I am wondering why i see listings in the Classifieds section with Clones listed but then youll see some that have been deleted while others are still listed? Could someone explain this to me?
Classifieds with Clones?
- Thread starter skittles2978
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Not sure but you can list a clone as long as it doesn't have the same markings and serial #s like the original.
Believe it or not, I have done that and they still deleted it, So someone has a different opinion of a clone i guess, lol..SMH at whoever thought this up..lol
Stating it is a clone does not make something that is a counterfeit acceptable.
This might help...
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-guidelines-updated-often-without-notice.html
16. Counterfeit products will not be allowed to be sold on ECF, no matter if the item is described as such or not (see definitions below). Items being sold should never be misrepresented, for example listing a counterfeit product as the authentic product. Members found knowingly misrepresenting a cloned device as authentic WILL lose their Verified Member status and may risk being banned from ECF. Ads found listing a counterfeit product will be closed and member advised of violation.
Unacceptable
Counterfeit - Counterfeits will basically be an exact replica of the original and not so much tied to the shape as it is more the markings. The shape would come into play if there are unique characteristics of the device. This can include grooves, cutouts, coloring, or trademarks in specific locations.
Acceptable
Clone - Can be similar in size, shape, and even design but will not contain the same markings or colors. As long as the device can be distinguished as different from the original, not just by the word clone, it will be considered a clone. Just by declaring a device a clone in it's title or description will not necessarily make it a clone. The clone device should be absent of all characteristics contained in the original, grooves, cutouts, coloring, or trademarks.
**As long as the device can be distinguished as different from the original, not just by the word clone, it will be considered a clone.
Now, if they are there and active, they haven't been seen or reported.
If you see them, you need to be reporting them with the triangle at the bottom of the first post.
Moved to Site Feedback and Help
This might help...
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-guidelines-updated-often-without-notice.html
16. Counterfeit products will not be allowed to be sold on ECF, no matter if the item is described as such or not (see definitions below). Items being sold should never be misrepresented, for example listing a counterfeit product as the authentic product. Members found knowingly misrepresenting a cloned device as authentic WILL lose their Verified Member status and may risk being banned from ECF. Ads found listing a counterfeit product will be closed and member advised of violation.
Unacceptable
Counterfeit - Counterfeits will basically be an exact replica of the original and not so much tied to the shape as it is more the markings. The shape would come into play if there are unique characteristics of the device. This can include grooves, cutouts, coloring, or trademarks in specific locations.
Acceptable
Clone - Can be similar in size, shape, and even design but will not contain the same markings or colors. As long as the device can be distinguished as different from the original, not just by the word clone, it will be considered a clone. Just by declaring a device a clone in it's title or description will not necessarily make it a clone. The clone device should be absent of all characteristics contained in the original, grooves, cutouts, coloring, or trademarks.
**As long as the device can be distinguished as different from the original, not just by the word clone, it will be considered a clone.
Now, if they are there and active, they haven't been seen or reported.
If you see them, you need to be reporting them with the triangle at the bottom of the first post.
Moved to Site Feedback and Help
Not trying to be nit picky here, just want to make sure I understand what is what. The "grooves, cutouts, coloring" is a bit confusing. I imagine the point is to not have markings, I'm thinking artwork or anything that might be considered a trademark, on it that might enable someone to pass the device off as an original.
So if I have a Nemesis clone without the angel, the train or any text on it ('By Atmomixani' in this case) is this OK to sell in the classies? It would still have identical grooves (between parts) and cutouts (identical part shapes and openings) of the original and if the material would be either brass or SS it would have the same color of the original.
Your example would probably be ok. The 1st key is, as you mentioned, logos & markings, that should be obvious. The 2nd key is a little more difficult to pinpoint, and is similar to something the Supreme Court once said (paraphrased) "I can't define it, but I know it when I see it". Essentially, it's referring to unique shapes and properties in the design. If you look at it and think, "That's a Nemesis", because of the shape/colors/grooves (not gaps, but etched grooves), then that's not a clone. But if it's similar, and not exact, and you think "Kind of looks like a Nemesis, works like a Nemesis, but obviously not", then it's probably a clone.
If you're ever not sure, you can ask j0ker, classwife, or myself.
I hope this helps!
It would be nice if the definition was solidly defined, but I understand.
Thanks
Joker has tried to define/redefine this this issue more than once. See here: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/member-classifieds-swaps/366198-classifieds-blog-2.html#post10528527 and here: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/member-classifieds-swaps/366198-classifieds-blog-2.html#post11299950
The bottom line (I think) is the question of is the device meant to deceive. A counterfeit is defined as having markings, serial numbers etc. the same as an original that make you believe you are buying something that you are not. That isn't allowed. A clone may function the same, but there are obvious differences in the materials, markings (or lack thereof) etc. that make it stand out as being different from the original design. Those are ok.
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Shape can come into play too, if it's unique/specific. Very generic shape would be a clone, otherwise might be a counterfeit.
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