Could vaping POSSIBLY be worse?

[oxygen thief]

Yes, death is a side effect, if the drug that is being taken is to help with a life threatening condition, the problem is when drugs in clinical trials show side effects that are not directly related to the problem that the drugs are used to treat.

Take intravenous birth control, the NuvaRings side effects were blod clots, stroke and heart attacks, reproductive organ cancer, Gallbladder disease, Liver tumors and more, all this for birth control. This was eventually pulled as does every birth control similar to it. The problem is that the FDA approves them, drug companies can market these drugs as effective and then doctors recommend them. I believe the fact that the FDA approves them and a doctor recommends them is enough for the average person to just overlook the life threatening side effects and take them, if this happens to enough people there's a class action lawsuit and by that time the drug company has profited enough off the drug for the lawsuit to only make a dent in the amount of money they gained.

My girlfriend and her friend used to used the nuvaring cause it was recommended by there colleges medical school. Long story short my girlfriends friend is no longer able to have children, I believe they were part of the real-world-post-clinical-trials.

I don't trust drug companies, I don't even take aspirin when I have a headache. There is a food(A real food, not a freezer frozen microwave snack) and a nutritional cure for everything. As humans we haven't made it this far because of drugs, they werent taking zoloft in the 15th century. I believe most mental illnesses are created a result of drug companies telling us we need something for something that isn't a problem like restless leg syndrom.

I've been in treatment for Bipolar I Disorder for 30 years. Bipolar kills 1 in 4. No drug company created these mental illnesses, these are biological illnesses that show themselves through psychological behaviors. In other words, mental illness is no different than physical disease.
Not all people with mental illness have poor diets, don't exercise, etc.
In the 15th century, a man or woman with schizophrenia either begged on the street, was in a lunatic asylum for life, killed himself, or someone did it for him. Why not, he's crazy. Today, many people with schizophrenia hold high level jobs. Look up Elyn Saks for one.
Things really haven't changed all that much in the stigma realm. We aren't ill anyway. Just those darned drug companies.
Stigma is killing us. A lot of people don't seek life saving treatment because they are afraid what others will think or they are ashamed to realize that their mind has short-circuited. They live half their lives in shame or on drugs and alcohol.
I write, that's a relative term, a blog on bipolar, the site is in my signature. It has my picture and my real name. My facebook page is 50% bipolar / mental illness related info. I try to be involved with others with mental illness.
Most of all please don't take this personally because it's really just venting to anyone who will hear my one small voice saying, just please just try to understand. Time for some Gandalf...cheers.

 

[DC2]

I didn't used to believe in conspiracy theories, until I started vaping.
Well, to clarify... I still don't believe in conspiracy theories.

I have learned, however, that what many people refer to as conspiracy is actually just the most basic and common of human activities.
Conspiracies are all around us, every day, and they are as real as wood and concrete.

My sister, the master manipulator, is always conspiring to get people to do what she thinks they should do.
And she enlists various family members to assist in these efforts.

That's a conspiracy, and she isn't even doing it for money.

But any company that is not engaged in conspiring to affect some kind of desired outcome is simply doing it wrong.
And those that have the most money and power usually have the most effective conspiracy campaigns.

So to anyone who doesn't believe in conspiracy theories, take a closer look around you.

 

[oxygen thief]

I didn't used to believe in conspiracy theories, until I started vaping.
Well, to clarify... I still don't believe in conspiracy theories.

I have learned, however, that what many people refer to as conspiracy is actually just the most basic and common of human activities.
Conspiracies are all around us, every day, and they are as real as wood and concrete.

My sister, the master manipulator, is always conspiring to get people to do what she thinks they should do.
And she enlists various family members to assist in these efforts.

That's a conspiracy, and she isn't even doing it for money.

But any company that is not engaged in conspiring to affect some kind of desired outcome is simply doing it wrong.
And those that have the most money and power usually have the most effective conspiracy campaigns.

So to anyone who doesn't believe in conspiracy theories, take a closer look around you.

I'm not too good at deciphering this. Is this in regards to ecigs, Oswald, 9/11, the tobacco companies, drug companies or a general observation?

 

[DC2]

I'm not too good at deciphering this. Is this in regards to ecigs, Oswald, 9/11, the tobacco companies, drug companies or a general observation?

It's in regard to everything.

 

[XeniaMike]

Ok, I am sorry to everyone in advance...but...I am cynical on this subject. I can't help but wonder if Big Tobacco doesn't slide money on over to someone who will vote a certain way to kill their competition. Way too much money there.

See also "Umbrella Corporation" (I want a job in 'the hive' it looks like it pays well)

 

[oxygen thief]

Right._______________

 

[oxygen thief]

Ok, I am sorry to everyone in advance...but...I am cynical on this subject. I can't help but wonder if Big Tobacco doesn't slide money on over to someone who will vote a certain way to kill their competition. Way too much money there.

See also "Umbrella Corporation"

Of course they do. I think they have over 1000 lobbyist in Washington. Big Pharma 1500. Follow the money.

 

[DC2]

Ok, I am sorry to everyone in advance...but...I am cynical on this subject. I can't help but wonder if Big Tobacco doesn't slide money on over to someone who will vote a certain way to kill their competition. Way too much money there.

See also "Umbrella Corporation" (I want a job in 'the hive' it looks like it pays well)

It's not Big Tobacco that has been trying to eliminate electronic cigarettes, it has been Big Pharma.

The people who have been in the trenches fighting ban attempts for years know this well.
They have looked the enemy of electronic cigarettes in the eyes on many occasions.

This might help you to understand how Big Pharma has been proceeding with their war against vaping...
The New Corporate America Business Model

 

[Jerms]

It's not Big Tobacco that has been trying to eliminate electronic cigarettes, it has been Big Pharma.

I was under the impression BT was heavily against ecigs until the courts ruled that they are to be considered tobacco products. I admittedly haven't followed the issue as closely as others though.

One thing I'm guessing, if the FDA had won and ecigs were to be considered a drug delivery system that required a prescription, BP would be shouting it's praises as a smoking cessation device.

Sent from my LGL55C using Tapatalk 2

 

[DC2]

I was under the impression BT was heavily against ecigs until the courts ruled that they are to be considered tobacco products. I admittedly haven't followed the issue as closely as others though.

Even from the start it was Big Pharma that was out to kill electronic cigarettes.
It was their heavily funded stooges (ALA, AHA, ACS, CTFK, the American Legacy Foundation) that first urged the FDA to step in take action.

I wish I could links to that information, but it is too long ago and I don't remember how to find it.

But you can see these same players attempting to influence the court in the following court filing...
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...vs-fda-court-dockets-updates.html#post1385723

One thing I'm guessing, if the FDA had won and ecigs were to be considered a drug delivery system that required a prescription, BP would be shouting it's praises as a smoking cessation device.

And there would be commercials all over prime-time television.

 

[DC2]

By the way, here is the actual Amicus Brief filed by the aforementioned parties...
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-court-dockets-updates-ala-brief-ct.-app..pdf

It can also be found in the thread I linked to in the previous post.
It is just a few posts down from the post that I linked to.

 

[drobbyb]

Anyone know the percentage of people who successfully quit analogs using big pharma's methods? I think I read somewhere a while back at an estimated 2 to 3%, but this is going off of memory not a verified fact. Out of personal experience 80+% of people who I know that smoke have tried to quit using the available methods, be it gum, patches, pills, or inhalers. The trend seems to be that they do not work well. Of the people I know whom have tried vaping seriously, roughly 70% have quit successfully. I'd say that's a huge hit in big pharma's wallet.

That would give them a reason to cast any doubt they can and grasp straws.

Correction, 7.3% quit using available big pharma methods according to American Journal for Public Health.

 

[Ken_A]

...
Correction, 7.3% quit using available big pharma methods according to American Journal for Public Health.

out of just plain curiosity - do you know the percentage of people that started back up within a year or two?

 

[Jerms]

Correction, 7.3% quit using available big pharma methods according to American Journal for Public Health.

To truly see how ineffective BP methods are, you would also need to look at the percentage of people that quit using a placebo or just quit without NRT. As a smoking cessation device, the patch and gum are almost a joke. At best, they are an expensive nicotine replacement product, and usually a very temporary one at that. Compared to ecigs, which have a much higher success rate as an alternative nicotine delivery system to cigarettes.

The reason that the patch and gum are so ineffective, is it places way too much importance on the just the nicotine addiction. Going cold turkey, it's just a matter of days before being fully detoxified from nicotine and to no longer experience the physical cravings. It's the mental addiction to cigarettes that plays such a big role in why people go back to smoking. The patch and gum do nothing to address the mental addiction, while ecigs do.

A big reason people believe the patch and gum are so successful, is they are so commonly used that if you ask a person how they quit smoking, they will often point to using them. Truth is, statistically they would have had about the same success rate by quitting without using those methods.

Sent from my LGL55C using Tapatalk 2

 

[Hulamoon]

And the MOAI's and the arsenic. "huh" you might say. Arsenic in tiniest amounts becomes accepted by the body. Its sudden stoppage can cause a horrible withdrawal. And we don't need to say anything about the MOAI's ....!

To truly see how ineffective BP methods are, you would also need to look at the percentage of people that quit using a placebo or just quit without NRT. As a smoking cessation device, the patch and gum are almost a joke. At best, they are an expensive nicotine replacement product, and usually a very temporary one at that. Compared to ecigs, which have a much higher success rate as an alternative nicotine delivery system to cigarettes.

The reason that the patch and gum are so ineffective, is it places way too much importance on the just the nicotine addiction. Going cold turkey, it's just a matter of days before being fully detoxified from nicotine and to no longer experience the physical cravings. It's the mental addiction to cigarettes that plays such a big role in why people go back to smoking. The patch and gum do nothing to address the mental addiction, while ecigs do.

A big reason people believe the patch and gum are so successful, is they are so commonly used that if you ask a person how they quit smoking, they will often point to using them. Truth is, statistically they would have had about the same success rate by quitting without using those methods.

Sent from my LGL55C using Tapatalk 2

 

[GreekLion]

i honestly dont care if they find anything. compared to when i was smoking, i feel great and feel healthier overall. i have more time and my quality of life has increased. if i die a little younger than the average person with bobas bounty by my side rather than die at 45 from lung cancer, i will settle.

 

[cmknight]

Anyone know the percentage of people who successfully quit analogs using big pharma's methods? I think I read somewhere a while back at an estimated 2 to 3%, but this is going off of memory not a verified fact. Out of personal experience 80+% of people who I know that smoke have tried to quit using the available methods, be it gum, patches, pills, or inhalers. The trend seems to be that they do not work well. Of the people I know whom have tried vaping seriously, roughly 70% have quit successfully. I'd say that's a huge hit in big pharma's wallet.

That would give them a reason to cast any doubt they can and grasp straws.

Correction, 7.3% quit using available big pharma methods according to American Journal for Public Health.

Look at British Columbia. If you register with BC Medical as wanting to quit smoking, the government will pay for your NRT products. BP is making BM. Wonder how well that program is making out?

 

[unquiet]

I don't trust drug companies, I don't even take aspirin when I have a headache. There is a food(A real food, not a freezer frozen microwave snack) and a nutritional cure for everything. As humans we haven't made it this far because of drugs, they werent taking zoloft in the 15th century. I believe most mental illnesses are created a result of drug companies telling us we need something for something that isn't a problem like restless leg syndrom.

I'm no fangirl for drug companies - Big Business is Big Business.
But mental illness is very real and millions and millions of real people deal with it every single day.
Psych meds save lives. Every day. I know for certain I'd have been 6 ft under many years ago w/o them.

You can believe whatever you want to believe. It doesn't mean you have any friggin' clue what you are mouthing off about.

[/donenow]

 

[Edd Harbin]

A few points here , I don't believe in conspiracy theories , I believe in human nature . Any large group of people who band together for a common cause always have that common cause as the ain objective . Government want's more power and money . Buisnesses want more buisness . People will get away with what you let themm get away with . People love to butcher the english language and then say "it's just samantics " . It's not ! You can change perception of an event by either changing the definition , or dropping/adding a single word.So when someone say's This caused that like smoking and cancer , or mental illness and death the way you say it means alot . People are not killed by Evil guns , people are killed by Evil people with guns . Gun's are not evil . If you are smoking your chance of cancer is increased . When they say your chance goes up by 70% that sounds horrible , but if that is 70% of 2% it's not near as bad . Look at the real numbers , all inclusive , and the way those numbers are put together . A buisness /Government/Group ALWAYS manipulate those numbers to reflect what they want it to . Sometimes it's intenional sometimes it not . Most ,if not all scientific method as it was meant to be has been thrown out the window for funding .

 

[horton]

I'm finding this thread to be very interesting and what I have to say may be a little off topic, but sort of cogent to the topic. I used to work for PCA (Farm Credit) and roughly 80% of my short-term loans were to small tobacco farmers for their annual crop. Without their couple of acres of 'baccy, they would not have been able to stay in business. I always enjoyed farm visits during harvest time and smell the hanging tobacco in the barns.
If I remember correctly (it's been over 25 yrs now) the govt. gave the farmers a subsidy to grow tobacco. (It was a complex formula only a PhD in math would understand based on the prior years crop.) I found that very odd especially in light of all of the anti-smoking ads everywhere you looked. One hand gives you money to plant the crop and the other is writing anti-smoking commercials. A prime example of talking out of both sides of your mouth.
The subsidy proved to me just how profitable tobacco farming is. When I would go to the tobacco auctions I was appalled at the prices it brought. I also had to remember that since the beginning (sort of) of our wonderful country tobacco had been a major component of agricultural industry. Many fortunes were made at the expense of others health.
Hope I wasn't out of line interrupting the thread......