Clones Clones Clones...tired of it

[Jman8]

I think the problem lies in the fact that they don't seem to even try to protect their work.

I'm thinking that's not where the problem lies. Once an original exists, it ought to be afforded reasonable protection. Like copying media. Very easy to do. No costs to originator in today's world to make copies, and thus copycatting is very easy. Can share pretty much anything, and no profit needs to be made. Freely share it with everyone. Originator might not like that, but oh well. Problem is with them if they don't seem to even try to protect their work.

Or like the store example from earlier. If they make it so easy to steal from them, then we (who commit the theft) could just argue that if they really didn't want it stolen, they would've protected it better. Because they didn't and because we are not deceiving anyone we share it with where we got it from then it's all good all the way around. Clearly there is a market for it.

 

[smacuser]

...must not drunk post...

 

[Bad Ninja]

I'm thinking that's not where the problem lies. Once an original exists, it ought to be afforded reasonable protection. Like copying media. Very easy to do. No costs to originator in today's world to make copies, and thus copycatting is very easy. Can share pretty much anything, and no profit needs to be made. Freely share it with everyone. Originator might not like that, but oh well. Problem is with them if they don't seem to even try to protect their work.

Or like the store example from earlier. If they make it so easy to steal from them, then we (who commit the theft) could just argue that if they really didn't want it stolen, they would've protected it better. Because they didn't and because we are not deceiving anyone we share it with where we got it from then it's all good all the way around. Clearly there is a market for it.

So you feel it's all the consumers fault, yes?

Which mods do you consider original?

 

[Yiana]

Diacetyl!!!

Will I get popcorn tongue?

 

[Bad Ninja]

...must not drunk post...

Why not?
It's the weekend.

 

[Yiana]

It's the consumer's fault?

 

[smokinGAVIN]

I'm thinking that's not where the problem lies. Once an original exists, it ought to be afforded reasonable protection. Like copying media. Very easy to do. No costs to originator in today's world to make copies, and thus copycatting is very easy. Can share pretty much anything, and no profit needs to be made. Freely share it with everyone. Originator might not like that, but oh well. Problem is with them if they don't seem to even try to protect their work.

Or like the store example from earlier. If they make it so easy to steal from them, then we (who commit the theft) could just argue that if they really didn't want it stolen, they would've protected it better. Because they didn't and because we are not deceiving anyone we share it with where we got it from then it's all good all the way around. Clearly there is a market for it.

Don't get me wrong. I am still pro authentic all the way but if they protected their work then clones may have a harder time penetrating the market. I don't know about being afforded reasonable protection and legalities than come with it but maybe they can do it the way tech companies do it. Protect their designs first before showing the public their product.

 

[smacuser]

Why not?
cant get thr meme to post

lololololol

 

[Bad Ninja]

Don't get me wrong. I am still pro authentic all the way but if they protected their work then clones may have a harder time penetrating the market. I don't know about being afforded reasonable protection and legalities than come with it but maybe they can do it the way tech companies do it. Protect their designs first before showing the public their product.

That's how every normal business does it.
Modding business apparently operates in Bizzaro world.


Oh, and they cannot actually get a utility patent on a mech mod.
No one can.
They can protect their logo.
But that would require them to actually register it, and be legit.

 

[smokinGAVIN]

That's how every normal business does it.
Modding business apparently operates in Bizzaro world.


Oh, and they cannot actually get a utility patent on a mech mod.
No one can.
They can protect their logo.
But that would require them to actually register it, and be legit.

Is there such a thing as a design patent or trade dress patent in your side of the world?

 

[scylla]

I will continue to buy and use clones until I find a tank or whatever that lives up to the hype and produces a dependable vape. When I find that good, no PITA vape tool, then, and only then, will authentics get my money.
I have been at it too long and have been disappointed too many times by pie-in-the-sky promises.

 

[Bad Ninja]

Is there such a thing as a design patent or trade dress patent in your side of the world?

The overall design of basically every mech is primitive, and no one can prove it's theirs because it's a flashlight.
The first mechanical mods were modified flashlights.
No one can meet the requirements for a patent.

A company could trademark their logo. And some modders have.
They have also used it to successfully remove clones from the market.

The Hana dna40 clones were available for about a month before Hana sent out letters and Chinese retail sites pulled the listings.

Same with the GP mech mods.
They even ground the logos off existing tubes.

Most modders don't even have a business lisc or phone number.

When do they get to take some responsibility?

 

[Bad Ninja]

I will continue to buy and use clones until I find a tank or whatever that lives up to the hype and produces a dependable vape. When I find that good, no PITA vape tool, then, and only then, will authentics get my money.
I have been at it too long and have been disappointed too many times by pie-in-the-sky promises.

I've been having great luck with the Bellus as far as a tank. Well worth the $30.
But it's an authentic.

 

[smokinGAVIN]

Most modders don't even have a business lisc or phone number.

When do they get to take some responsibility?

If they don't have a business license or phone number then I assume it goes without saying they have no trademarks and maybe no after sales support?

 

[smokinGAVIN]

I will continue to buy and use clones until I find a tank or whatever that lives up to the hype and produces a dependable vape. When I find that good, no PITA vape tool, then, and only then, will authentics get my money.
I have been at it too long and have been disappointed too many times by pie-in-the-sky promises.

I used to love my Subtank. Now I love my Crius. Now I love my Griffin. I think when you find your perfect tank, something newer and maybe better will come along.

 

[Russel]

From the principled perspective, that is not the final question. It is as fair as asking if one should sell (deceptive) counterfeits, or not? And then concluding with idea that it is entirely up to you and your own business. Screw the naysayers who disagree.

If it's not illegal, it's my business what I do, entirely.

Sent from my GT-S6790 using Tapatalk

 

[crxess]

Still watching - same/same

 

[Jman8]

So you feel it's all the consumers fault, yes?

No. Feel consumer (demand) is 25% of the equation. Perhaps up to 50%, but I wouldn't go higher than that.

Which mods do you consider original?

Not sure. But I do think it could be determined. If it were say between two or three that were created at roughly the same time, having authentic markings / design to establish they were unique, I'd be up for all 3 splitting revenues from all cloned versions that are sold, but again, I do think clone manufacturers/vendors ought to get some revenue, just not all of it. IMO, it is fairly clear on why cloners don't deserve all of it. I'm guessing their rates might go up as a result of this. So be it.

 

[Jman8]

That's how every normal business does it.
Modding business apparently operates in Bizzaro world.

Design stuff is counterfeited often (especially in technology devices). Again, I don't know of any practical way around this. I wouldn't make anything I came up with in previous post as mandatory regulation. Just a wish I have for the principle of things. Perhaps something for some consumers to keep in mind while engaging in a market that is plausibly/likely defrauding original designers. I could see many consumers not even aware of the device(s) as counterfeit. But if they were aware of it, and sought to justify it, I think that would make for an interesting debate.

Oh, and they cannot actually get a utility patent on a mech mod.
No one can.
They can protect their logo.
But that would require them to actually register it, and be legit.

I think design patent pertains to this. I acknowledge that without protection sought, it becomes very challenging to win a case. I do think it could plausibly be determined when the designer originated the design and/or first constructed into a usable product. But without going through a bunch of legal hoops, none of which are going to really stop deceptive counterfeiting, I don't see how it would benefit anyone but companies that have teams of lawyers. Even then, probably not.

So, again from consumer side, it just comes down to a principled thing. This doesn't suggest it is all consumer responsibility, but there's a fair line to be drawn between consumer has 100% responsibility (which I say they don't) and consumer has zero responsibility on this matter (which I would disagree with). If consumers wish to justify it, I'd like to hear that argument as I'm pretty sure I could use similar justifications for a whole lot of things involving theft.

 

[Romenov]

36 now

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