County bans snus-chewing among employees

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Petrodus

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County bans snus-chewing among employees
(with MP3 audio)

Wisconsin American Lung Association Policy Director Donna Wininsky
says Douglas County is taking the lead in banning smokeless tobacco.
She says that’s uncommon among local governments.

"Smokeless tobacco isn’t any less dangerous than smoking cigarettes.
Just to substitute one for the other isn’t a healthy policy.”
 

Vocalek

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I really don't blame them. Chewing on a snus pouch is really disgusting. The rules should say that you have to use snus in the recommended manner. With the pouch discretely tucked between the gum and upper lip, no spitting is required.

However, the Wisconsin ALA is misleading people when they "Smokeless tobacco isn’t any less dangerous than smoking cigarettes." That is absolutely untrue.

COMMON sense: Switching completely to a smoke-free product halts damage to the lungs.

CDC - Fact Sheet - Tobacco-Related Mortality - Smoking & Tobacco Use

103,338 – Respiratory Disease Annual Deaths
125,522 – Trachea & Lung Cancer Annual Deaths
228,860 Total Annual Deaths from Smoking-Related Lung Diseases that could be avoided by switching

According to Dr. Neal Benowitz, smokeless tobacco is not a cancer promoter, and if there is any risk due to cardiovascular disease, it is minimal.

35,326 - Annual Deaths from Cancers other than Lung
128,497 - Annual Deaths From Cardiovascular Disease

Switching to smokeless also eliminates exposure of bystanders to SHS.

49,400 - Annual Deaths from SHS

But other than that, there is no value to switching, I guess. :D
 

Vocalek

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Good find, Petrodus. I left this:

In another story, Ms. Wininsky was quoted, "Smokeless tobacco isn’t any less dangerous than smoking cigarettes." That is absolutely untrue. Hello? This is the Lung Association? Really? Common Sense tells us that switching completely to a smoke-free product halts damage to the lungs! This can reduce the odds of that person needing to spend the last years of his or her life on an oxygen tank. It also eliminates SHS exposure for bystanders. Snus, if used properly, is spit-free and the pouch is as easy to displose of as a tea bag.
 

kristin

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I called and left a message and then sent a follow up email to the reporter of the original story.

Dear Mr. Simonson,

I am following up with the voice mail I left earlier today.

It was with some dismay that I listened to the replay of your story: http://news.wpr.org/post/county-bans-snus-chewing-among-employees

The mission of our organization, the Consumer Advocates for Smoke-free Alternatives Association (CASAA), is to "ensure the availability of effective, affordable and reduced harm alternatives to smoking by increasing public awareness and education; to encourage the testing and development of products to achieve acceptable safety standards and reasonable regulation; and to promote the benefits of reduced harm alternatives."

There was significant misinformation and even an outright lie put forth by the individuals featured in your story. For one, snus is a completely "spit-free' product, so there is no reason for Douglas County Administrator Andy Lisak to be concerned about cleanliness when it comes to snus. It is no more noticeable when in use nor "messy" than Mr. Lisak's favorite gum. They may as well ban nicotine gum, too.

Secondly, Wisconsin American Lung Association Policy Director Donna Wininsky states that her organization is encouraging governments and businesses to ban the use of smoke-free products. This is extremely unfortunate because even with all of the increases in tobacco taxes, a statewide smoking ban and massive campaigns against smoking, the adult smoking rate in Wisconsin is still at 19.9% for adults and 20.5% for high school youth (See ALA), which is only a 5.2% reduction in adult smokers since 2007! That means 94.8% of the people who were smoking in 2007 are either still smoking or have been replaced by new smokers. (The youth rate has fared worse, since the teen smoking rate was actually lower at in 2006 at 19.69%. See DHS.) If those inveterate smokers would switch to a smoke-free alternative, smoking-related disease and death could be completely eliminated. Ms. Wininsky's claim that "Smokeless tobacco isn’t any less dangerous than smoking cigarettes" is completely untrue and she knows it. All scientific evidence shows that smoke-free tobacco is far less hazardous than smoking. Obviously, smoke-free tobacco does not cause one of the most common and deadly forms of smoking-related disease - lung cancer. Additionally, over 30 years of research and study of snus has proven that smokers who switch to snus reduce their health risks to that of an former smoker and nearly to that of a never-smoker. And while smoke-free tobacco carries an extremely low risk of oral cancers, smokers are actually twice as likely to get oral cancers than smoke-free tobacco users.

Unfortunately, organizations like the ALA believe that all tobacco use should be prohibited, regardless of the low health risks of many modern tobacco products. Their policy is basically that of "quit or die" rather than to accept the truth about the effectiveness of tobacco harm reduction. They cannot fathom the idea that people would be using tobacco with health risks that are comparable to caffeine use. By perpetuating the false belief that smoke-free alternatives are as dangerous as smoking and removing incentives for smokers to switch to these far less hazardous alternatives, Douglas County and the ALA are misleading dedicated smokers into believing that they may as well just keep smoking. Douglas County smoking employees who may have tucked a nearly harmless, invisible, spit-free snus in their mouth, rather than go off on a smoking break, now have no incentive to do so. Mr. Lisak and Ms. Wininsky are fooling themselves if they think that those smokers will quit smoking because the option of smoke-free products to use while working has been taken away from them. It's akin to banning employees from eating fat-free ice cream while regular ice cream is still readily available.

This policy, if implemented statewide, would simply result in continued smoking-related disease and death for thousands of Wisconsin smokers who would have otherwise switched to reduced harm products. We must stop basing policy on half-truths, misinformation and lies.

Please feel free to contact me for more information or if you have future stories on the topic of smoke-free alternatives and would like to get an opposing opinion based on science and fact.

Sincerely,
Kristin Noll-Marsh
Vice President
Consumer Advocates for Smoke-free Alternatives Association
 
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TennDave

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The ALA?? That figures- what a bunch of idiots. Why are they involved. LUNGS?? Get real folks- Just pisses me off to no end... They have to go and stick their noses into the wrong ....-crack...smokeless has nothing to do with lungs. I hope they get a real whiff of foul air when they do this and this whole thing boomerangs around on them- They have absolutely NO BUSINESS where they don't belong- Stay with breathing....not chewing or putting something between your gum and lip. Gees... After they die, I hope that their hell is a room filled with tons and tons of tobacco smoke that they can't escape!! Okay- over with rant...
 

DC2

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The ALA?? That figures- what a bunch of idiots. Why are they involved. LUNGS?? Get real folks- Just pisses me off to no end... They have to go and stick their noses into the wrong ....-crack...smokeless has nothing to do with lungs. I hope they get a real whiff of foul air when they do this and this whole thing boomerangs around on them- They have absolutely NO BUSINESS where they don't belong- Stay with breathing....not chewing or putting something between your gum and lip. Gees... After they die, I hope that their hell is a room filled with tons and tons of tobacco smoke that they can't escape!! Okay- over with rant...
Good point!

WTF does the American Lung Association care about SMOKELESS tobacco?
This is the kind of thing that can make a grown man get really ...... off and go postal.

I'm a grown man and I'm really ...... off, but fortunately for the ALA, I do not work in a post office.
 

TennDave

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Yeah, I agree DC2- if I worked in a post office I would send the ALA a package- a vapor bomb package- they open it and e-juice vapor would explode everywhere- right in their face....they would probably have an asthma attack, need oxygen and claim their lungs have been damaged forever, but really now... The ANTZ exist in organizations everywhere- a true shame....
 

rothenbj

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I commented-

When will the lies stop? non-profit?'health" associations, addicted to the money that the war on cigarettes has brought into their organizations can not stop themselves.

They must maintain their quit or die stance to insure that there are smokers available to purchase the worthless NRT and quit smoking drugs that Big Pharma markets and funds those same? non-profit?"health" associations to market.

They had me on that treadmill for decades, shrewd marketers selling products like patches, gum and lozenges that after 20 months were only successful 2% of the time. That might be "safe and effective" in the FDA's eyes, but the smoker's of the world really need to wake up.

Products like snus, Orbs, Ariva, Stonewalls and e cigs all eliminate, conservatively, 96% of the risks that smoking has and all the risks to non-smokers but that's not good enough for those? non-profits?, nope. They need to keep the cash cow milked.
 

kristin

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The ALA?? That figures- what a bunch of idiots. Why are they involved. LUNGS??

Because the ANTZ claim any form of tobacco or recreational nicotine use will lead to smoking. And the pleasant flavors of smoke-free products are meant to entice youth to become addicted to nicotine and then they "graduate" to smoking. This even though most research shows that youth who start with smoke-free products rarely "graduate" to smoking. Most dual users were smokers first.

Think about their circular argument against e-cigarettes - that e-cigarette manufacturers are tempting youth with tasty flavors, because obviously smokers don't like peach or chocolate or grape flavors. Kids prefer those flavors. They argue that once youth become addicted to nicotine then smoking is the next logical step. Yet they provide no reasoning for why someone who enjoys getting their nicotine in a mellow chocolate-flavored, smoke-free vapor would suddenly want to inhale harsh-tasting, deadly smoke, when they like their chocolate e-liquid just fine, thank you. Same goes for flavored smoke-free tobacco.

It's like arguing that youth who like getting caffeine from Mountain Dew will suddenly start smoking coffee grounds. :rolleyes:
 

Spazmelda

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You know... I have a cousin who graduated from chew to cigarettes. You know why? "because smokeless tobacco is as dangerous or even more dangerous than cigarettes, I might as well smoke?" That is what he told me. I was also a smoker at the time and I believed the same.

I'm sure he's not the only who who ever used this rationalization. I don't know the numbers or percentages of smokeless users who switch to cigarettes, but how different would those numbers be if our health organizations were honest with us about the relative dangers?

I remember when I first read that smokeless was less dangerous than cigarettes. Specifically that smokeless users experienced LESS oral cancer than cigarette users. It was a moment of complete cognitive dissonance for me. I couldn't believe it. I had been told, and believed, my whole life that smokeless tobacco caused oral cancer, and who wants their jaw to fall off?!? Seriously, that's gross.

Now I know that smokeless is less dangerous than cigarettes, and with snus or dissolvables those risks can be reduced even further. This deliberate lying by our health organizations is completely unethical and IMO, absolutely criminal. There is no doubt in my mind that it is criminal to knowingly lie about comparative risks to further a particular agenda at the expense of a large proportion of the public's health. It can be justified as being for the greater good, but it is still flat out WRONG.
 
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rothenbj

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Spaz, you hit on the exact reason I'm completely jacked about the FDA, the pHARMA industry (that I worked for, for nearly 20 years) and the ?non-profit?"health" associates. I may have found other tobacco products that would have gotten me off cigarettes decades ago if they had been honest. Instead, I played the Quit/Smoke game for decades. The message was that smoking was bad, but smokeless was worse. I even had a hard time considering any of it until I came here and it took 2-3 months of research to re-align my thinking.

This is going to be a hard hill to climb. They did a great job of selling this propaganda line.
 

Petrodus

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Spaz, you hit on the exact reason I'm completely jacked about the FDA, the pHARMA industry (that I worked for, for nearly 20 years) and the ?non-profit?"health" associates. I may have found other tobacco products that would have gotten me off cigarettes decades ago if they had been honest. Instead, I played the Quit/Smoke game for decades. The message was that smoking was bad, but smokeless was worse. I even had a hard time considering any of it until I came here and it took 2-3 months of research to re-align my thinking.

This is going to be a hard hill to climb. They did a great job of selling this propaganda line.
You can fool all of the people all of the time
IF the advertising is right and the budget is big enough.
Joseph Levine
 

kristin

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You know... I have a cousin who graduated from chew to cigarettes. You know why? "because smokeless tobacco is as dangerous or even more dangerous than cigarettes, I might as well smoke?" That is what he told me.

Great example, Spaz.

Except he didn't "graduate" to smoking as the ANTZ call it - he was fooled by the ANTZ into thinking smoking was actually safer and moved BACKWARDS to a product with greater health risks! In that way, the ANTZ lie actually put your cousin into MORE danger. He probably would have stuck with smoke-free and had been at far less risk if not for being manipulated. It's sickening to hear the ANTZ claim it's BT's fault for getting people to use smoke-less to hook them into smoking when the ANTZ may just be even more culpable for people moving from smoke-free to smoking!

I'd love to collect more real stories like your cousin's and use it as testimony that the ANTZ lies led smoke-free users to start smoking!
 
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