Consumer Product Safety Commission & vaping batteries regulation

[Jumpin' In...]

It's kinda Hard to Regulate a product that has Multiple Intended uses.

And if you did, how would a "e-Cigarette" 18650 Battery Regulation prevent people for using Any 18650 Battery in a mod?

Which is why I think requiring internal batteries would be an easier "fix". Puts the onus on the mod manufacturer to get it powered safely.

And before anyone jumps down my throat for saying that, I currently use and prefer externally charged 18650s - but I've been around long enough to know about the safety issues associated with them and the danger of the fakes that are out there.

 

[93gc40]

WHY should my vape supplies cost more and not work as well... due to regulation. .. because someone else got an owwee.

We've got enough regulation and regulatory agencies covering these things already. ... it doesn't have to specify Vape to be applied... We don't need NEW laws or regulations..... proper use cannot be regulated by any one besides the user.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

 

[zoiDman]

Which is why I think requiring internal batteries would be an easier "fix". Puts the onus on the mod manufacturer to get it powered safely.

...

For a Regulated or Direct Output Mod with an Internal Battery, all the Electrical Factors are Known. Or can be Accounted for. So having a Standard/Regulation for the Built-In Battery is Possible. And Performance isn't really going to suffer. Nor is Cost.

I think there is Much Confusion when People in the Media/Government refer to an e-Cigarette Battery.

I don't think they are referring to Stand-Alone Battery Cells such as an 18650 Battery. I think they are referring to a Mod with a Built-In Battery. Much like some people refer to an eGo Mod as a Battery.

Trying to Regulate an 18650 Battery doesn't seem Possible under the guise of making e-Cigarettes "Safer".

 

[sofarsogood]

I'll be surprised if the FDA really does give vaping devices to the CPSC. Wouldn't that be saying that the devices are not part of the deeming rules? Right now all vapers need to know is the injuries always seem to involve loose batteries with unprotected terminals or mech mods. I have a bunch of Li powered devices besides ecigs. I've never had a battery problem with them and rarely hear about any. There's no reason ecig devices should be any different.

For a Regulated or Direct Output Mod with an Internal Battery, all the Electrical Factors are Known. Or can be Accounted for. So having a Standard/Regulation for the Built-In Battery is Possible. And Performance isn't really going to suffer. Nor is Cost.

I think there is Much Confusion when People in the Media/Government refer to an e-Cigarette Battery.

I don't think they are referring to Stand-Alone Battery Cells such as an 18650 Battery. I think they are referring to a Mod with a Built-In Battery. Much like some people refer to an eGo Mod as a Battery.

Trying to Regulate an 18650 Battery doesn't seem Possible under the guise of making e-Cigarettes "Safer".

I'm sure there is no such thing as an ecig battery. All the batteries we know about have multple uses. Even the built in batteries would likely come from tested and proven designs offered by various battery manufacturers. May be only mass market products like cell phones can justify custom battery designs. But if they want to ban regulated mods with replacable Li batteries they better ban led flashlights that take Li batteries. AND they better ban replacable batteries in cell phones. The risks are the same.

BTW that FDA seminar on batteries has happened and the FDA promised video of the presentations would be available. Has anybody found any of that yet?

 

[Myrany]

Survival of the fittest.. works for me...

The info needed to be safe is easy to find and follow. If someone is too stupid or lazy to educate THEMSELVES. That's their problem.... maybe they will learn something and not repeat the same mistake.



Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

sure it is out there if you know to look for it. SO many people have no clue that it is even an issue. I have seen many many people mishandle AA batteries for various devices carrying the unprotected. Yeah those do not have the same explosive force but they can do nasty things.

E-Cig batterys or a more ordinary battery it makes no difference. If someone doesn't know to look they won't learn. Shops and other vapers need to step up to the plate on this one.

 

[zoiDman]

I'll be surprised if the FDA really does give vaping devices to the CPSC. Wouldn't that be saying that the devices are not part of the deeming rules? ...

I Don't see the FDA completely turning over e-Cigarettes to the CPSC.

But I could see the CPSC having some control over the Type of Battery that goes into a e-Cigarette with a built in battery.

 

[Steamix]

Sensible move on the FDA's part - which stands for Food and Drug Administration.
Batteries are neither.
Let's see what else gets whittled away once people with half a brain realize that some other stuff the FDA wants to lay their grubby hands on doesn't contain a single crumb of tobacco ...

Just stick to breathing down the necks of some of these glorified snake oil peddlers from the BT corner.

 

[MacTechVpr]

I'll be surprised if the FDA really does give vaping devices to the CPSC. Wouldn't that be saying that the devices are not part of the deeming rules? Right now all vapers need to know is the injuries always seem to involve loose batteries with unprotected terminals or mech mods. I have a bunch of Li powered devices besides ecigs. I've never had a battery problem with them and rarely hear about any. There's no reason ecig devices should be any different.

I'm sure there is no such thing as an ecig battery. All the batteries we know about have multple uses. Even the built in batteries would likely come from tested and proven designs offered by various battery manufacturers. May be only mass market products like cell phones can justify custom battery designs. But if they want to ban regulated mods with replacable Li batteries they better ban led flashlights that take Li batteries. AND they better ban replacable batteries in cell phones. The risks are the same.

BTW that FDA seminar on batteries has happened and the FDA promised video of the presentations would be available. Has anybody found any of that yet?

Mooch I think sat in on the above and may have had some remarks yesterday on the Vapor Trail Channel. Haven't had a chance to watch the whole tube through.

Live Q&A w/ Guest - Battery Mooch! - YouTube

Right on re mech the ban. A pathetic ruse. I sincerely wish I could be more supportive. But It's insulting to relate a repeal with further powers to encroach on this industry and community. We're not laughing at this one-liner.

Good luck.

 

[Cool_Breeze]

It seems that

• The FDA does not regulate caffeine per se.
• Does not regulate Energy Drinks (as long as they are not offer as supplements, but rather beverages).
  
• Hardware is not a food or drug. Batteries aside, are we seeing much danger with hardware?
• Li-Ion batteries are questionable when substandard or handled improperly.
• Ejuice may have some questionable aspects, but perhaps no more than caffeine or Energy drinks.

Above might suggest realms of monitoring and oversight for consideration and perhaps point a direction for assignment of oversight if necessary.

 

[retired1]

We don't need NEW laws or regulations..... proper use cannot be regulated by any one besides the user.

Who said anything about new regulations? The original post stated that the FDA was handing the issue of battery safety to the CPSC.

Trying to Regulate an 18650 Battery doesn't seem Possible under the guise of making e-Cigarettes "Safer".

It can work if they also focus on the tendancy for some companies to overstate (or just flat out lie) about the battery's capabilities. How many of those Chinese companies toss out a rewrap that's horrendously overstated as far as amperage and capacity?

 

[93gc40]

Who said anything about new regulations? The original post stated that the FDA was handing the issue of battery safety to the CPSC.



It can work if they also focus on the tendancy for some companies to overstate (or just flat out lie) about the battery's capabilities. How many of those Chinese companies toss out a rewrap that's horrendously overstated as far as amperage and capacity?

New agency handling the issue requires new regulations and laws to authorize activity of the agency.....
So if the companies follow all you rules... what stops me from useing valid 20 amp batts with a 40 amp load. What protects me from me.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

 

[Tufur]

New agency handling the issue requires new regulations and laws to authorize activity of the agency.....
So if the companies follow all you rules... what stops me from using valid 20 amp batts with a 40 amp load. What protects me from me.

They can't. I remember the first time I ever heard of an e-cigarette explosion. Only those worthless cig-a-likes were available at the time. Some guy took one apart and modified it. He blew out a few teeth. It is just lucky for mech users, few overloaded batteries actually explode or become flares. I did get a little jet of smoke once when I stuck a needle into a swollen cellphone battery.

 

[bobwho77]

I think that many of the people here are missing the point.
CPSC regulations won't protect the consumer from themselves. I doubt that they'd even try.
What they can (and probably will) do, is establish labeling, manufacturing, testing, and quality standards, so consumers can make accurately informed decisions.

 

[Lessifer]

I think that many of the people here are missing the point.
CPSC regulations won't protect the consumer from themselves. I doubt that they'd even try.
What they can (and probably will) do, is establish labeling, manufacturing, testing, and quality standards, so consumers can make accurately informed decisions.

In the current battery market, none of the 18650 batteries that vapers are recommended to use have any labeling whatsoever. Those with "proper" labeling are the ones that people shouldn't be using. Now, perhaps they will get efest to put a correct amp rating on their batteries.

What I find unlikely to happen is Sony labeling their vtc5 for individual resale. They have expressly stated that they don't intend for their batteries to be sold or used in that fashion. So if Sony refuses to label them, do we just lose out on being able to use Sony batteries?

 

[MacTechVpr]

In the current battery market, none of the 18650 batteries that vapers are recommended to use have any labeling whatsoever. Those with "proper" labeling are the ones that people shouldn't be using. Now, perhaps they will get efest to put a correct amp rating on their batteries.

What I find unlikely to happen is Sony labeling their vtc5 for individual resale. They have expressly stated that they don't intend for their batteries to be sold or used in that fashion. So if Sony refuses to label them, do we just lose out on being able to use Sony batteries?

Ironic. Responsible producers deterred by a regulatory feeding frenzy and the resulting heightened risk of litigation. Woe is us, the buying public. Exposed to fewer options, questionable grey market knock-offs and far less certainty or "safety". Can't fix crap with a label.

The law of unintended(?) consequences.

In this situation, what incentive does SONY or any competent reliable batt maker have to categorize products in a manner informative and useful to vapers?

Let legislators and those determined regulatory dictators that made this explain how they propose to restore sanity, first.

Good luck.

p.s. Psst, pssst…if I'm a manufacturer, I want guarantees.

 

[retired1]

What I find unlikely to happen is Sony labeling their vtc5 for individual resale. They have expressly stated that they don't intend for their batteries to be sold or used in that fashion. So if Sony refuses to label them, do we just lose out on being able to use Sony batteries?

Non issue as Sony no longer makes batteries.

Currently, the standards for batteries are voluntary (this includes Lithium Ion batteries).

Voluntary Standards

This means there are no regulatory laws when it comes to batteries and battery safety. This also means that the CPSC will most likely get with the groups that are working with them on battery safety to get a new voluntary standard written up. Who knows? We may get a new IEEE standard for our batteries.

I can't see this as being anything but good for vaping.

 

[bobwho77]

In the current battery market, none of the 18650 batteries that vapers are recommended to use have any labeling whatsoever. Those with "proper" labeling are the ones that people shouldn't be using. Now, perhaps they will get efest to put a correct amp rating on their batteries.

What I find unlikely to happen is Sony labeling their vtc5 for individual resale. They have expressly stated that they don't intend for their batteries to be sold or used in that fashion. So if Sony refuses to label them, do we just lose out on being able to use Sony batteries?

I wouldn't think so. What you'd be losing is the ability to take Sony to court and sue for damages in the event of a malfunction of one of their batteries.

 

[MacTechVpr]

A standardization of batt spec nomenclature by and among producer participants whether by an industry trade group or independent convention would be beneficial to the public. We don't need manufacturing standards set by the FDA for vape products.

Our biggest risk comes from substandard product being falsely branded, packaged and/or sold as primary grade goods. Industry has the means to dissuade this through authentication practices. Gov is a far more costly means in a host of ways and likely not nearly as effective at deterring counterfeiting if only because of the enormity of scale. The sheer abundance of this junk.

I'd say, don't lose a digit but give them all the finger. Buying crap prove's the regulator's false dilemma that we're all too stupid to regulate ourselves.

Good luck.

 

[mikepetro]

Buying crap prove's the regulator's false dilemma that we're all too stupid to regulate ourselves.

I bought plenty of crap when I first started out, I didnt know any better and was driven by price. I think that is common for most vapers, until they get their toes wet they dont even know what questions to ask, I know I didnt.

 

[MacTechVpr]

I bought plenty of crap when I first started out, I didnt know any better and was driven by price. I think that is common for most vapers, until they get their toes wet they dont even know what questions to ask, I know I didnt.

I really meant, in context, due to the lack of worthwhile information being available on say generic re-wraps and other abuses of our enthusiasm. Batteries would be a good example.

Yes, there's a learning curve for all of us. It becomes the norm when producers don't protect their unique property interests and gov doesn't act uniformly to protect those interests. We've grown accustomed to a consistency of commercial practice as consumers. Why it's so easy to suspend disbelief regarding goods from alternative conduits that make their way side-by-side into the retail space. I've referred to this frequently with the euphemism you have to be a skier to sell skis. When they are, new vapers get what they need.

So we do (learn the distinction) in this community. It's one of the most vocal and effective I've seen. Not the gov protecting us. Not retailers. Us. I'd wager that the typical consumer is not more than 2 deg of separation from this forum or similar source. And it's made a difference I think. We are very vocal. But it's not a coherent voice. And certainly not a focused one due I believe to the many, many distractions of various uncorroborated agendas.

One of them is the persistent fallacy that we need more or different government regulation when in fact what is needed is more education on the qualified facts.

Now and not unexpectedly, a division would be created in this community with the carrot that we may have what we want if we kick mech users to the curb, i.e. practically most of us. An example of the kind of disingenuous agenda I refer to.

I fail to see the compelling argument for Congress certifying itself as the principle unique authority on what should be manufactured (and what should not), duplicitously relabeling vaping while institutionalizing a discredited FDA as the instrument of implementation, how this somehow addresses the cacophony of misinformation facing the new vaper you mention.

We're all new vapers, each and every day. And it would seem that we might also be (perhaps all too easily) assured of more of the same, crap.

Good luck.