Consider the possibility we lose

[freeatlast!]

The possibility of not being able to get it anymore, or at a reasonable price, was one of my motivations for going to 0 nic, and is a good reason to quit altogether, I guess. That would be a private or personal solution, but doesn't solve the problem for all the people out there who "need" their nic, or who still smoke and can't quit through other NRTs....

 

[WillyZee]

Someone needs to figure out how to crank out powdered or solid nicotine pellets we can store with little degradation in concentration for decades. Then you just need to get flavor and PG/VG mixed and add the nicotine. Only reason I don't stock up on 100mg nicotine base is I don't have freezer space to stick 2 decades of it away and keep below 32 degrees.

Time for a small freezer .... only thing worse than being a smoker when nicotine is scarce and the eJuice taxes take off ... is being a vaper with no juice and the only choice is cigalikes or expensive juice options like Marlboro and Camel.

How much are those little freezers by the way?

 

[supertrunker]

Depends if your or the wife choose it!

T

 

[SleeZy]

It's mostly the nicotine they are after. Atleast in sweden.

They recently won a court case that now says that e juice with nicotine "can be used as medication therapy"
So they want e juice with nictoine in them classified as medicine. Which sadly went through. But they're now taking it to a higher court. So we'll see what happens.
Then we have the EU who wants super silly ban/limits on our vaping equipment. Such as no bigger tank than 2ml and no bigger than 10ml bottles etc.

 

[Penn]

Ask yourself this... of all the dumb things they've ever done have they ever done anything that hurts their tax revenue? Not likely!

They can do alot of damage to this industry without banning it outright, that's what I'd gladly fight for, but the scare of them eliminating the market, that will never happen. It could get really bad to where no one would want to even try it and that would be just as bad but it's not going away. They've even tried to ban all imports from china in the past.

The current powers that be? Everything I see "them" doing to protect their tax revenue is doing the opposite. That is the reason "we" will lose. If not this round, the next one or the one after that.

Most direct historical parallel is smoking. The original sin taxes weren't that much so people didn't like it but kept up their "sins". Increase a bit more, same result. Keep increasing and eventually people started to quit but the bottom line (tax revenue) didn't drop so the claim became "we want people to quit". Enough quit to hurt the bottom line. Time to protect the revenue. How? Increase the rate. More people quit. More lost revenue. Increase more. Cycle continues thinking "eventually the hard core smokers will be all that's left and we can recoup from them". New York leads that charge. Now people selling black market cigarettes are killed in the name of protecting that tax revenue. Everyone loses.

 

[supertrunker]

Which pre-supposes an expanding population, because then you can still have more smokers that make up less of the population. but with one that is ageing and quitting at the same time, not so much.

Kill me for tax revenue? i reckon i'm worth more alive!

T

 

[Baditude]

I have two mechanical mods (2 Silver Bullets) and two Provari's. Plenty of batteries and chargers for each.

I have three RBA's. The FDA can not ban Kanthal wire or organic cotton.

I've recently cut my nic level down to 6mg or zero. I've even been vaping straight Vg (vegetable glycerin). I'm at the point where I don't really need nicotine, but still enjoy and depend upon the hand-to-mouth behavior and inhaling/exhaling vapor.

 

[denali_41]

I could not disagree more. Heavy regulation as stated in the deeming proposal would be a big-time loss. Only big-tobacco companies selling cig-a-likes and disposables have pockets deep enough to jump through the registration and new product application hoops.

There is no practical way for an individual (non-chemist) to extract a meaningful amount of clean, pure,nicotine from any source.

Disagree all you want,even to the point of missing out on getting nic from a new and renewable source ..i have access to this source within 100ft of me at this very moment !!!! this source has been around and utilized for 100's of years ,but has been a very closely guarder secret because of its potency

I have two mechanical mods (2 Silver Bullets) and two Provari's. Plenty of batteries and chargers for each.

I have three RBA's. The FDA can not ban Kanthal wire or organic cotton.

I've recently cut my nic level down to 6mg or zero. I've even been vaping straight Vg (vegetable glycerin). I'm at the point where I don't really need nicotine, but still enjoy and depend upon the hand-to-mouth behavior and inhaling/exhaling vapor.

same with me,,but i have a little bigger stockpile of toys

 

[denali_41]

I could not disagree more. Heavy regulation as stated in the deeming proposal would be a big-time loss. Only big-tobacco companies selling cig-a-likes and disposables have pockets deep enough to jump through the registration and new product application hoops.

btw,,,BT already has their products on the shelf and ready to go

 

[Wow1420]

btw,,,BT already has their products on the shelf and ready to go

Have you read the FDA deeming proposal? ALL products (that weren't already on the market in 2007) will have to go through the new product registration process or prove substantial equivalence to a 2007 product. That will be a costly and time consuming process.

 

[Wow1420]

Disagree all you want,even to the point of missing out on getting nic from a new and renewable source ..i have access to this source within 100ft of me at this very moment !!!! this source has been around and utilized for 100's of years ,but has been a very closely guarder secret because of its potency

Well, if you're going to keep the secret source a secret, I'm not really missing out on anything am I?

Whatever it is, I'm sure it has all the same (or more) difficulties as extracting nicotine from tobacco.

 

[Nermal]

You got it, Wow. Secret sounds a lot like gossip.

 

[tomsa34]

Regardless of the source its the process involved in the extraction. Once you have people haphazordly synthing/extracting nicotine from various plants is when you run into people possibly hurting themselves or others. There is going to be a whole new underground sect to ecigs if things go that route, lets pray the damn fda hears what we have to say.

 

[SleeZy]

Regardless of the source its the process involved in the extraction. Once you have people haphazordly synthing/extracting nicotine from various plants is when you run into people possibly hurting themselves or others. There is going to be a whole new underground sect to ecigs if things go that route, lets pray the damn fda hears what we have to say.

You can make extracts rather easily, however making it pure is another thing. And i'm pretty sure it's not too good to vape contaminated extracts. So if you don't have the knowledge i wouldn't recommend it.

But yea this will be a big issue incase FDA / EU. (They want pretty much the same thing that's why i compare them.) If they get through with their bs. If it comes down to the use of the black market then we could have real issues with vaping.

 

[denali_41]

Have you read the FDA deeming proposal? ALL products (that weren't already on the market in 2007) will have to go through the new product registration process or prove substantial equivalence to a 2007 product. That will be a costly and time consuming process.

and how will that be a problem for BT ?? remember they have lobbists already in place

Whatever it is, I'm sure it has all the same (or more) difficulties as extracting nicotine from tobacco.

Regardless of the source its the process involved in the extraction. Once you have people haphazordly synthing/extracting nicotine from various plants is when you run into people possibly hurting themselves or others. .

it has been kept hush hush because it is so easy and readily available,it has been happening for a few hundred + years and nobody has hurt themselves

heres the kicker..none of the kids using have died either

starting to get the picture now ?!?!?

 

[Wow1420]

and how will that be a problem for BT ?? remember they have lobbists already in place

That's my point. BT can deal with the regs. The typical online or B&M juice vendor won't be able to.

it has been kept hush hush because it is so easy and readily available,it has been happening for a few hundred + years and nobody has hurt themselves

heres the kicker..none of the kids using have died either

starting to get the picture now ?!?!?

LOL, No. I'm hopelessly out of tune with what "kids are using" these days.

 

[Bunnykiller]

just give it time.... you will see car races, Pro Golf, X-Games sponsored by Mt. Baker, Provari, Vamo....

 

[Rickb119]

just give it time.... you will see car races, Pro Golf, X-Games sponsored by Mt. Baker, Provari, Vamo....

The Provari 500, the Mt. Baker Mountain Bike Challenge and, the Vamo miniature golf championship. (I own 2 by the way )

 

[JMarca]

Disagree all you want,even to the point of missing out on getting nic from a new and renewable source ..i have access to this source within 100ft of me at this very moment !!!! this source has been around and utilized for 100's of years ,but has been a very closely guarder secret because of its potency

If you mean pesticide grade Nicotine from farmers I'd be really careful. There are additional steps that you have to take after the extraction to make sure it's filtered properly for human consumption.

 

[Jman8]

Now I hate to be the one to play devils advocate here but someone should. What if we lose out against the FDA? What happens if the FDA takes a dump on all of our best intentions and attempts to save vaping as we know it? Where do we go from there? Outside of stock up on mods, coils, juice etc. I realy have no answers myself but many of you are much wiser than myself.

My devil's advocate to your devil's advocate would suggest black market means we will not lose. Some vapers will for sure drop out of that sort of market, many will not. So de facto ban or heavy taxes will be met with black market, plus the authorized market - both co-existing. To think they could put such a hold on nicotine that black market operators couldn't handle it and/or aren't already anticipating it, is what I'd call very naive. If I were black market operator, I'd either be pushing for de facto ban or relishing in the idea of heavy taxation.

Smokes currently has a black market, and is very legal, heavily taxed.

Science, for the most part, appears to favor the vaper.

FDA is at least 90 days, and probably closer to 2 years before anything remotely heavy handed occurs. That means more momentum/growth for the vaping community.

Technological changes over that time span could greatly assist vaping community in ways that are too challenging to predict at this time, but if technological advancements of last 20 years are of any indication, then things are likely to get better on this end.

Clone makers aren't going to stop production simply because of regulations. Who's going to stop Chinese from engaging in cloning?

Most of this (minus the bold items) is under the assumption we "lose." If FDA is either slow (really normal pace for them) or not heavy handed, then sure market as we know it will be impacted because of the ANTZ equation, but genie ain't going back in the bottle. Demand is way too high.