Computer glitch delays Obamacare provision allowing healthcare insurers to charge tobacco users up to 50% higher premiums

[Bill Godshall]

Computer glitch delays Obamacare provision allowing healthcare insurers to charge tobacco users up to 50% higher premiums.
A break for smokers? Glitch may limit penalties
Computer Snag Limits Insurance Penalties on Smokers - NYTimes.com


An even bigger glitch is going to occur when tobacco users (who face higher premiums due to their tobacco use) sign up for a smoking cessation program to prevent paying higher premiums, and then continue using tobacco.

Please note that this punitive provision in Obamacare won't affect people who obtain healthcare insurance through their employer, Medicare, Medicaid or the VA, but rather will only impact some folks who purchase individual healthcare insurance policies.

 

[2coils]

In the article, the Word SMOKER is used a lot. Has the definition of a smoker been clarified? Has tobacco use been clarified? Are insurance companies going after us? I am sure they would like to. If so can it be fought?

 

[stauglocal]

How would they know if you use tobacco or not? Do they test you for nicotine? If so, you could just say that you use the patch or gum.

 

[Kurt]

They could test for carbon monoxide to differentiate between just-nicotine users and smokers. But chances are it will be just a nicotine test, which generally actually tests for cotinine, the metabolyte of nicotine.

 

[Petrodus]

There's going to be a lot of people upset
when this train wreck is fully implemented.

 

[aikanae1]

From my understanding, vapers don't test as smokers instead the results come back as if they live with a smoker. This would explode the ecig industry.

 

[2coils]

There's going to be a lot of people upset
when this train wreck is fully implemented.

You crack me up. I read your comment and left the thread and just started laughing a minute later. Im sorry, I just see you throwing these jabs throughout these threads and most are very funny, no disrespect intended!!

 

[aikanae1]

You crack me up. I read your comment and left the thread and just started laughing a minute later. Im sorry, I just see you throwing these jabs throughout these threads and most are very funny, no disrespect intended!!

"It's all Obama's fault"
yup. even though congress can't pass a thing.

 

[Petrodus]

"It's all Obama's fault"
yup. even though congress can't pass a thing.

The government is broken ...
All of their hands are dirty.

 

[2coils]

the government is broken ...
All of their hands are dirty.

indeed!!!!

 

[NorthOfAtlanta]

"It's all Obama's fault"
yup. even though congress can't pass a thing.

Both sides have fault, but I would remind you that the Democrats controlled the House and Senate when it passed. Remember Nancy saying you can read it after we pass it?

 

[Bill Godshall]

twocoils inquired:

Are insurance companies going after us? I am sure they would like to. If so can it be fought?

Even if insurance companies are allowed to charge tobacco users up to 50% higher healthcare insurance premiums, I'd be surprised if any would actually do so because no tobacco user would agree to buy such an outrageously overpriced policy.

Daily smokers incur 10%-20% higher healthcare costs than non tobacco users, while other half of tobacco users (i.e. smokeless tobacco users, cigar and pipe smokers, occasional cigarette smokers) incur no higher healthcare costs than non tobacco users.

So any insurance company that does a little bit of actuarial research (or that reads my stuff) will realize that it can make a profit and can sell insurance policies by charging smokers 10%-20% higher premiums, and by charging other tobacco users the same rate as non tobacco users.

If/when one insurance company offers these rates for smokers and other tobacco users, other insurance companies (who want those customers) will lower their rates accordingly (just like all airlines reduce their rates to match the lowest priced competitor).

In sum, tobacco users and insurers will determine which insurance policies tobacco users will buy and how much they pay in a competitive market.

The other problem with this provision in Obamacare is that if tobacco users can legally avoid any premium increase by signing up for a tobacco cessation program, most or all tobacco users (who face higher premiums) will simply sign up for the program (to avoid paying a higher rate) as they continue to use tobacco.

 

[2coils]

twocoils inquired:



Even if insurance companies are allowed to charge tobacco users up to 50% higher healthcare insurance premiums, I'd be surprised if any would actually do so because no tobacco user would agree to buy such an outrageously overpriced policy.

Daily smokers incur 10%-20% higher healthcare costs than non tobacco users, while other half of tobacco users (i.e. smokeless tobacco users, cigar and pipe smokers, occasional cigarette smokers) incur no higher healthcare costs than non tobacco users.

So any insurance company that a little bit of actuarial research (or that reads my stuff) will realize that it can make a profit and can sell insurance policies by charging smokers 10%-20% higher premiums, and by charging other tobacco users the same rate as non tobacco users.

If/when one insurance company offers these rates for smokers and other tobacco users, other insurance companies (who want those customers) will lower their rates accordingly (just like all airlines reduce their rates to match the lowest priced competitor).

In sum, tobacco users and insurers will determine which insurance policies tobacco users will buy and how much they pay in a competitive market.

The other problem with this provision in Obamacare is that if tobacco users can legally avoid any premium increase by signing up for a tobacco cessation program, most or all tobacco users (who face higher premiums) will simply sign up for the program (to avoid paying a higher rate) as they continue to use tobacco.

Thanks for your perspective, seems to make good sense IMO.

 

[glowplug]

Good to read the comment about serum indicators for nicotine. Smokers also have higher hematocrit numbers due to the need for more red blood cells to carry oxygen to combat all the other chemicals inhaled from cigarettes. However, people living in higher altitudes also have higher hematocrit numbers due to the number of red blood cells needed to carry oxygen in the "thinner" air. Trivia: that's why many sports teams, olympian athletes, etc. train in the Rockies (gotta love CO). Increased hematocrit = better oxygenation for the them and they believe this creates enhanced performance. I live in the Denver metro area and we are actually pretty low altitude compared to other areas. A mile high just isn't all that big of a deal in this area!

 

[BuGlen]

Good to read the comment about serum indicators for nicotine. Smokers also have higher hematocrit numbers due to the need for more red blood cells to carry oxygen to combat all the other chemicals inhaled from cigarettes. However, people living in higher altitudes also have higher hematocrit numbers due to the number of red blood cells needed to carry oxygen in the "thinner" air. Trivia: that's why many sports teams, olympian athletes, etc. train in the Rockies (gotta love CO). Increased hematocrit = better oxygenation for the them and they believe this creates enhanced performance. I live in the Denver metro area and we are actually pretty low altitude compared to other areas. A mile high just isn't all that big of a deal in this area!

Off topic: So, is everyone living in Denver and the immediate surrounding area automatically a member of the mile-high club?

 

[DC2]

Remember Nancy saying you can read it after we pass it?

I don't think there was ever a more telling statement made by any politician in recent times.
And this is where I do not comment further on elected officials from California.

 

[DC2]

Trivia: that's why many sports teams, olympian athletes, etc. train in the Rockies (gotta love CO). Increased hematocrit = better oxygenation for the them and they believe this creates enhanced performance. I live in the Denver metro area and we are actually pretty low altitude compared to other areas. A mile high just isn't all that big of a deal in this area!

Trivia: Did you know that nicotine is being considered as a performance enhancing drug by the World Anti-Doping Agency?

Nicotine could be put on list of banned substances - Olympics - ESPN

WADA has received a report from its accredited laboratory in Lausanne, Switzerland, that describes "alarming evidence" of nicotine use by athletes across 43 sports studied.

"WADA and sport federations should evaluate the inclusion of nicotine to the Prohibited List or/and Monitoring Program," the Lausanne lab reported after a year-long study published by the Forensic Science International journal.

The performance-enhancing effects of nicotine included increased "vigilance and cognitive function," and reduced stress and body weight.

"Interestingly, nicotine also triggers a significant increase of pulse rate, blood pressure, blood sugar and epinephrine release owing to simultaneous stimulant and relaxant properties," the report said.

"Smokeless tobacco is a very attractive drug from a doping perspective," researchers suggested, because it did not damage an athlete's breathing and respiratory system.

 

[jpwr25]

From my understanding, vapers don't test as smokers instead the results come back as if they live with a smoker. This would explode the ecig industry.

Speaking purely from personal experience, the Wife and I (both vapers) had cotinine levels consistent with cigarette use at our last insurance physical, so don't bank on vaping getting you out of trouble if your insurance company makes you sign a nicotine use affidavit like mine does. Additionally, my workplace (a hospital) has recently gone out of their way to include vaping in their tobacco free campus and health coaching policies.

 

[Petrodus]

Speaking purely from personal experience, the Wife and I (both vapers) had cotinine levels consistent with cigarette use at our last insurance physical, so don't bank on vaping getting you out of trouble if your insurance company makes you sign a nicotine use affidavit like mine does. Additionally, my workplace (a hospital) has recently gone out of their way to include vaping in their tobacco free campus and health coaching policies.

Well ... maybe we could start a White House petition campaign ... ??
Never mind ... we already tried that !!

 

[CactusRose]

What studies have y'all found on good vs bad on nicotine? From what I've been reading, the good far outweighs the bad, but I can't find any definitive answer on how much it affects heart rate and blood pressure. Actually, it sounds like a miracle drug. No wonder we couldn't quit smoking.

JPWR, I work in the health field also. They are really cracking down, and soon we won't be able to be employed. I was hoping vaping would be a viable alternative, but I'm not holding my breath.