediator.
- Status
Similar threads
