Coil calculator

[Piccolo Chimico]

Attached there is a table that can be of help to the user in the construction of a coil that has a correct thermal flow.

This tool can help you find the right heat flow for those who own a mechanical or semi-mech box mod. It goes without saying that for those who use boxes that allow you to adjust the power output or even the temperature, this table is not fundamental.

This table should be used as follows:

1. First of all, consider the part that deals with the diameter of the coil you want to make. This value is decided by the user, based on the size of the vaporization chamber of his atomizer (for example 1.5 - 2 mm for a small MTL atom, 2.5 - 3.5 mm for a large DTL atom) and other factors.
   
2. Look at the column corresponding to the diameter of the wire supplied by the user.
3. You choose the temperature at which you want to vape (in relation to the characteristics of the liquid and personal tastes) by looking at the boxes colored with the respective color.
4. The number of spires to be made, with that specific wire, will thus be on the left to obtain the selected temperature.

The central boxes show the mm^2 of vaporization surface of a resistance having the specific characteristics of spires, wire diameter and coil diameter. The number itself is not relevant for an average user for the purpose of building his coil. On the other hand, it is relevant what the above number corresponds to, i.e. a certain heat flux (which is here expressed for convenience through the relative color that can be seen in the smaller table).

The initial project from which the model of the table derives, and above all the formula used to derive all the others, were taken from an Italian vaping forum (to be precise, this thread opened by @Igiit, which I thank for his extremely precise work).

For error reports, please write me below.

Thank you!

 

[Falconeer]

Welcome to the Forum Piccolo Chimico.

I can see both sides of this ( probably because I was a "funzionario" for most of my life )

A lot of work and research has gone into the production of this table and it does indeed have much merit but I can also see where dripster is coming from when he says it might not be too easy for a total beginner to grasp.

When I first decided I wanted to build my own coils, I didn't even know what I didn't know; I consulted Steam Engine and frankly at that stage even it didn't make a lot of sense to me.

So I borrowed one of my wife's 2.5 crochet needles, got some 28 gauge kanthal and tried 6 wraps testing the coil first on a regulated mod ... and gradually worked on from there absorbing both background theory and new knowledge a small bit at a time.

I do think it can throw newcomers to anything off, if they are hit with too much info or theory at the beginning, but that said I do respect the work that has gone into this table and do feel it will be helpful to those who have first built a simple +1 ohm coil and want to go further.

BTW even with a small mtl rda such as an Origen Little I still use coils with an ID of 2.5 for ease of wicking - but that's just me.

Welcome again.

 

[dripster]

To the average vaper whose aim it is to get into DIY coil building expecting better results compared to other, existing, options, figuring out how these tables can actually be used in practice while still also attempting to meet those expectations is almost certainly going to waste more effort than the effort it takes to learn to build better coils instead like fused claptons, for example.

 

[Piccolo Chimico]

Welcome to the Forum Piccolo Chimico.

I can see both sides of this ( probably because I was a "funzionario" for most of my life )

A lot of work and research has gone into the production of this table and it does indeed have much merit but I can also see where dripster is coming from when he says it might not be too easy for a total beginner to grasp.

When I first decided I wanted to build my own coils, I didn't even know what I didn't know; I consulted Steam Engine and frankly at that stage even it didn't make a lot of sense to me.

So I borrowed one of my wife's 2.5 crochet needles, got some 28 gauge kanthal and tried 6 wraps testing the coil first on a regulated mod ... and gradually worked on from there absorbing both background theory and new knowledge a small bit at a time.

I do think it can throw newcomers to anything off, if they are hit with too much info or theory at the beginning, but that said I do respect the work that has gone into this table and do feel it will be helpful to those who have first build a simple +1 ohm coil and want to go further.

BTW even with a small mtl rda such as an Origen Little I still use coils with an ID of 2.5 for ease of wicking - but that's just me.

Welcome again.

Thank you very much for your comment!! Appreciation is always very nice.
Mine is just a table to start with. My advice for anyone who wants to use it to create their own coil is to use it only as a starting point, to further investigate elsewhere and above all to obtain more personalized data through much more precise and well-known tools, such as Steam Engine. Finally, as with everything, you have to do tests on tests to find what suits you best, because mathematics, physics, thermodynamics and formulas, rarely meet everyone's tastes perfectly.

 

[Piccolo Chimico]

I speak of fused claptons because they are very easy to build, and also I speak about them because your table does not speak about them. As far as I know, that's the only real big problem here... the average user should know this.

Forgive me, but the average user who is looking for info to create his first coil will not start by making a fused clapton. Although they are not too complicated to make, I believe that most of the vaper in the world started with a simple single wire (or am I wrong?).
Finally, there would be the discussion of the true usefulness of complex resistances (those composed of multiple wires): it has not yet been proven if they improve the flavour and indeed, many people agree with the fact that they are totally useless. For example, in my own small way, in two years of vaping, I have never vaped with a resistance that was not a simple single wire (except once) and I always found myself very well.
In any case, the debate on the usefulness of multiple wire resistances is a discourse that is totally beyond the nature of the thread and I would let it be discussed elsewhere.

 

[Falconeer]

Not said sarcastically, I must point out - it might be useful if @dripster were to produce a guide/table sharing his knowledge and experience of fused clapton coils, and any advantages they may have for those who wish to use them or to know more about them.

Personally I'm quite happy with simple coils BUT when I went into my local vape shop to get wire earlier this week the guy there had to hunt to find some simple Kanthal wire whereas he had plenty of clapton wire in stock.

 

[dripster]

Not said sarcastically, I must point out - it might be useful if @dripster were to produce a guide/table sharing his knowledge and experience of fused clapton coils, and any advantages they may have for those who wish to use them or to know more about them.

Personally I'm quite happy with simple coils BUT when I went into my local vape shop to get wire earlier this week the guy there had to hunt to find some simple Kanthal wire whereas he had plenty of clapton wire in stock.

Thanks, but my own personal experience with regular fused claptons is very limited. I mean, before my first vaping month was over, I had already built myself a pair of staple staggered fused claptons using nothing but two spools of different round wire and a spool of ribbon wire, a new cordless drill, and some basic tools like fishing swivels... this in fact was my first coil build ever, I had no prior experience with resistance wire, and, I still succeeded on the first try. I'm only saying this because I am living proof that a lot also depends on your own personal definition of "average vaper" and "starting point", as IMO these terms primarily result from clever marketing tactics having gone way out of control and twice beyond so here's what I'll do. I'll just drop off this video and then get myself out of here real fast.

 

[Piccolo Chimico]

That final sentence of yours is proving my point. People trying to stop smoking by vaping will certainly be directed towards MTL due to how the majority always wins, and, that's why a lot of them will certainly relapse back to smoking as a direct result from having been misdirected towards MTL, as nobody has said that you can't decide to just buy decent handbuilt fused claptons (or decent handbuilt alien coils, even...) at very reasonable prices just to at least be able to find out which vaping style is the right choice for you, as opposed to jumping to conclusions without even trying to compare, let alone trying to do a fair comparison.

And, yes of course people have time to go outside and smoke cigarettes that are far more expensive compared to high wattage vaping on a pair of truly excellent coils, but no of course they don't have money to buy a drill, nor have time to learn how to build decent coils because they're always too busy smoking instead. That's just because, like I already pointed out previously in the thread, the majority always wins. Logic doesn't.

Me and all the people I know who vape, we managed to quit smoking and we only did it by vape MTL (no people excluded). Having said that though, we have all tried complex coils and lung vaping, but nobody has considered choosing these alternatives instead of a single wire mounted on an atom for cheek vaping, none of us have felt an improvement in the experience of vape such as to justify its use. Personal experience.
This is because the traditional MTL returns the feeling that comes closest to analogical cigarettes (a feeling that those who are trying to quit smoking try to reproduce in all possible ways). Complex coils mounted in atoms that produce huge clouds, do not even come close to the sensation of smoking a traditional cigarette.

I am always amused to see people so convinced of their ideas... I would almost think that you have an economic return that leads you to push so much towards the use (and purchase...?) of complex coils.

In any case, I repeat that the topic of this thread is neither the utility nor the uselessness of complex coils. This tool / table is completely different. I appreciate your report and I thank you, I take note of this lack of mine.
If you use complex coils for vaping, I'm happy for you and if you think this tool should include them, please create your own dedicated to these products, but I won't waste time doing it because I don't dedicate myself to things that don't interest me. Having said that I hope you understand my words, because we have already gone too OT.

 

[Piccolo Chimico]

To the average vaper whose aim it is to get into DIY coil building expecting better results compared to other, existing, options, figuring out how these tables can actually be used in practice while still also attempting to meet those expectations is almost certainly going to waste more effort than the effort it takes to learn to build better coils instead like fused claptons, for example.

Forgive me, but I don't think I fully understand your comment (I don't know English well).
If I have not misunderstood, you are telling me that understanding the functioning of this table would be a waste of time that should be dedicated to learning how to build coils (fused clapton... who spoke of fused clapton?). Well, this table serves exactly as a starting point for an average user who looks at the construction of their coils. This table (which I personally believe is very easy to understand) should be taken only as a starting point, from which to try and then make changes and changes based on user personal tastes.
I hope I have correctly understood the meaning of your message, otherwise I apologize in advance.

 

[dripster]

Forgive me, but I don't think I fully understand your comment (I don't know English well).
If I have not misunderstood, you are telling me that understanding the functioning of this table would be a waste of time that should be dedicated to learning how to build coils (fused clapton... who spoke of fused clapton?). Well, this table serves exactly as a starting point for an average user who looks at the construction of their coils. This table (which I personally believe is very easy to understand) should be taken only as a starting point, from which to try and then make changes and changes based on user personal tastes.
I hope I have correctly understood the meaning of your message, otherwise I apologize in advance.

I speak of fused claptons because they are very easy to build, and also I speak about them because your table does not speak about them. As far as I know, that's the only real big problem here... the average user should know this.

 

[stols001]

I appreciate the hard work, though I may not really be using it anytime soon but hey, hard work is always appreciated and I'm sure it will be helpful to some. I do think Steam Engine and kind of learning your own way and taking it as far as you want has merit too.

With that said, I suck as a coil builder.. Not so much at figuring out resistance that is not so hard but the actual mechanics.

Welcome to ECF

Anna

 

[Piccolo Chimico]

I appreciate the hard work, though I may not really be using it anytime soon but hey, hard work is always appreciated and I'm sure it will be helpful to some. I do think Steam Engine and kind of learning your own way and taking it as far as you want has merit too.

With that said, I suck as a coil builder.. Not so much at figuring out resistance that is not so hard but the actual mechanics.

Welcome to ECF

Anna

Thanks sooo much!!

 

[Piccolo Chimico]

The reason why most of the vapers in the world started with a simple single wire is twofold. Firstly, there used to be a time when coil building was still in its infancy so, to those vapers in the world who started around that period, it seemed a lot more logical to start with a simple single wire because that in fact was what everyone was doing, simply because there weren't too many tutorials around yet that took coil building to the next step. Secondly, there still exists a huge bias against anything that just looks like it might be too complicated and/or useless, simply because looks can be deceiving. So the classical behavior of jumping to early conclusions also plays a part, and, in these kinds of debates the majority always wins, logic doesn't.

Further, I firmly disagree with your stance that the usefulness of weighing other options is going off-topic. Because, without discussing these things, the thread reads like yet another advertisement for low wattage vaping, which, if I may be so bold to say so, Sir, the average vaper simply doesn't need in any way, shape or form.

Thanks, but my own personal experience with regular fused claptons is very limited. I mean, before my first vaping month was over, I had already built myself a pair of staple staggered fused claptons using nothing but two spools of different round wire and a spool of ribbon wire, a new cordless drill, and some basic tools like fishing swivels... this in fact was my first coil build ever, I had no prior experience with resistance wire, and, I still succeeded on the first try. I'm only saying this because I am living proof that a lot also depends on your own personal definition of "average vaper" and "starting point", as IMO these terms primarily result from clever marketing tactics having gone way out of control and twice beyond so here's what I'll do. I'll just drop off this video and then get myself out of here real fast.

I agree: the discussions in which we talk about clapton, fused clapton, alien, juggernaut and other complex coils are welcome, but this thread has nothing to do with this. This is just a table for simple single wire coils. Nothing else. If you want to make a tool, a table or a discussion that concerns complex coils, do it, but I won't do it.

I also agree that the characteristics of the "average vaper" and the "starting point" depend on the point of view of each of us. Because as I see it, an average vaper (and I'm thinking of any person who works, who studies, etc.) especially at the beginning, he has neither the time nor the desire to even think about "drills" and "fishing swivels". Points of view.

P.S.: Nobody has talked about low powers, on the contrary...
And in any case it is not written anywhere that everyone wants to make huge clouds by vaping in DTL, on the contrary... In principle, who is trying to stop smoking analogical cigarettes, will certainly be directed towards the MTL (and therefore to relatively reduced powers) instead of pulmonary vaping.

 

[Piccolo Chimico]

If some moderator reads me: is it possible to have permanent permission to modify the initial post of this thread, so as not to have to publish a new message for each update of the files?
Thank you in advance!

 

[dripster]

Forgive me, but the average user who is looking for info to create his first coil will not start by making a fused clapton. Although they are not too complicated to make, I believe that most of the vaper in the world started with a simple single wire (or am I wrong?).
Finally, there would be the discussion of the true usefulness of complex resistances (those composed of multiple wires): it has not yet been proven if they improve the flavour and indeed, many people agree with the fact that they are totally useless. For example, in my own small way, in two years of vaping, I have never vaped with a resistance that was not a simple single wire (except once) and I always found myself very well.
In any case, the debate on the usefulness of multiple wire resistances is a discourse that is totally beyond the nature of the thread and I would let it be discussed elsewhere.

The reason why most of the vapers in the world started with a simple single wire is twofold. Firstly, there used to be a time when coil building was still in its infancy so, to those vapers in the world who started around that period, it seemed a lot more logical to start with a simple single wire because that in fact was what everyone was doing, simply because there weren't too many tutorials around yet that took coil building to the next step. Secondly, there still exists a huge bias against anything that just looks like it might be too complicated and/or useless, simply because looks can be deceiving. So the classical behavior of jumping to early conclusions also plays a part, and, in these kinds of debates the majority always wins, logic doesn't.

Further, I firmly disagree with your stance that the usefulness of weighing other options is going off-topic. Because, without discussing these things, the thread reads like yet another advertisement for low wattage vaping, which, if I may be so bold to say so, Sir, the average vaper simply doesn't need in any way, shape or form.

 

[dripster]

I agree: the discussions in which we talk about clapton, fused clapton, alien, juggernaut and other complex coils are welcome, but this thread has nothing to do with this. This is just a table for simple single wire coils. Nothing else. If you want to make a tool, a table or a discussion that concerns complex coils, do it, but I won't do it.

I also agree that the characteristics of the "average vaper" and the "starting point" depend on the point of view of each of us. Because as I see it, an average vaper (and I'm thinking of any person who works, who studies, etc.) especially at the beginning, he has neither the time nor the desire to even think about "drills" and "fishing swivels". Points of view.

P.S.: Nobody has talked about low powers, on the contrary...
And in any case it is not written anywhere that everyone wants to make huge clouds by vaping in DTL, on the contrary... In principle, who is trying to stop smoking analogical cigarettes, will certainly be directed towards the MTL (and therefore to relatively reduced powers) instead of pulmonary vaping.

That final sentence of yours is proving my point. People trying to stop smoking by vaping will certainly be directed towards MTL due to how the majority always wins, and, that's why a lot of them will certainly relapse back to smoking as a direct result from having been misdirected towards MTL, as nobody has said that you can't decide to just buy decent handbuilt fused claptons (or decent handbuilt alien coils, even...) at very reasonable prices just to at least be able to find out which vaping style is the right choice for you, as opposed to jumping to conclusions without even trying to compare, let alone trying to do a fair comparison.

And, yes of course people have time to go outside and smoke cigarettes that are far more expensive compared to high wattage vaping on a pair of truly excellent coils, but no of course they don't have money to buy a drill, nor have time to learn how to build decent coils because they're always too busy smoking instead. That's just because, like I already pointed out previously in the thread, the majority always wins. Logic doesn't.

 

[dripster]

Me and all the people I know who vape, we managed to quit smoking and we only did it by vape MTL (no people excluded). Having said that though, we have all tried complex coils and lung vaping, but nobody has considered choosing these alternatives instead of a single wire mounted on an atom for cheek vaping, none of us have felt an improvement in the experience of vape such as to justify its use. Personal experience.
This is because the traditional MTL returns the feeling that comes closest to analogical cigarettes (a feeling that those who are trying to quit smoking try to reproduce in all possible ways). Complex coils mounted in atoms that produce huge clouds, do not even come close to the sensation of smoking a traditional cigarette.

I am always amused to see people so convinced of their ideas... I would almost think that you have an economic return that leads you to push so much towards the use (and purchase...?) of complex coils.

In any case, I repeat that the topic of this thread is neither the utility nor the uselessness of complex coils. This tool / table is completely different. I appreciate your report and I thank you, I take note of this lack of mine.
If you use complex coils for vaping, I'm happy for you and if you think this tool should include them, please create your own dedicated to these products, but I won't waste time doing it because I don't dedicate myself to things that don't interest me. Having said that I hope you understand my words, because we have already gone too OT.

Where I am from, almost everyone who builds coils for personal use is vaping on alien coils or something that offers a similar level of performance. This isn't an idea that I am convinced of. Rather, it is just an observation. So there is no reason for you to be amused about it. The fact that you are amused about it says more about you than it says about coils. This entirely proves my point.

Further, I have no economic return in anything related to vaping. The same cannot be said about salesmen who are desperately trying to fool people into believing that relatively cheaper, smaller, lower powered devices are a one-shoe-fits-all type solution that works miracles for everyone, and that high wattage vapers are just freaks of nature or are imbeciles who are completely stubborn because they only like to brag about clouds. High wattage vaping takes some additional effort, mostly experience, to get right. Also it is relatively more expensive so it is harder to sell because the vast majority of newcomers just want a miracle device that gets them instantly off smoking, that's easier to use than a normal cigarette, and that costs little more than two pads of normal cigarettes. It is only logical the fact that the average salesperson caters to that customer mentality. They certainly don't want the majority of their customers to figure out about what I am about to say next.

When I started vaping, transitioning completely from smoking to vaping was instantaneous... there was no typical struggle of being a dual user, no trying to gradually wane myself off smoking going multiple times back and forth between vaping and smoking. For the most part, this was because I was capable to accept the obvious fact that vaping is completely different from smoking so I simply did not feel the need to reproduce smoking, and, high wattage DTL on handbuilt fused clapton coils is what made this all happen spontaneously, instantaneously, and effortless above all. That is, the only challenge (if you can call it that) was learning how to properly rewick my RDA, and how to drip on time, without overdripping.

The key important thing to note here is that my transition from smoking 16-17 normal cigarettes per day, to vaping, was spontaneous, instantaneous, and effortless so there was NO craving for a normal cigarette. And, it is no secret the fact I am very far from being alone. Among those people who failed to replicate THAT, relapse rates are sky high. Low wattage propaganda from the likes of "we tried, but none of us have felt an improvement in the experience of vape such as to justify its use" isn't helping anyone excepting only the aforementioned salesmen. Which brings me back to my point.

 

[Punk In Drublic]

Perhaps you can elaborate on what these values mean because I do not understand.

Heat Flux must include the applied wattage. With a fixed voltage source such as a mech, the coil resistance dictates the power output. You can achieve the same dimension coil but with different resistances by using different metals – therefore the HF will be different.