Cold Steel Mod: Bad vaping experience - can’t figure why
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As long as it stays saturated there won't be any problem... That old Sweet Spot Ti wire which was not Grade 1 was supposedly usable in mechs and wattage mode as it had a melting point lower than the temperature where Ti02 was created. I never bothered with any of that stuff and stopped using Ti a long time ago, much better wire out there for TC like NiFe and SS430.
Titanium Dioxide, which is claimed to be toxic if inhaled (how much, I have no idea) does not begin to form until 1200°F (650°C). A well saturated coil with proper airflow should not reach those temperatures. There is the risk of hot spots if the coil is not made properly and or dry hits, which could easily reach those temperatures.
thanks. i knew they're diff terms, thought as modes it comes to the same thing, only the first you input the TCR and the other you let the mod reads it.
Heard both could be problematic in reviews. TC when the mod doesn't read accurately, don't know how TCR could be finnicky, though i have experienced that myself with nunchaku, thought it was just me until i saw the DJLsb review.
been fine with VW metals/modes_ anyway_ so i shan't distract you guys from helping with the more pressing issue here
TC worked fine for someone like me who seldom uses it, probably meh for someone like you. Can't speak to using TI though.
That's good to know, there are a lot of non DNA mods that do a great TC like Joyetech/Wismec/Eleaf when you have the Arctic Fox Firmware installed.
Honestly I never remember to mention TC on a new mod. I just make sure it works and then usually go right back to wattage.
Hello and sorry to read about the not so positive vaping experience.
I don't really use TC nowadays but like some members already wrote, if it doesn't bape right in wattage mode then TC will be a no go.
TC is also a difficult exercise in some of the not so great chips.
I don't really use TC nowadays but like some members already wrote, if it doesn't bape right in wattage mode then TC will be a no go.
TC is also a difficult exercise in some of the not so great chips.
if you are using a mod with a good TC chip: eg vaporesso gen, Asmodus colossal, arctic fox firmware on Eleaf, Joyetech, Wismec mods. TCR mode just let's you be more accurate.
In TC mode, the preset SS value could be for ss316l, ss317, ss304, or ss430. But in TCR mode, you can stick in the actual TCR value of the wire you are using
Much of this is over my head... maybe that's why i just stick to wattage mode (and have avoided titanium) Not saying any of that is wrong, just that I like the KISS mentality (keep it simple stu..d) Some day I will "advance" to more complex modes of vaping... still learning the basics myself 
Since you are getting a good vape in VW mode, there is nothing wrong with how you are setting up your atomizer. That experience will also inform you on how many watts that build works well at. Once you know that, the next step is to learn enough about how TC works to allow you to translate the information into a successful TC mode vape.
@Ryedan @AngeNZ thanks. if and when i want to try TC/TCR again, i'll prbbly abuse you all again with my own thread.
i got the gen, still waiting on stupid batts, and i've heard it should be good on the reading. my only experience was with nunchaku which only has TCR, with it's stock SS coil. i input-ted but it didn't fire again and again, raised the temp, then tried power, it worked, then back raised temp, nothing, up, nothing, up temp, burnt... i don't remember if DJLsb explained how, but sure he said both nuchcuks were finnicky TCR-ers.
i got the gen, still waiting on stupid batts, and i've heard it should be good on the reading. my only experience was with nunchaku which only has TCR, with it's stock SS coil. i input-ted but it didn't fire again and again, raised the temp, then tried power, it worked, then back raised temp, nothing, up, nothing, up temp, burnt... i don't remember if DJLsb explained how, but sure he said both nuchcuks were finnicky TCR-ers.
Thanks for all the replies!
I tried VW mode. It works just fine! I don’t get the “stalls”!
so what is the conclusion? - ehpro TC just ain’t up to task?
Some info I did not mention -
Wattage setting in TC mode is 75w, but really 40w is more than enough. I left it at 75w for no real reason, it performs the same at 40.
max sustained Wattage that I’ve seen in TC mode (it shows the wattage as I vape) is 20-25w. I VW mode I used 27w.
the coil is from yesterday. It does gunk very fast, true. though it’s also the juice - I’m out of my regular juice, the one that is left is very dark by itself. Usually with my everyday juice the wick is light orange color after couple of days, not black like today.
I’ve been changing coils and wicks every 2 days, and I feel that’s too much. Back when I was vaping VW I used to rewick/change coil once a week, even though I was vaping very high wattage back then.
regarding resistance locking - i might have described it the wrong way, and it’s a long story, but basically, when you put on the atty, the mod reads certain resistance - say 0.3ohm at room temperature. When you fire the mod it rises to whatever value - say 0.61 ohm, drops back to 0.3 when done.
I had a problem though - when ambient temperature dropped (if I’m outdoors for example), the resistance would also drop. Issue with that was that I could not vape at all when it happened. No vapor. I had to rise the temp to the max just to get it working. When ambient temp rose the opposite happened, and suddenly I was getting violent hits.
I don’t know if that’s how it should be, but that was annoying.
I tried newest firmware as well. I ended up contacting ehpro and they send me a custom firmware, so no more “surprises” from ambience temp change, when I put the atty the base resistance stays the same through out the day.
Regarding mod quality - it may look like it’s build like a tank, but mine shuts off for no apparent reason, and today I found juice inside battery compartment. I’m certain the juice leaked through seem between 510 connector and the body, and I find that ridiculous. I understand if you have a crazy leak all over buttons/USB port, but that’s not my case.
I got a general impression as if I’m too demanding in terms of reliability and build quality of mods, but I simply judge from experience I had with all the other gadgets and tools in my life, and vape mods stand out to me as extremely unreliable, bad designed devices. Not only ehpro, and not only affordable ones. I stay away from VGOD for example. I actually had high hopes for ehpro in that regards...I mean look at it! Solid piece of metal! But no...
TCR - I have TCR option, I’ve played around with it, but the default values for Ti and SS were fine. I used TCR to remedy the “stalls” but it was burning the wick, so I stoped using it.
wire type - I went titanium simply because it supposedly should work better in TC, but SS was just fine really.
my batteries are 40T (is it Samsung? I don’t remember, I picked from the recommended ones on this forum)
I tried VW mode. It works just fine! I don’t get the “stalls”!
so what is the conclusion? - ehpro TC just ain’t up to task?
Some info I did not mention -
Wattage setting in TC mode is 75w, but really 40w is more than enough. I left it at 75w for no real reason, it performs the same at 40.
max sustained Wattage that I’ve seen in TC mode (it shows the wattage as I vape) is 20-25w. I VW mode I used 27w.
the coil is from yesterday. It does gunk very fast, true. though it’s also the juice - I’m out of my regular juice, the one that is left is very dark by itself. Usually with my everyday juice the wick is light orange color after couple of days, not black like today.
I’ve been changing coils and wicks every 2 days, and I feel that’s too much. Back when I was vaping VW I used to rewick/change coil once a week, even though I was vaping very high wattage back then.
regarding resistance locking - i might have described it the wrong way, and it’s a long story, but basically, when you put on the atty, the mod reads certain resistance - say 0.3ohm at room temperature. When you fire the mod it rises to whatever value - say 0.61 ohm, drops back to 0.3 when done.
I had a problem though - when ambient temperature dropped (if I’m outdoors for example), the resistance would also drop. Issue with that was that I could not vape at all when it happened. No vapor. I had to rise the temp to the max just to get it working. When ambient temp rose the opposite happened, and suddenly I was getting violent hits.
I don’t know if that’s how it should be, but that was annoying.
I tried newest firmware as well. I ended up contacting ehpro and they send me a custom firmware, so no more “surprises” from ambience temp change, when I put the atty the base resistance stays the same through out the day.
Regarding mod quality - it may look like it’s build like a tank, but mine shuts off for no apparent reason, and today I found juice inside battery compartment. I’m certain the juice leaked through seem between 510 connector and the body, and I find that ridiculous. I understand if you have a crazy leak all over buttons/USB port, but that’s not my case.
I got a general impression as if I’m too demanding in terms of reliability and build quality of mods, but I simply judge from experience I had with all the other gadgets and tools in my life, and vape mods stand out to me as extremely unreliable, bad designed devices. Not only ehpro, and not only affordable ones. I stay away from VGOD for example. I actually had high hopes for ehpro in that regards...I mean look at it! Solid piece of metal! But no...
TCR - I have TCR option, I’ve played around with it, but the default values for Ti and SS were fine. I used TCR to remedy the “stalls” but it was burning the wick, so I stoped using it.
wire type - I went titanium simply because it supposedly should work better in TC, but SS was just fine really.
my batteries are 40T (is it Samsung? I don’t remember, I picked from the recommended ones on this forum)
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rayon is awesome! I heard some people don’t like the taste, but I don’t feel any taste at all. In my experience Kendo organic cotton is the worst offender (not saying it’s bad, I actually liked the taste sometimes).
Also I find it a lot easier to work with rayon
I can tell you this much - if I set up atty at room temp, and get say 0.35ohm, then vape a bit, unscrew the atty, screw it back again, the mod will show resistance of...say 0.45ohm because the coil is hot. If I leave it for couple of minutes, it will go back down to 0.35.
But it won’t change anymore from outdoors to indoors.
How should it be done the right way? How dna chips approach that for example?
40T is great at lower wattage, 30T would serve you better over 50w. I use both depending on build.
Wattage mode works because there is no resistance criteria. The device does not care what the coil resistance is, it will just fire at your prescribed wattage. But take note that if your Temperature Control is not working properly due to a coil that is gunked up, then by firing it in wattage mode, you are vaping that gunk. I’ll let you decide whether you want to vape carbonized sugars or not.
Agree that changing wick and coils every 2 days is a bit extreme – but that is the juice you are vaping. As you noted, your other juice does not gunk as quickly. But understand that carbon buildup on a coil effects it’s resistance, and temperature control relies on coil resistance to function properly. Any influence to resistance can and will hinder TC performance.
As stated before, the resistance of all metals change with temperature and that change is defined by the metals TCR value. The TCR value of the metal does not change – it is embedded into the metals properties and cannot be changed. Should ambient temperature drop, then the resistance will drop according to the metals TCR value. Should ambient temperature increase, then resistance should also increase according to the metals TCR value. This is the physics behind Temperature Coefficient of Resistance, and is not some feature created by a vape company.
DNA’s do not require the resistance to be locked. If resistance drops due to ambient temperature, they still hit their target vape temperature. The needed calculations are just modified in real time based on the coil resistance. DNA’s also have an ambient temperature sensor.
TC or predefined TC profiles still require a TCR value. They cannot function without. The TCR value has just been coded into the firmware of the device to allow a more simplified method of setup. If your device works properly with a predefined profile based on the type of metal of your coil, but then suddenly starts acting sporadically, then changing the TCR value and or target temperature is just adding to the problem for you are now chasing an unknown.
A vape device temperature control relies on the accuracy of reading resistance. Lose post screws, dirty or lose 510 connection and carbonized coils are just a few influences that can hinder the accuracy of reading resistance, thus hinder the performance of the device. Even DNA devices are not void of these problems.
When you use a clean or new coil, does TC work properly?
There is no device that has the capabilities to read a metals TCR value – that would be much too complex for even the best devices to pull off. Predefined profiles just have a fixed TCR value coded into the firmware, and even they can be incorrect. As an example. Stainless Steel is an alloy whose composition allows a variance in materials – such variances can change it’s TCR value. I have seen noted TCR values from metallurgists for SS316L that range between 0.00087 to 0.001. Using the incorrect value, whether it is predefined in the firmware or manually entered means you are not hitting your target temperature and could also mean the device will not modulate power accordingly which could result in dry burns.
DJLsb uses a thermocouple to measure the temperature of the coil. He modifies the TCR value in order to overcome the deficiencies of the device to reach a defined temperature – such deficiencies could be incorrect calculations performed by the device, incorrect TCR values, or just poor performance at reading resistance. The problem is, DJLsb’s coil is different than yours, mine and everyone else’s so our results will also be different than his.
Nor sure how the Cold Steel works, but with my Vaporesso mods, I just choose the type of metal, set wattage just a bit higher than in wattage, keep the base defined tcr value and adjust temperature as I vape on starting low. Never had a problem using factory settings for each metal and TC worked rather well.
It’s important to note that even with an incorrect TCR value, that does not mean you can not achieve a preferred vape. It just means you are not hitting your goal temperature. How far off your goal will be determined by how far off your TCR value is from the metals true TCR value.
Example:
0.5 ohm SS coil with a true TCR value of 0.0009 and a goal temperature of 230°C. The physics behind Temperature Coefficient of Resistance state at room temperature of 25°C this coil must rise in resistance by 0.0922 ohms to reach 230°C.
If your predefined or manually entered TCR value is 0.00112 (default SS value on a Geekvape Legend), and your goal temperature is still 230°C, then the calculated rise in resistance from 25°C room temperature is 0.1148 ohms. Quite different than above.
Given the coils true TCR value is 0.0009, the actual temperature based on an increase of 0.1148 ohms is now 280°C. That’s a +50°C difference.
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