Concern: Initial price < Maintenance price

[Sebbas]

I'm fairly new to the PV scene. I've tried a number of different vapes off of others, but it's all been the kinds you see at mall stalls.

I've come here and I've had my mind blown as to how many options there are out there, and how much the mall brands I'm vaguely familiar with are looked down on. I'm so overwhelmed that in the past two days, I've already put down about 4 hours of research and I feel like I'm barely getting anywhere past the general basics. There are simply too many brands and too many options for me to feel like I can make my first purchase really count as much as it could without asking for advice.

I hate to be the type to ask questions too early, but I feel like I already got as much as I'm going to get from general readings, so it's come to this.

I'm looking to get a PV of which initial pricing is of little concern but maintenance pricing is the main focus. I seek quality vapor, and I'm willing to do more reading and labor (sans modding) to keep maintenance as economic as possible. I suppose this means I'll be using a refillable model. Size/looks are not a concern.

The Joye Ego-C is a contender, but I've seen so many veteran members of this esteemed forum sneer at it that it concerns me.

 

[sailorman]

Hi. You've come to the right place. If you want minimum maintenance costs, you're going to want to stay away from an e-cig that relies on proprietary parts. That includes special atomizers, batteries and cartridges or tanks. You'll wnat something that uses off-the-shelf lithium batteries and any brand of compatible cartomizers or atomizers.

That disqualifies the "sealed battery" types of devices. That also disqualifies the eGo-T and eGo-C, as they are "systems" that rely on their own proprietary atomizers and what they call tanks.

The 510 thread pattern is the most versatile and more attachments and atomizers are available for that type than any other. So, you will want something that 1) Takes a generic battery and 2) uses a 510 type connection.

Then, the only other main consideration is the build quality. There are few ecigs that require any degree of routine maintenance beyond occasional wiping with a q-tip and alcohol or cleaning battery contacts.

99.9% of your maintenance cost will be in replacing consumable parts like atomizers and cartomizers. If you stay away from the proprietary trap, those costs will be the same regardless of what e-cig you buy.

As for build quality, most e-cigs that will be recommended by the people here are decent quality. There are mass produced e-cigs from China and hand built American models. There is a point of diminishing returns that happens pretty quick once you get into the range of over $100 or so. After that, you are paying for features and aesthetics.

A $90 Silver Bullet from Altsmoke is a fixed voltage PV that is nearly indestructible. It will outlast probably any PV in existence, even models costing $300. A Provari is a high quality machine with variable voltage. It costs $200 for the kit with batteries, etc. The build quality is no better, but you are paying for the electronics and the fact that it's a variable voltage. The Reo is a handmade, top quality fixed votage box shaped mod. It is around $200, but you're paying for the artistry and craftsmanship. The Alpha, from Innovapor, is about $200 and fixed voltage. It's built like an airplane and will never cost you a dime in maintenance.

So, if intitial cost is of no concern, don't get an eGo anything. There is really no significant maintenance cost to any mod that doesn't rely on proprietary consumable parts. You need to figure out what level of complexity you'll be comfortable with. What form factor do you like (square, cylindrical, wood, metal)? Do you want something to last all day between charges? Do you want something "pocket friendly"? Any good PV, equipped with the right cartomizer or atomizer will provide quality vapor. The juice has as much to do with that as anything else.

You will get a lot of people pushing the Provari. It's about the best variable voltage PV generally available. If that appeals to you, by all means go for it. But the maintenance costs won't be any lower than for any number of other quality PVs on the market. There are other things to consider.

My suggestion is not to go overboard and pay a bunch of money for a PV that will last so long it becomes obsolete. You can buy a $90 PV that'll last you 10 or 15 years, or you can buy a $300 one that'll last you until it's electronics are old news and you could have bought 3 more up to date ones for the same outlay in cash. Bottom line is that no $100 PV is likely to cost you anything in maintenance and by the time it dies, you'll be looking for an upgrade anyway.

Hope this helped a little.

 

[KernalTie]

Joye-C saved me from smoking. It's popular but not like a VV, box-mod, Provari. It's like you got a new car but the guys give you crap because you didn't stick a dual-hemi-quad-fuel injected-boxster engine in it and crank the suspension, etc. It's good and when you get your footing it's customizable, I recommend it, yo.

 

[JENerationX]

My first non-crap brand was the Smokeless Image Volt 78mm batteries with cartomizers. Simple. No fuss. Then I started trying other juices and refilling the cartos myself. Even now, I'm using those when I'm out and about. They're cheap enough that you can use a few batteries in rotation and never worry about the charging time. Vape production is good. Even the veterans will stand by the performance of these.

Now I'm using the Volt X2 batteries. The 650mah is about the size of a cigar with their clearomizers. I like being able to see the liquid and the battery lasts 6+ hours so gets me through a whole day of vaping time.

There is no wrong place to start. You need to decide what's important to you. How simple do you want it? How often do you want to charge batteries? Refilling cuts cost a lot, but you will have to dabble a little to find juices you like etc. It's going to be a journey. Don't overwhelm yourself. Find something with good reviews and just try it.

This is what sold me on Smokeless Image.

 

[sailorman]

It's not a matter of that with the eGo C or T. You can customize it sure. But you're paying for that "C" and that "T". Then, you find out that it isn't what it's cracked up to be and you "customize" it with a normal cartomizer. So, what you've done is reduced it to a battery. The same battery you could have gotten for half the price in the first place.

Joye saw everyone clone their eGo. To distinguish themselves from the clones, they've attempted to revive the old obsolete cartidge/atomizer system. They've given it a facelift and found a way to hook people into buying atomizers and tanks (cartridges) from them. We used to call them cartridges. They call them tanks. They don't work much better than the old cartridges we used to use a few years ago.

So, you pay $70 for an eGo that puts out 3.4Volts and you have to throw away when it wears out. You could have paid $50-75 for a PV that takes cartomizers in the first place, and that you don't have to throw away when the battery dies, and that provides 4.2 to 3.7 volts.

That's what's wrong with the eGo "systems". When you get rid of your special Joye tanks and atomizers, you would have been better off spending half as much on an e-Power that you don't throw away when the battery dies.

 

[sailorman]

The volt uses a horizontal bottom coil Kanger. Just like the ones you can buy, except they're an 808 thread.
Nothing wrong with a Volt for a starter e-cig, especially if you smoke less than a pack a day or so. It's the best of an otherwise very sorry lot of mini-ecigs. But the OP wants lowest operating costs and the Volt is not that. He also wants top vapor production. The volt vapes at less than 6 watts. That's not top vapor production and that's why Steeljan used less juice in her review.

Anything with proprietary batteries and a limited number of places to get replacement parts is not going to provide the lowest operating/maintenance costs.

My batteries are 2200mah, last almost 2 days and a pair will last 2 years before I have to replace them for $10 each, and that's only if I get the best ones on the market. I vape at 8 to 10 watts or more and recharge them when the voltage drops to the point where it's still higher than the volt is when it's hot off the charger. I can buy 25 cartomizers for $23 shipped. I don't need low resistance cartos, so they last longer than the 2.5 or 2.2 ohm cartos on the volt.

That's low operating and maintenance cost.

 

[FsckCigs]

Good choices and points in the above posts. However, I would not neccesarily discount the possibility of going with the eGo stuff (though i'd skip the kit and just buy batts/charger) especially if size is of any concern. Most of the advanced PVs are (relatively) large and for some people that makes them impractical. You can get a respectable quality of vape using an eGo and 2ohm-ish cartos which is sufficient enough for many vapers that they never feel a need to ever look further. All in all, even factoring in the periodic replacement of the batteries, a very economical choice.

E-liquid is an area where expenses can add up pretty quickly at first (hoo boy, can they ever), but this can be minimized by purchasing only small sample sizes until you find juices you're sure you like...which can then be purchased in larger or even bulk amounts at a lower cost per ml. DIY (making your own e-liquid) is far more economical, but comes with it's own "flavor quest" issues.

By the way, I wouldn't be too worried if you read posts here regarding the amount of money spent vaping, as a LOT of the costs referred to are voluntarily incurred when one's vaping progresses beyond using a single PV (or type of PV) and moves along into the collecting of multiple mods, or constantly upgrading to the latest greatest thing...none of which is necessary, but rather represents more of a hobbiest approach to vaping.

Frankly, in looking towards long-term expense in vaping...I'd be (and am) mostly concerned with the cost of e-liquid, specifically nicotine, which may very well become subject to regulation and taxation in the coming year or two. I'm not saying "omg stockpile nicotine-liquid immediately!!!" but I would suggest keeping a close eye on the situation. There will be advance notice as any such legislation moves along, but if/when it hits i won't be surprised if it raises the cost of vaping to levels similar to the expense of analogs. At that point, my freezer will be my friend as never before !

Wish you the best in your quest, and don't let the tonnage of info overwhelm you too much. It's really not as complicated as it appears to be now. Just a lot of variations on a few basic themes.

 

[sailorman]

For anyone who likes the form factor of the eGos, the best bang-for-the-buck will come from an e-Power.
Unlike the eGo, the e-Power is not disposable. It takes 14650 batteries like a flashlight. When the battery dies, you don't throw the whole thing away and pay $15-20 for another one. You buy a $5 battery.

The e-Power puts out from 3.7 to 4.1 volts. When the battery drains to 3.3V, it shuts off. The eGo puts out 3.4 volts hot off the charger.

The e-Power has a replaceable switch. If the switch fails, you don't throw out the whole thing and buy another one. You buy a switch for <$10.

You can get a complete e-Power kit with spare batteries, charger and cartomizers and 30ml of juice for $57 shipped via priority mail.

Crystal Clear Vaping

An eGo C will cost you considerably more.

There is really no good reason to get an eGo anymore. There are better alternatives.

 

[FsckCigs]

Just to keep the facts factual:
The current version of Joye eGo switches between regulated 3.4 mode and unregulated "actual battery voltage" mode.
The current version is also available in a passthrough (USB) configuration which allows it to be used while charging...a very useful feature to some folks.
A variable-voltage eGo (Twist) is also shipping.

A consideration with the e-power is it's threading...eGo-threaded devices like the Vision eGo Clearomizer (aka "Stardust") and the EMDCC cartos will not fit e-power without an adapter.

 

[Reidus]

I agree with Sailorman. I use a E-Power 14650 that I got at CCV. It has a 1060mahm battery. You don't mention battery life as a priority; it should be an important consideration. A rule of thumb is that 100mahm=1 hour of vaping time. That's not necessarily true. What is true is that the larger the mahms, the longer you can go before having to recharge.

Since vapor production is a priority for you (as well it should be) here's short lesson. Vapor production is a function of the juice and heat. Juices high in VG make more vapor than juices high in PG. They also have less flavor (PG is used in all sorts of food products, including coke, etc. as a flavor carrier). As far as heat goes, use a LR cartomizer (or carto). Heat is measured in amps (this is a grossly incomplete statement and any electrician out there will probably stone me, but it's useful for purposes of this discussion). You can figure out the amps produced by using the following formula:

Amps = volts/ohm

That is the voltage your device fires at divided by the ohms of the carto. In my case, my E-power fires at a consistent 3.7v and my carto is 1.7ohms. This gives me roughly 2.18 amps, which produces a great amount of warm vapor. I'm getting (hopefully today) some Boge 2.0 LR cartos which will give me roughly 1.8 amps, producing somewhat less vapor that's a bit cooler. That said, LR uses more battery life than a standard resistance device; that's why you don't want to use them with batteries less than 650mahms. The best discussion I've seen on this is Steeljan's discussion at the link below:

Low Res, High Volts, 3.7V, 5V, VV? Wtf?!! - YouTube

 

[Kay1959]

Well, my two cents are this. If initial cost are not important to you, but maintance costs are. I'd go with an APV. Something with an AW-IMR battery. One that takes only one battery. The reason for this is, the unit may be more expensive up front, but to buy more batteries later on is cheaper than say something like an eGo. So you're looking at something like the Lavatube, SilverBullet, Provari etc. I think you'd do well to find one that's variable voltage and holds a 18650 AWIMR battery. And get a good charger to start with...something like a Pila charger.

 

[TommyG]

Wanted to second the altsmoke mods for durrability, but anything with nonpropriatary(butchered) batteries and 510 threadding is going to be the way to go. I use myomega and silver bullet more than anything, but something like a provari is nice because many people move from fixed to variable voltage(not everyone, put plenty do).

 

[D. Waterhouse]

Well, my two cents are this. If initial cost are not important to you, but maintance costs are. I'd go with an APV. Something with an AW-IMR battery. One that takes only one battery. The reason for this is, the unit may be more expensive up front, but to buy more batteries later on is cheaper than say something like an eGo. So you're looking at something like the Lavatube, SilverBullet, Provari etc. I think you'd do well to find one that's variable voltage and holds a 18650 AWIMR battery. And get a good charger to start with...something like a Pila charger.

As a Vet who just revamped his mod set-up I have to say +1 on the AW IMRs as for the charger I chose the Xtar and some extra spacers from RTD vapor.

My recommendation for a Mod/Apv would be something simple and cheap like a Box Mod, Gripper, or Roughstack (also Maxi Roughstack) from Madvapes.

 

[ctourtelot]

For anyone who likes the form factor of the eGos, the best bang-for-the-buck will come from an e-Power.
Unlike the eGo, the e-Power is not disposable. It takes 14650 batteries like a flashlight. When the battery dies, you don't throw the whole thing away and pay $15-20 for another one. You buy a $5 battery.

The e-Power puts out from 3.7 to 4.1 volts. When the battery drains to 3.3V, it shuts off. The eGo puts out 3.4 volts hot off the charger.

The e-Power has a replaceable switch. If the switch fails, you don't throw out the whole thing and buy another one. You buy a switch for <$10.

You can get a complete e-Power kit with spare batteries, charger and cartomizers and 30ml of juice for $57 shipped via priority mail.

Crystal Clear Vaping

An eGo C will cost you considerably more.

There is really no good reason to get an eGo anymore. There are better alternatives.

I will see your CCV 14650 E-Power for $57 and raise you an 18650 E-Power with charger, 2-2200mah batteries and case for $45 shipped ($40 with coupon code SWEET)

Sweet-Vapes

 

[DaveP]

If you want to look around at what's available and browse the features and retail prices, go here. Click the "browse by features" link below the menu to selection a list that shows PV's by the attributes you want. This database has review rating in in 8 categories and a good list of features for each, along with color pictures.

Best e-Cig Mod List | e-Cig Mods Database

Variable voltage is where it's at if you want to be able to try various resistances and higher end options. Some juices are tastier at 4.2v and others are good at 3.7v. It takes current capacity to drive some of the optional cartos and atomizers to their best levels. In a mod, I'd agree that an 18650 IMR battery is a good choice. It's a safer chemistry that won't explode, vent catastrophically, or present a danger other than high heat if it fails. Stay away from dual battery mods. Those have been the ones in the news stories where people had their faces lit up and lost teeth.

 

[jersey girl]

If you are looking long term to reduce maintenance price. Then I vote for the e-power also. All the parts are replaceable at a reasonable cost. My set up is a 14650 e-power with 1.7 ohm single or dual coil lR cartomizers. It produces lot of vapor and I only use 70pg/30vg juice.

The down side is you can not use ego 510 threaded on it with out an adaptor. But you can purchase an adaptor/spacer for it.

Also it is very easy to carry a spare battery with you rather then a whole set up.

Take a look at them and see what you think.

 

[elfstone]

My suggestion is not to go overboard and pay a bunch of money for a PV that will last so long it becomes obsolete. You can buy a $90 PV that'll last you 10 or 15 years, or you can buy a $300 one that'll last you until it's electronics are old news and you could have bought 3 more up to date ones for the same outlay in cash.

I apologize to the OP for the irrelevance of this comment to the present question.

I just wanted to muse on how the Russians got the right idea: a tube mod with indefinite usable life, and all mechanical parts combined with rebuildable and replaceable atomizers, along with a variety of "plug-ins" (variable voltage, regulated voltage, variable voltaga&wattage, extensions for different batteries, tanks of various sizes, etc.) that can be screwed on to the tube. When / if the electronics go bad, you still have the mechanical default. Just screw off the bad plugin and screw on a mechanical switch. If batteries you like are no longer made, you have a way to fit in other types.

To a limited extent, this is available here, now with mechanical mods some with extension sleeve, and the Kick. To another extent, the GG family offers that type of flexibility as well.

But I see the best way towards a maximum value, maximum durability and flexibility in some form of interop standards that would allow mixing and matching tubes and switches and regulators and so forth... Maybe with that DNA board modders will be more able to offer such a thing soon!

Obviously, such sustainability is achievable only with a rebuildable atomizer so I'm looking forward to new developments in that. It's almost disturbing how bad vaping is at sustainability and ethical sourcing: we use millions of disposable cartomizers and atomizers which are made to fail, but built out of materials that could last a lifetime; and these are made in Chinese sweatshops by people earning probably a few dollars a month. I am counting the days until I will be able to stop using disposable heads for good. Not that the same gives Apple users any qualms (I'm singling Apple out because the users are supposedly more "hip" and politically conscious, but all consumer electronics share the same environmentally and macroeconomically catastrophic business model)...

 

[wv2win]

I agree with the suggestions of the E-Power, especially over the eGo. The E-Power batteries are 1050 mAh (bigger numbers are better) and cost about $4.00 where as the eGo standard battery is 650 mAh and cost $15 - $20 from a maintenance standpoint.

If you like the Kgo/eGo/E-Power form factor but want to try a simple selectable/variable model, then look at the new EVO which is in the approximate same price range:

http://www.sweet-vapes.com/shop?page=shop.browse&category_id=34

If you want the one model that has a lifetime warranty, has a legion of satisfied users and is just a little over $100, then look at the 5 volt GLV2:

GLV-2 Electronic Cigarette [GLV-2] - $120.00 : Electronic Cigarettes and E-Liquid - Great Lakes Vapor

 

[Raider Chic]

I love my Ego-t!! I put a Vision/Stargazer atty on it and absolutely love it. You can find the Joyetech Ego-t for as low at $40 on some sites and the atty is only $5.95 (unless you can find a sale) on gotvapes.com. Finding your signature juice will be trial and error...but to me that is the fun part!

a vape'n fool I am.

 

[sailorman]

I will see your CCV 14650 E-Power for $57 and raise you an 18650 E-Power with charger, 2-2200mah batteries and case for $45 shipped ($40 with coupon code SWEET)

Sweet-Vapes

That's a nice deal, no doubt. The current price is $40 without a coupon code. The only drawback to that model is that, unlike the other one, the switch is not separate. But that is a good price for sure, especially if you like acres of chrome.

Personally, I prefer larger batteries, but I was keeping the recommendations as close to the eGo form factor as possible because the OP expressed that he was considering and eGo-C. The 18650 is considerably more bulky than the 14650 and, IMO, not built as nicely. If he's o.k. with the larger sizes, and money is not the issue, he'd be best to skip the e-Powers altogether and go straight for the Bullet. There is no lower maintenance cost than zero.

The original point remains. If you want the lowest long-term operation and maintenance costs, don't buy a disposable e-cig, no matter what they hang on the end of it.