Consumer Product Safety Commission & vaping batteries regulation

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MacTechVpr

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While Mooch's information is good, it only reaches a fraction of the percentage of total vapers. When you have vape shops selling substandard batteries that are labeled 40, 50 and even 60 amp batteries, something is definitely wrong in the industry and there needs to be intervention with severe penalties for those selling those substandard batteries.

Agree with much of what you say including the unscrupulous nature of some downstream from the problem. But there's a ton of law on the books on the fraud of misrepresenting or misclassifying the electrical specs of consumer products already. Why aren't they being applied or modified as needed for the products affecting us? Why is government negligent towards us? Why does it target US instead of those producers and manufacturing re-marketers?

When we jumped headlong into this cesspool of unrestrained international commerce, did no one give this issue of enforcement some thought?

Let government demonstrate it's ability to be accountable before reaching for more power which in fact would curtail our rights of commerce, to buy and sell as we see fit. Let them show they can do so without inflicting greater harm than what they pretend they'll contain. In fact, that is what the law requires and FDA ignored.

I'm open to that discussion.

Good luck. :)
 

93gc40

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And prior to those agencies coming into being, there were countless deaths due to shoddy products, poor manufacturing habits, non-existent testing and dangerous handling of food. So no, we did not do just fine as you were playing Russian Roulette every time you ate a product, took a drug, or used an item.

Common sense regulation will always be needed in order to reign in the unscrupulous.
Common sense regulation is way back in the rear view mirror.. he'll we've even regulated parenting out of being parents......

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MacTechVpr

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Common sense regulation is way back in the rear view mirror.. he'll we've even regulated parenting out of being parents......

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Laws are only as good as they hit the target and are equitably applied. If not, it's fraud on us as well.

Good luck. :)
 

retired1

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Yes, there are existing laws on the books. There was nothing said in the OP about new laws regarding batteries, but rather the enforcement of battery safety was being handed to the CPSC. They're already in a position to enforce product safety so why should the FDA reinvent the wheel and maintain enforcement in house?
 

pt91

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So how do you propose to be safe? Out of the millions of vapers in the US, a tiny fraction are educated on battery safety. The vast majority go into a shop (or order online), get what's recommended to them, and haven't a clue as to what happens when a battery is stressed. The store they bought the device from doesn't educate them, and it's most likely the individual behind the counter was never told anything as well.

This has nothing to do with personal freedoms. Misleading or outright false information from certain manufacturers is just the tip of the iceberg so to speak. When you have vape shops perpetuating that false info, it's time for those involved to be invited to a "Come to Jesus" meeting. Boycotting isn't going to work as you'd most likely never be a customer of that store to begin with. They're already making $$$ from those who don't know better.

Bingo. Thinking instead of reacting takes a bit more effort.
 

MacTechVpr

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Yes, there are existing laws on the books. There was nothing said in the OP about new laws regarding batteries, but rather the enforcement of battery safety was being handed to the CPSC. They're already in a position to enforce product safety so why should the FDA reinvent the wheel and maintain enforcement in house?

My point exactly and a good example. Not opposed to any reasonable solution that actually targets the source of the problem. I think most would agree. But what we have is distraction. And yes, many opportunists.

Good luck. :)
 

mikepetro

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A guy that just retired here at work decided he wanted to quit smoking. He had seen and heard me rave about how successful vaping for me in giving up the stogies.

Now this is a guy who couldnt figure out his voicemail on his phone, nor how to work a FTP program, ie not tech savvy. Unbeknownst to me, he goes out onto the internet and orders a high powered rig. He remembered me telling him that the cig-a-likes didnt have enough azz for me, but the bigger ones did.

So, he's got this 166w device, and low & behold he has "Basen 30Apulse 3500mAh" batteries in it. Said he got them from the same site he got the mod and juice from.

I proceeded to tell him a bit about batteries, and safety, and to how use the mod in temp mode (which was his main question, he was trying to get temp out of a kanthal coil). TBH, he looked at me like I was wearing a tinfoil hat. I also told him about this place, but I dont see him coming here, he is a total techno-phob, if its not about golf he could care less.

Anyway, who is responsible for making sure this guy knows how to use the stuff safely and doesnt blow himself up. I felt "kinda" responsible because I promoted the virtues of vaping to him for years. But really, I didnt make any money off these transactions. Follow the money is where I think the responsibility should lay. But, to be fair, how does some Internet vendor know the skill level of the the guy placing an order?

What we are doing today isnt working. Not all regulations are bad, though any regulation is useless if not enforced.
 

Lessifer

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Anyway, who is responsible for making sure this guy knows how to use the stuff safely and doesnt blow himself up.
In all honesty, he is.

I get what you're saying and I somewhat agree, but in reality, he could be getting batteries from anywhere, and they could have realistic specs on them and warning labels, and he'd still have to read them and understand to keep himself safe.

I was looking at buying an 18650 flashlight a couple weeks ago, it came with a battery and a converter to use three AAA batteries instead.

Even if every mod and every battery came with a 10 page booklet about battery safety, it's up to the consumer to read and understand it.

ETA: Also, there really aren't a disproportionately large number of vapers hurting themselves by abusing batteries, when you compare it to other consumer electronics. There are just people doing everything they can to make it seem like there are.
 

MacTechVpr

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A guy that just retired here at work decided he wanted to quit smoking. He had seen and heard me rave about how successful vaping for me in giving up the stogies.

Now this is a guy who couldnt figure out his voicemail on his phone, nor how to work a FTP program, ie not tech savvy. Unbeknownst to me, he goes out onto the internet and orders a high powered rig. He remembered me telling him that the cig-a-likes didnt have enough azz for me, but the bigger ones did.

So, he's got this 166w device, and low & behold he has "Basen 30Apulse 3500mAh" batteries in it. Said he got them from the same site he got the mod and juice from.

I proceeded to tell him a bit about batteries, and safety, and to how use the mod in temp mode (which was his main question, he was trying to get temp out of a kanthal coil). TBH, he looked at me like I was wearing a tinfoil hat. I also told him about this place, but I dont see him coming here, he is a total techno-phob, if its not about golf he could care less.

Anyway, who is responsible for making sure this guy knows how to use the stuff safely and doesnt blow himself up. I felt "kinda" responsible because I promoted the virtues of vaping to him for years. But really, I didnt make any money off these transactions. Follow the money is where I think the responsibility should lay. But, to be fair, how does some Internet vendor know the skill level of the the guy placing an order?

What we are doing today isnt working. Not all regulations are bad, though any regulation is useless if not enforced.

I think the adage…the weak shall inherit the earth…should be taken more literally.

Good luck. :)
 

mikepetro

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In all honesty, he is.

I get what you're saying and I somewhat agree, but in reality, he could be getting batteries from anywhere, and they could have realistic specs on them and warning labels, and he'd still have to read them and understand to keep himself safe.

I was looking at buying an 18650 flashlight a couple weeks ago, it came with a battery and a converter to use three AAA batteries instead.

Even if every mod and every battery came with a 10 page booklet about battery safety, it's up to the consumer to read and understand it.

ETA: Also, there really aren't a disproportionately large number of vapers hurting themselves by abusing batteries, when you compare it to other consumer electronics. There are just people doing everything they can to make it seem like there are.

Ultimately I am responsible for my own actions, I will never argue that. However, you cant realistically expect an inexperienced person to know the nuances of the battery industry as it exists today.

We know from experience (often hard earned), and research, etc how to sniff out fake battery specs from real ones... most of the time. We know where to find Mooch if we are in doubt. You cant realistically expect a noob to know these things. Hey, the mod instructions say "use high drain batteries ONLY, 20A minimum". Okay, these batteries say 40A continuous and 80A pulse, these MUST be good, AND... there are only $4 each, win-win!

It is obvious that "truth in advertising" is not being enforced in the battery industry, particularly on imports. If they can flat out lie about specs, one can only assume they lie about "best practice manufacturing" as well.

Whats a noob supposed to think?
upload_2017-4-28_13-48-26.png
 

Lessifer

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Ultimately I am responsible for my own actions, I will never argue that. However, you cant realistically expect an inexperienced person to know the nuances of the battery industry as it exists today.

We know from experience (often hard earned), and research, etc how to sniff out fake battery specs from real ones... most of the time. We know where to find Mooch if we are in doubt. You cant realistically expect a noob to know these things. Hey, the mod instructions say "use high drain batteries ONLY, 20A minimum". Okay, these batteries say 40A continuous and 80A pulse, these MUST be good, AND... there are only $4 each, win-win!

It is obvious that "truth in advertising" is not being enforced in the battery industry, particularly on imports. If they can flat out lie about specs, one can only assume they lie about "best practice manufacturing" as well.

Whats a noob supposed to think?
View attachment 652665
Right, the labels should definitely be accurate. Not arguing against that. I'm just saying I doubt it would have any real effect on the number of incidents, and that the actual number of incidents is relatively low.
 

mikepetro

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Right, the labels should definitely be accurate. Not arguing against that. I'm just saying I doubt it would have any real effect on the number of incidents, and that the actual number of incidents is relatively low.
Granted, most incidents are from improper handling, storage, and charging.

However, the number of incidents is irrelevant. False advertising is false advertising, and the industry should be held accountable.
 

Lessifer

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Granted, most incidents are from improper handling, storage, and charging.

However, the number of incidents is irrelevant. False advertising is false advertising, and the industry should be held accountable.
The battery industry should be better about labeling their products, and false advertising is false advertising, no matter what product it is. My concern is that the manufacturers who don't already label their products for individual sale, will continue to not label them, since they really don't intend for them to be sold individually, and then we won't have access to the actual good batteries that we need.
 

93gc40

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Ultimately I am responsible for my own actions, I will never argue that. However, you cant realistically expect an inexperienced person to know the nuances of the battery industry as it exists today.

We know from experience (often hard earned), and research, etc how to sniff out fake battery specs from real ones... most of the time. We know where to find Mooch if we are in doubt. You cant realistically expect a noob to know these things. Hey, the mod instructions say "use high drain batteries ONLY, 20A minimum". Okay, these batteries say 40A continuous and 80A pulse, these MUST be good, AND... there are only $4 each, win-win!

It is obvious that "truth in advertising" is not being enforced in the battery industry, particularly on imports. If they can flat out lie about specs, one can only assume they lie about "best practice manufacturing" as well.

Whats a noob supposed to think?
View attachment 652665
Yes I can expect a new user to educate themselves. .. before vaping. Basically anything above a cigalike.....


That's what I did...... others can do the same.

My broken toaster by the way makes PERFECT toast thanks to vaping.

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Jumpin' In...

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Jumpin' In...

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Yes I can expect a new user to educate themselves. .. before vaping. Basically anything above a cigalike.....


That's what I did...... others can do the same.

My broken toaster by the way makes PERFECT toast thanks to vaping.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk
Yeah...just like we can expect people to educate themselves before they start smoking...? :?:
 
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mikepetro

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Yes I can expect a new user to educate themselves. .. before vaping. Basically anything above a cigalike.....


That's what I did...... others can do the same.

My broken toaster by the way makes PERFECT toast thanks to vaping.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk
But many dont. Youtube is full of them, and the press is full of them. ANd as long the press stays saturated, it gives vaping a bad rep. The way we have done it in this industry doesnt work for the masses. It not idiot-proof enough. Most of us here are technically "hobbyist", we dive in deeper than the average bear.
 

zoiDman

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    What are the chances that the rewraps would be approved over the actual good batteries? After all, this is a government agency and the rewraps are at least labeled for individual sale. A Sony vtc4 has nothing on it, not even +- indicators.

    When people talk about e-Cigarette Battery Regs and Standards, are they talking about Mods with Built-In Batteries? Or are they also Including stand-alone Battery Cells?

    Setting Standards and Regs for Built-In batteries doesn't seem all that Unusual.

    Trying to Regulate Stand-Alone Batteries for e-Cigarettes doesn't seem all that possible.
     

    mikepetro

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    When people talk about e-Cigarette Battery Regs and Standards, are they talking about Mods with Built-In Batteries? Or are they also Including stand-alone Battery Cells?

    Setting Standards and Regs for Built-In batteries doesn't seem all that Unusual.

    Trying to Regulate Stand-Alone Batteries for e-Cigarettes doesn't seem all that possible.
    No reason 18650s cant be regulated.

    Forget about end use, just regulate batteries as batteries.

    For example, and this will piss a lot of people here off, but we have protected batteries today. Develop a technology that works for high drain bats too. Protect all batteries against discharge above its rating.
     

    zoiDman

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    No reason 18650s cant be regulated.

    Forget about end use, just regulate batteries as batteries.

    For example, and this will piss a lot of people here off, but we have protected batteries today. Develop a technology that works for high drain bats too. Protect all batteries against discharge above its rating.

    It's kinda Hard to Regulate a product that has Multiple Intended uses.

    And if you did, how would a "e-Cigarette" 18650 Battery Regulation prevent people for using Any 18650 Battery in a Mod?
     
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