Comparing Vaping to Smoking?

[Nicco]

I find most very positive to vaping, contrary to the media. People in general seems to be much more practical about it than the scaremongers. Most seem to know about e-cigarettes these days, and accept it.

For non-smokers beginning to vape, I'm not for it. When Non-smokers start to smoke, it's good there is an alternative. Some will try a analog, but extremely few will go all the way. Think about the great options in vaping. The unlimited options in gear and tastes for personalisation. I think traditional tobacco will seem lame after that. This is not considering the extremely high cost.

I'm convinced that vaping will win in the long-run, short-term there may be trouble though!

 

[Jman8]

I see it as a generational thing that's steeped in politics of the day. I reckon for about the next 20 years (hopefully less), vaping will continue to show up as transitional activity for smokers who enjoy smoking (as habit), but don't care for health problems that are blasted, ad nauseam, all around us.

Like OP, the vapers I hang with will continue to smoke. As I recently met up with a bunch of them, I learned that all of us are now closer to full time vaper and part time smoker. My current pack of smokes was purchased in 2013. So, I'm spending around $5 a month right now on smoking, and all those wonderful hyped up anti-smoking messages mean next to nothing in my experience, while my opinions, especially as of late, are very strong/passionate toward cutting thru the BS.

I long for the day when vaping can stand on its own two legs and not be always tied to smoking, quitting smoking, treated the same as smoking when in a public place. IMO, if vaping is around 50 years from now, and politics of (anti)smoking goes on, as is the case now, there will be a point when vapers are starting who never smoked, probably never will and are clearly the majority of current vapers. But at that time, who knows what kind of devices we'll be using or what kind of wonderful (fully legal) substances we'll be vaping.

Right now, we are entrenched with the propaganda / deception that ANTZ peddles and that permeates the smoking/vaping culture.

You've been telling lies so long
Some believe they're true
So they close their eyes to things
You have no right to do
Just as soon as you are gone
Hope will start to climb
Please don't stay around too long
You're wasting precious time

 

[Stubby]

We can get a very good idea of what the future may look like by looking to a country where a low risk tobacco product has become the norm and is more popular then cigarettes. Sweden has the lowest smoking rate in the western world and less then half the smoking rate of the rest of the EU. The reason for that is because of the use of snus.

Sweden's overall tobacco use is at least as high as other countries, but there smoking rate is much smaller. People haven't stopped using tobacco and nicotine, they have simply switched to a low risk form. There is no reason to believe the same wouldn't happen in other places where a low risk form of tobacco/nicotine becomes widely available and people are truthfully informed as to what the risk are compared to cigarettes.

One of the ironies is that there has been a low risk form of tobacco available in the US for a long time in the form of smokeless tobacco. The problem is that the anti-tobacco zealots have convinced the public that smokeless tobacco has the same level of risk as smoking. It's the lie that keeps on killing.

 

[twgbonehead]

Except for that being unable to taste anything, and needing a place to spit all day.

You might want to introduce him to Snus? (Good ones if they are available).

 

[twgbonehead]

I quit a 30+ year habit with vaping, and I'm never going back. Especially after the cancer diagnosis

With that said... I work in a vape shop part time. We have everything from eGo starters to mech mods and drippers. I'm really surprised at how many people come in who have never smoked in their lives- especially young people. I think they see it as a way to be "cool" and smoke without all the danger. And people are really drawn to the high-tech look of the stuff.

I feel a little conflicted about selling a 22 year old a setup when they've never smoked before. I know they're adults and can make their own choices, but I wonder why they want to vape at all? We do offer 0 nic juice and I always steer them to that, but still... I didn't expect to sell to anyone who had never smoked. It's odd if you ask me.

But the reality is that if they vape 0 nic, what's the harm? Chances are they will never feel the same way about vaping as someone who smoked for many years, and they will stop after the fad part of it slows down.

I do hear where you're coming from.

But, if that same 22-year-old went into a store and asked for a pack of cigarettes, would anyone even blink?

Yes, Kids (even 22-year olds) want desperately to be "cool", which often involves smoking, alcohol, drug use, sex, "extreme" anything, etc. etc. etc, without really "wanting" to do it, just wanting to be accepted.

Personally, I think it is GREAT that there is an option that (even with nicotine) is "cool" but also is pretty damned benign. (And the fact that nobody really can tell whether you're vaping with nic or not is a big plus!).

I would much rather my kids vape than do some of the really stupid stuff I did when I was 22 (mostly drunk driving, but I was also a very "good kid" compared to most of my peers!)

 

[twgbonehead]

We can get a very good idea of what the future may look like by looking to a country where a low risk tobacco product has become the norm and is more popular then cigarettes. Sweden has the lowest smoking rate in the western world and less then half the smoking rate of the rest of the EU. The reason for that is because of the use of snus.

Sweden's overall tobacco use is at least as high as other countries, but there smoking rate is much smaller. People haven't stopped using tobacco and nicotine, they have simply switched to a low risk form. There is no reason to believe the same wouldn't happen in other places where a low risk form of tobacco/nicotine becomes widely available and people are truthfully informed as to what the risk are compared to cigarettes.

One of the ironies is that there has been a low risk form of tobacco available in the US for a long time in the form of smokeless tobacco. The problem is that the anti-tobacco zealots have convinced the public that smokeless tobacco has the same level of risk as smoking. It's the lie that keeps on killing.

Yes! And snus have been popular in Sweden for so long that there are POSITIVE, CONCLUSIVE, and UNDENIABLE results, on a POPULATION level. No need even for studies; it shows up clearly and dramatically just on national statistics.

(edit)
Don't mean to yell. But the Swedish SNUS history is just such a strong example of how things can be Good, and the US response is such a strong example of how some institutions just suck.

 

[~Sue~Feb2012]

A lot of my friends vape. We all have fun talkin' shop, trying each other's set ups, all sorts of stuff.
About half of them never smoked, maybe a quarter quit smoking by vaping, and then the rest smoke and vape interchangeably.
..............
How do you feel about this? Do you feel that we, as a community, should look down on people who's first introduction to nicotine is through vapor, not smoke? Are you surprised when vapers haven't smoked cigarettes before? Do you feel like this hobby is exclusively for nicotine replacement therapy? What's your opinion?

I don't think we should look down on people, period. I have friends who smoke and don't vape. I have met one acquaintance who smoked but now vapes exclusively, in public anyway (not sure what she does at home.)

I've not met anyone who vapes but never smoked. Is it a fad now for the younger generation to start vaping instead of starting to smoke? Is it cool to do so or are they experimenting with many things, not just vaping? IMO it is better to vape than smoke though. My S/O chews and spits something called Kodiak, but he doesn't smoke. He says it gives him a bit of a buzz and he only does this a couple times a day. Neither of us ever tried snus, so can't speak to that either as some have mentioned. I started vaping to try to quit smoking. I believe it is about harm reduction. I don't plan to give up nicotine because I believe the health benefits of nicotine.

I do hear where you're coming from.

But, if that same 22-year-old went into a store and asked for a pack of cigarettes, would anyone even blink?

Yes, Kids (even 22-year olds) want desperately to be "cool", which often involves smoking, alcohol, drug use, sex, "extreme" anything, etc. etc. etc, without really "wanting" to do it, just wanting to be accepted.

Personally, I think it is GREAT that there is an option that (even with nicotine) is "cool" but also is pretty damned benign. (And the fact that nobody really can tell whether you're vaping with nic or not is a big plus!).

I would much rather my kids vape than do some of the really stupid stuff I did when I was 22 (mostly drunk driving, but I was also a very "good kid" compared to most of my peers!)

^^ This. Many of my peers went on to experiment with other things and I walked the other way. In hind sight, I wish that I'd never starting smoking either. Now that vaping is here to stay, I'm thankful for the harm reduction and better health.

 

[Topacka]

I'm glad that Swedish snus was brought up, I love snus personally, I use it every day. But in America we've taken it, and marketed it as nicotine replacement for a quit smoking aid. But Sweden doesn't look at it this way, it just happens to be, for many centuries, the most common form of tobacco use, why that is as opposed to the rest of the world that mostly smokes isn't really known, but we do know that it's not because it's a safer alternative. I think that's important to note, because I feel like soon, vaping will be like this, with snus, for years you've been able to choose your nicotine level, from the extreme at 22mg/g to 0mg nic. And this isn't, and has never been used as a marketing tool for quitting or weaning yourself off, it's just for people to pick the level that they're comfortable with.

 

[WillyZee]

smoking never had the hobby or camaraderie of vaping ... vape for the win.

 

[Topacka]

smoking never had the hobby or camaraderie of vaping ... vape for the win.

I beg to differ, if you look at pipe, hookah or cigar smoking, the hobby aspect is strong. Collecting cigars, buying high end pipes, hookah gear and the first edition cloud chasers. Most forms of tobacco have a hobby aspect, it's really only cigarettes that don't.

 

[LaDiablo]

I've not met anyone who vapes but never smoked. Is it a fad now for the younger generation to start vaping instead of starting to smoke?

Yes! It is actually becoming quite common. The ECR subreddit gets threads from several people each day who are looking at vaping but who have never smoked. The common consensus over there is to warn them that there are still risks and encourage them to use 0 nic or at least low nic (many people like the buzz of nicotine but do not become regular smokers because of cost/smell/health risks/stigma/etc). Dr. Konstantinos Farsalinos, the scientist behind much of the ecig research, did a study of 4,618 ecig users and found that 8.9% of regular users had never been smokers. (Study here)

Now I'm not advocating for ecig regulation by ANY means, but it is a valid point that vaping is seen as harmless when that is not necessarily the case, and that has been an allure to non-smokers as well. This is why the harm reduction argument (which I 100% agree with) cannot be the ONLY argument for ecigarettes to stick around.

 

[makeyourself]

The issue as I see it is people who quit smoking and started vaping are coming at this from the perspective of harm reduction. We do know what smoking does to you. There are certain things we can assume, at best, as to why vaping is less harmful that smoking. But if you come in here trying to justify vaping for someone who has never smoked with a "What's the harm?" argument the fact is we don't know and you don't either. It may be a considered a "hobby" to a non smoker, but you will have to get back to us in 20 years or so and then tell us what the harm is or is not. Right now with more and more people cloud chasing and ingesting larger and larger amounts of the contents in vaping liquids "What the harm"? keeps being a moving target with no research to answer that question.

This is the post I most agree with. I think non-smokers should be free to make their own decisions but I wouldn't encourage a non-smoker to vape for the reasons stated above. When comparing vaping with the risk-profile of products like snus, the research does need to be done for confirmation I think as there are obviously distinct differences between to the two (snus is smokeless and vapourless and isn't inhaled, eliquids contain chemicals that snus doesn't, etc).

Also with the gateway argument, I think the stuff from governments and the media is mostly scare tactics, I agree with those who say that ecigs are by far and large a gateway out of smoking as opposed to into it and are likely to remain that way. However I definitely don't think it would be a good idea for a non-smoker to start vaping nicotine-containing liquids. I don't think that being addicted to anything is ideal and the chances of moving on to smoking are unknown even though they are very likely being vastly exaggerated.

 

[twgbonehead]

I beg to differ, if you look at pipe, hookah or cigar smoking, the hobby aspect is strong. Collecting cigars, buying high end pipes, hookah gear and the first edition cloud chasers. Most forms of tobacco have a hobby aspect, it's really only cigarettes that don't.

In college: Sobrane Black Russians
Black cigarettes, with a gold filter. Outrageously expensive, something like $2.50/pack.
Even though they were way too strong for me, I choked them down on special occasions, because they were ummmmm.....
Maybe because they looked cool? Or splurging on them for 1 night made it special? I liked them much less than the Marlboros I smoked at the time (or that might even have been in my Kools stage).

Yeah, that was a long time ago, but there has always been some dimension where cigarettes and cool coincide; these days it might be "American Spirit".

 

[Topacka]

In college: Sobrane Black Russians
Black cigarettes, with a gold filter. Outrageously expensive, something like $2.50/pack.
Even though they were way too strong for me, I choked them down on special occasions, because they were ummmmm.....
Maybe because they looked cool? Or splurging on them for 1 night made it special? I liked them much less than the Marlboros I smoked at the time (or that might even have been in my Kools stage).

Yeah, that was a long time ago, but there has always been some dimension where cigarettes and cool coincide; these days it might be "American Spirit".

I agree, you could also look at collecting lighters as an example.

Also the flavors behind smokeless tobacco make a parallel to vaping.