I think everyone's just bummed that Seal and Heidi Klum couldn't work things out ...
But everything's going to be OK, Suicidebob! Don't do anything rash; I'm sure things will look better in the morning!
Colorado man sues after explosion
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I think everyone's just bummed that Seal and Heidi Klum couldn't work things out ...
But everything's going to be OK, Suicidebob! Don't do anything rash; I'm sure things will look better in the morning!
I can buy a chainsaw even though i dont know how to use it. DOesnt mean chainsaws need more safety . It means you shouldnt buy a chainsaw if you dont know how to use it.
A vacuum cleaner can burn down a house or pull someones hair out .It has happened plenty of times in the past . Does that mean they should be made more safe? Most people would thing they are plenty safe . No matter what your talking about theres always a small chance that someone can get injured with it.Ecigs are no different and arnt any less safe then any other everyday tool/appliance/etc
Theres no reason to argue about it . Some dont believe others opionions and others dont believe theirs . Theres no point of cursing people out because they think they are right .Its not going to change their opinions and there is no right . Its all just what we believe.
A vacuum cleaner can burn down a house or pull someones hair out .It has happened plenty of times in the past . Does that mean they should be made more safe? Most people would thing they are plenty safe . No matter what your talking about theres always a small chance that someone can get injured with it.Ecigs are no different and arnt any less safe then any other everyday tool/appliance/etc
Theres no reason to argue about it . Some dont believe others opionions and others dont believe theirs . Theres no point of cursing people out because they think they are right .Its not going to change their opinions and there is no right . Its all just what we believe.
I think we have a definite division of opinion here. Some folks want their "safety" handed to them on a plate - these are the folks who re not prepared to accept responsibility for their own safety, in my view. They buy their cars based on airbags and seat belts and use bactericides all over everywhere, and favour the nanny state certifying everything as safe before they'll use it. They're also most likely to sue if anything goes even slightly wrong.
On the other hand, we have folks who don't automatically wash their hands if they've handled their shoes and are going to make a cuppa, take responsibility for their own safety, and understand that greater risk requires greater vigilance and understanding. Amazingly, folks in the latter camp suffer fewer accidents, fewer diseases, and, I dare bet, experience fewer battery failures and mod failures - quite probably fewer in the order of zero.
Who's right??
On the other hand, we have folks who don't automatically wash their hands if they've handled their shoes and are going to make a cuppa, take responsibility for their own safety, and understand that greater risk requires greater vigilance and understanding. Amazingly, folks in the latter camp suffer fewer accidents, fewer diseases, and, I dare bet, experience fewer battery failures and mod failures - quite probably fewer in the order of zero.
Who's right??
Now that sounds like a plausible explanation and makes a lot more sense. I know when I got my first APV, I had no clue what to buy for a battery other than I was supposed to get protected 18650s. Knowing next to nothing about batteries, other than they came in C, D,, AA and AAA as well as little circles that fit in watches and garage door openers, I was totally lost. I must have found 4 or 5 different varieties until I finally found Ultrafires that specified they were protected batteries.
I used them for over a year without incident, not thinking about batteries again until the Fla. report. Now I'm thermal bagging on recharge of my new 18650s that came with my VV and wondering how 2 sets of batteries designated 18650s can be a different size. I'm also thinking I understand why the battery industry really needs to come up with the next gen of batteries that will be safer than the current Li-ions.
I came real close to a thermal event in my first Droid. The battery looked like it was pregnant and bent the back out during a charge but fortunately didn't damage the phone.
Funny, I read your first three sentences and I flashed to what you said in your last one before I read it. It's like someone who spent a couple months riding around on a 50cc moped and decides to buy a crotch rocket or someone who used an electric hedge that goes out a buys a 18-Inch Husqvarna 450 chain saw. They kind of look the same, just a bit bigger.
If this isn't a wake up call to the industry to get together and start developing some standards, I don't know what will be. That being said, and I can make the statement because I represent the remark, we as humans and men in particular are adverse to reading what's provided on the products we purchase. I'm much better today than I used to be for two reasons. First, I'm older and wiser. Translated- I've screwed up enough times before to at least know when something inside my head whispers "Danger, Will Robinson" and I have more time on my hands. Second, good and bad sometimes, is the method of communication I'm using this morning- the internet. Researching doesn't unnecessary involve reading a stinking manual, to term a phrase.
I think the best idea I read in this entire thread was the one that put a piece of paper in the battery compartment that read loud and clear what batteries needed to be used in the device and where to get additional information. It really makes for a good defense in the courtroom.
So, just so I'm clear, you knew he needed help because he said so. Then you proceed to order this APV for him and you were feeling good about the fact that it came w tenergy's. You told him how good this product was and how safe it was as it comes. My question is this, You never felt it necessary to mention, knowing he was uninformed, that no matter what he should NEVER put any batts in that APV except the supplied ones?
Your right, what he did was not idiotic, it was innocent and a simple lack of info. Whos fault is the lack of info? The vendor, the man in question, or you? What you did NOT do, could prob, IMO fall in that category, and have of prevented this whole scenario. So, look in the mirror before you start judging our speculation.
For the record, I was a large part of this thread since the first post. I slept on this all night. I got up just now, caught up on what transpired overnight, so, there it is.
I never knew it either ...until his face got blown off. I like many others didnt come out of the womb knowing it was important to use protected batts. Make sense?
My primary focus is the e-cig movement that helps people switch to vaping
and saves lives. I couldn't care less if they prefer a disposable, 510 or an eGo.
What concerns me is our movement is too fragile to sustain many more headlines
"ANOTHER Electronic cigarette EXPLODED in the face of a consumer"
The discussion on batteries and MODs has been most interesting. However
it showcases how much is not common knowledge, even with in the
MOD hobby community.
The pubic at large (which includes many vapers) considers MODs as just
another e-cigarette with a different style, shape or size. Kinda sorta like
there are e-cigs and there are e-pipes. The public at large assumes that
all products offered for sale are at least "generally safe"
The MOD hobby appeared to be doing just fine...until it broke out of
the hobby circles into the mainstream market.
"After the fact" scramble now to suggest education, manuals, warning labels,
design modifications ETC is understood ... However, the public at large is
really not interested in being educated, reading manuals, or following
instructions ... The "You Can't Fix Stupid" comments, although amusing here,
will NOT Fly with the public.
Exploding E-cigarettes in the news...
is a "Dream Come True" for ANTZ, Prohibitionists, and the FDA
and saves lives. I couldn't care less if they prefer a disposable, 510 or an eGo.
What concerns me is our movement is too fragile to sustain many more headlines
"ANOTHER Electronic cigarette EXPLODED in the face of a consumer"
The discussion on batteries and MODs has been most interesting. However
it showcases how much is not common knowledge, even with in the
MOD hobby community.
The pubic at large (which includes many vapers) considers MODs as just
another e-cigarette with a different style, shape or size. Kinda sorta like
there are e-cigs and there are e-pipes. The public at large assumes that
all products offered for sale are at least "generally safe"
The MOD hobby appeared to be doing just fine...until it broke out of
the hobby circles into the mainstream market.
"After the fact" scramble now to suggest education, manuals, warning labels,
design modifications ETC is understood ... However, the public at large is
really not interested in being educated, reading manuals, or following
instructions ... The "You Can't Fix Stupid" comments, although amusing here,
will NOT Fly with the public.
Exploding E-cigarettes in the news...
is a "Dream Come True" for ANTZ, Prohibitionists, and the FDA
Petrodus- you are absolutely correct.
It will take some heavy duty "back pedaling" to over-come every bad event from our community to save our way of life.
Simply showing the public that the same thing has happened w/ flashlights isn't going to be enough...as with them, their purpose is not to put them in one's mouth but instead held or mounted on a bike, etc.
I'm hoping all of this isn't too late- we need "regulations" of sort from the "inside," and even then, it is questionable as not everyone is going to follow these (unfortunately, it's a free world and as some have mentioned- the "wild west" in regards to vaping) and my fear is that there will still be incidents. We can reduce these but they WILL continue. I guess that the best we can hope for is that we as a community have put together what is "minimally acceptable," such as forms about battery usage in the mod battery compartments themselves- highly recommended for all suppliers/builders and then hope for the best. Then when there is an incident and these "guidelines" weren't followed, we can say that the community did everything it knew how to stop such things. The question is going to be, "Was that good enough?" Will the Gov still want to step in and regulate us on the account of battery issues in PV's? I see the door being opened from there to other aspects of vaping (unrelated, yes, but just the same)...the flavors, sales of nicotine...."For the Children." The list goes on.
Still, "Community Standards" to keep people safe are needed and this is a much better start than not having them at all.
It will take some heavy duty "back pedaling" to over-come every bad event from our community to save our way of life.
Simply showing the public that the same thing has happened w/ flashlights isn't going to be enough...as with them, their purpose is not to put them in one's mouth but instead held or mounted on a bike, etc.
I'm hoping all of this isn't too late- we need "regulations" of sort from the "inside," and even then, it is questionable as not everyone is going to follow these (unfortunately, it's a free world and as some have mentioned- the "wild west" in regards to vaping) and my fear is that there will still be incidents. We can reduce these but they WILL continue. I guess that the best we can hope for is that we as a community have put together what is "minimally acceptable," such as forms about battery usage in the mod battery compartments themselves- highly recommended for all suppliers/builders and then hope for the best. Then when there is an incident and these "guidelines" weren't followed, we can say that the community did everything it knew how to stop such things. The question is going to be, "Was that good enough?" Will the Gov still want to step in and regulate us on the account of battery issues in PV's? I see the door being opened from there to other aspects of vaping (unrelated, yes, but just the same)...the flavors, sales of nicotine...."For the Children." The list goes on.
Still, "Community Standards" to keep people safe are needed and this is a much better start than not having them at all.
Me personally seeing a new battery for the first time other then a AA,AAA,D,C i would always go find out about them before using. Especially a battery that not the normal 1.5v.I dont know why anybody would just use them without knowing anything. I will say one thing they should start being refered to as cells . I never called them batteries until it became a habit reading here. I think most newbs seeing the word cell with not confuse them with regular batteries .On CPF iv always refered to them as cells like most people. All we need are warnings for newbs and that should be enough just like every other industry does. No need to change how mod are made and slash huge holes in them. Most are just as safe as common household things expecially when using it properly.The random mods that are not are probably not going to change anyway expecially china made mods. I gotta also say in the rare case a battery does vent id rather have the chance to drop it from getting hot over burning my hands off.My hands are more important then my face. Thats just my opinion.
I also feel by allegedly calling them more dangerous then they are and putting so much enphasis on changing mods i fear its only bringing uneeded attention by the wrong people. Im sure the FDA is thinking if the users are trying to change things because they think its dangerous then we the FDA have to jump in a ban it. It also brings out lots of false failures because people think they can get money out of it. All because of info based upon no real numbers or knowing what numbers are considered safe.You cant say even one failure is to much because thats not reallity . One failure would be consider the safest thing on planet earth possibly.
I do agree all mods need some sort of protection but they dont need to go overboard. Mostly all stacked VV mods have adequate protection built in as is . Only mecahnical tubes mods should need is a simple ptc fuse and using the correct Cells.
These are just my opinions .Your welcome to not agree of course. I have no problem with that.
I also feel by allegedly calling them more dangerous then they are and putting so much enphasis on changing mods i fear its only bringing uneeded attention by the wrong people. Im sure the FDA is thinking if the users are trying to change things because they think its dangerous then we the FDA have to jump in a ban it. It also brings out lots of false failures because people think they can get money out of it. All because of info based upon no real numbers or knowing what numbers are considered safe.You cant say even one failure is to much because thats not reallity . One failure would be consider the safest thing on planet earth possibly.
I do agree all mods need some sort of protection but they dont need to go overboard. Mostly all stacked VV mods have adequate protection built in as is . Only mecahnical tubes mods should need is a simple ptc fuse and using the correct Cells.
These are just my opinions .Your welcome to not agree of course. I have no problem with that.
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One other thing- I still see vendors selling unprotected batteries- What's up with that???
Is this necessary? Do they do this because there's money to be made? I don't get it. Of course they are cheaper and so the "unknowing" might buy them. The most horrible situation is for someone to buy a mod and the batteries from the same vendor and that thing explode (because of the wrong batteries). Maybe there is a need for these batteries, if someone is making their own mod and adding protective circuitry to the battery, etc. I don't know. Seems there needs to be a standard here as well- Vendors either can't sell unprotected batteries (I'm not talking about IMR's) or when you go to "click and buy" them, there needs to be a field that is filled out before you can buy that explains what you're going to do with these said batteries- with the vendor still able to "stop the deal" and not sell them to you. Vendors of batteries need to be in the know too (even if they aren't selling PV's) and put some type of warning on their site and w/ the battery when they are shipped. If you're like me, you might buy your PV from one place and batteries (or cells) from another.
I guess the question is- How far do we need to go to protect fellow vapers? I say as far as possible if it involves, life, limb, eyes, mouths, teeth and of course, our vaping life-style.
Is this necessary? Do they do this because there's money to be made? I don't get it. Of course they are cheaper and so the "unknowing" might buy them. The most horrible situation is for someone to buy a mod and the batteries from the same vendor and that thing explode (because of the wrong batteries). Maybe there is a need for these batteries, if someone is making their own mod and adding protective circuitry to the battery, etc. I don't know. Seems there needs to be a standard here as well- Vendors either can't sell unprotected batteries (I'm not talking about IMR's) or when you go to "click and buy" them, there needs to be a field that is filled out before you can buy that explains what you're going to do with these said batteries- with the vendor still able to "stop the deal" and not sell them to you. Vendors of batteries need to be in the know too (even if they aren't selling PV's) and put some type of warning on their site and w/ the battery when they are shipped. If you're like me, you might buy your PV from one place and batteries (or cells) from another.
I guess the question is- How far do we need to go to protect fellow vapers? I say as far as possible if it involves, life, limb, eyes, mouths, teeth and of course, our vaping life-style.
It certainly does make sense. Please excuse me, (sincerely), for assuming if you were ordering for a friend, you were well versed in these types of things. If I was mistaken, I apologize.
Actually, if you have ever read a chainsaw manual, they give you enough information to use it safely and to evaluate your skill/comfort level. Not to mention safety switches and guards built into the device. They tell you what could go wrong. Something some vendors have neglected to do.
I disabled the idiot switches on my lawn mower, but I understand why they were put there.
I disabled the idiot switches on my lawn mower, but I understand why they were put there.
Be careful Wiz. I don't know if there is any such thing as a cheap AW battery. All of them on Alibaba are counterfeits for example (any on Ebay will also probably be fakes). You only get genuine AW cells if you buy them through one of their few distributors, and in that case they are not cheap.
You might have two reject-quality unprotected Li-ion cells there. The label on them means nothing - what counts is who you bought them from.
The counterfeiters buy unprotected Li-ion cells by the pallet load from hardware manufacturers who have tested them before use and found that they failed their tests. These rejects are sold off cheap. The labels are stripped off and replaced with AW, Tenergy, or whatever is selling well. You get a re-covered junk Li-ion that cost 10c and it costs you $6 for a nice AW label.
I'm not saying this is what happened in your case, just that 'cheap AW batteries' is kind of a contradiction, if you see what I mean.
I have been saying for a while now that there has to be some kind of certification process put into place for anyone who wants to buy anything above a simple starter kit.
Combine that with a manual, and a list of batts that go in every APV, and were going to reduce these cases. Maybe think about some of the other suggestions such as a chip a wont accept any batt except the right one, and a properly charged right one.
This isnt rocket science. Like Petrodus said were only going to have so many of these incidents before the man shuts this down all together.
Combine that with a manual, and a list of batts that go in every APV, and were going to reduce these cases. Maybe think about some of the other suggestions such as a chip a wont accept any batt except the right one, and a properly charged right one.
This isnt rocket science. Like Petrodus said were only going to have so many of these incidents before the man shuts this down all together.
Or, possibly worse, "recycle" used ones (after a very basic 'will it charge?' test).
We have several vendors known for selling quality (non-knockoff) batteries. Can we build a listing?
Another thing I personally learned the hard way.. I have protected batteries. I bought them with my provari. I was carrying my extra battery around in my purse, where there is also loose change. I was parked at walmart one day, and noticed my purse felt hot. When I opened it up to see what was up, the battery inside started smoking like crazy. I dumped the purse out onto the concrete, but it had already burned a hole through the purse and also burned a hole in the passenger seat of my car that the purse was sitting on.
Anyway, my husband told me later that it was a reaction caused by friction from the change in my purse. Its just one of those things I never would have thought to worry about. I now carry them around in a seperate container.
Anyway, my husband told me later that it was a reaction caused by friction from the change in my purse. Its just one of those things I never would have thought to worry about. I now carry them around in a seperate container.
Personally I think all vapers want to know what is "safer/er" and what is not. We are all John Q public here who decided to vape. How many of us are really interested in knowing safety? ALOT of us! So I say we educate educate educate. I have been very disappointed in the lack of info, instruction, from buying many PV's from cheap Chinese junk to US made. Send instructions, regardless, send warnings about the batteries and what chargers to use. Tell us why not use non rechargable batteries, because they can explode! Tell mod users to do the first button 3 second press, away from their face. Make sure mods are properly vented. Only use proteced or safer chemistry batts.
That fact that alot of people are clueless about using unprotected and non rechargeable batteries means we have a problem and it has to come from vape world to educate. We have to do more than just say this model rocks and this one hits at 5V, and I love this chrome, lets get on the bandwagon and do our job and gets the facts out there so people know how to use them as safely as possible. Even an ego can explode if charged improperly, it is not just mods. heck I even had an 808 pop and start smoking. We have a job to do to save the industry and it is up to us alone. bnrk
That fact that alot of people are clueless about using unprotected and non rechargeable batteries means we have a problem and it has to come from vape world to educate. We have to do more than just say this model rocks and this one hits at 5V, and I love this chrome, lets get on the bandwagon and do our job and gets the facts out there so people know how to use them as safely as possible. Even an ego can explode if charged improperly, it is not just mods. heck I even had an 808 pop and start smoking. We have a job to do to save the industry and it is up to us alone. bnrk
Us and the vendors if their interested in not losing all they have invested up to this point.
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