Court Defeat for a Vaping Dealer in Western Australia

[Nick Rouhliadeff]

Has any one heard this news?
A large vaping dealer in Western Australia was defeated in court by an idiot judge who ruled that Vapes are tobacco products and as such can only be sold by licensed tobacconists. He was subsequently closed down by the Dept. of Health in Western Australia. Now friends, consider this, this judge by his ruling has created an inadvertent Pandora's box. By his ruling, he has declared that a Vape or E-Cigarette is a tobacco product and an alternative to the stinkies, therefore, if I am not mistaken a licensed tobaconist or any one that obtains a tobacco licence can legally sell Nicotine E-juice????? Tobacco licences in my state cost $350 per annum to obtain and if so then can one legally sell Nic E-juice to anyone over the age of 18 years????

I hope this is true, and then we will not have the problems and costs of trying to import Nic E-juices and bases from overseas which when the freight factor is considered can be quite cost prohibitive and I myself have been ripped of by a certain dealer in China when I paid with my C.C. they took my money and never sent the goods. Yes it took me three months to get my bank to cancel the transaction and get my money back. Is it any wonder I will only buy from merchants that accept PayPal. Indeed this is difficult to do in America as Pay Pal has placed a ban on the sale of E-Cig products in the states. So has Ebay for that matter. Alas, I had a few contacts in America where I was interested in their products, but having been scammed I refuse to put my C.C. online to anyone any more

Nick

 

[phanto]

This is getting weirder every day. Think I know who the unfortunate vendor might be - might explain why they have been off the air for the last few weeks. More than likely this ruling will result in a ban on all vaping dealers who do not get tobacco licences - which would be ironic since it's the tobacco industry which is trying to stamp out ecigs. As for Paypal I found out this morning exactly what you just said about the ban in USA. Was trying to persuade a dealer that he should offer Paypal to increase his business - he contacted Paypal and they told him they would not allow its use for electronic cigarettes because of the "health risk'. Told him I would not disclose my credit card details online so bye bye. So much for the land of the free. The rest of the world may follow very soon. Makes me feel like I need a cigarette! Just kidding!

 

[kiwivap]

Tobacco licences in my state cost $350 per annum to obtain and if so then can one legally sell Nic E-Juice to anyone over the age of 18 years????

I hope this is true, and then we will not have the problems and costs of trying to import Nic E-juices and bases from overseas

Hi Nick. Yes, I have heard about this - aren't some folk raising funds for a legal defense, or is this the very latest update?
On the "licensed tobacconist" - good point! If you guys can sell nic then its a closer buy for NZ vapers too.

 

[Arnie H]

Vaping seems to be coming under attack more and more. I have heard of the difficulties being faced in Australia, but I've also seen some new vendors coming online there. Perhaps there is hope.

 

[phanto]

Has any one heard this news?
A large vaping dealer in Western Australia was defeated in court by an idiot judge who ruled that Vapes are tobacco products and as such can only be sold by licensed tobacconists.
Nick

Hey Nick,

I don't want to start an argument because we are on the same side but having now read a brief summary of the case it seems that the charge related to the sale of products which mimic real cigarettes (original intent of which was to avoid encouraging children to smoke). That is part of the Smoking Act in WA and possibly some or all other states - no idea at this time whether it applies in my state of Victoria. That raises lots of issues but this judge apparently thinks that selling a product which mimics a cigarette - even if sales are restricted to adults - contravenes the law in WA. So, it's OK to sell real ones which are proven to kill people but not to sell things which "mimic" them - whatever that means - even if the "real things" and the mimics are restricted for sale to adults. It's often said that the law is an ... but this judge has to be a hole lot more than that! Anyway, doesn't seem as though this opens the door to sale of nicotine products - apart from genuine death sticks, of course.

 

[kiwivap]

Hey Nick,

I don't want to start an argument because we are on the same side but having now read a brief summary of the case it seems that the charge related to the sale of products which mimic real cigarettes (original intent of which was to avoid encouraging children to smoke).

I remember reading that. I am curious now tho - if some-one licensed as a tobacconist.... But would they want to given the association?

 

[phanto]

I remember reading that. I am curious now tho - if some-one licensed as a tobacconist.... But would they want to given the association?

The very first ecig I smoked was actually sold to my partner by her local tobacconist - dead set ringer for a cork tipped cig but no nicotine. And that is about all one needs to say about government hypocrisy and judicial stupidity!

 

[kiwivap]

The very first ecig I smoked was actually sold to my partner by her local tobacconist - dead set ringer for a cork tipped cig but no nicotine. And that is about all one needs to say about government hypocrisy and judicial stupidity!

Mine was from the local corner shop - they had it hidden away underneath the cigarette display.... Mine had 18mg nic - I didn't even know if that was what I needed. It also said "strong" which was why I bought it. I think they got away with the nic because it was pre-packaged cartos. Not sure if they'd be able to do that now tho.

 

[dnield]

I am from israel and i thought that only here in israel there ara idiots people . now i see there ara idiots all over the world . i can't believe a judge can be so idiot !

 

[Nick Rouhliadeff]

I am from israel and i thought that only here in israel there ara idiots people . now i see there ara idiots all over the world . i can't believe a judge can be so idiot !

Yes people the Judge is a total blighering idiot or has shares in tobacco companies or pharmaceutical companies. Yes Kiwivap I also started on those look alike rubbish sticks but in Australia they had zero nic in them and how one can beat nic cravings with a placebo is beyond my comprehension. I went through two packets of those stupid carto's and then got on the net and soon learned how to put nic into the stupid things. I call them stupid because the battery charge was pathetic about 200 puffs if that and the coils would only last about three or four refills. I threw mine out.

For those that did not read the article here is the link to it No I also do not wish to start any arguments nor partake in any. I am a humble employee of a E-cigarette distributor and if this nonsense is picked up by other states in our country I am out of a job yet again and at my age (64 this year) who the heck would give me a job especially in Tasmania where our youngsters have to move to the mainland for work or face the round eternal of social security.

Nick

 

[ginandtonic]

the case brought against the vendor was by the "health" dept and the law states that any toy, candy or other product which is not tobacco but "resembles" a tobacco product can not be sold. this was to stop candy cigarettes being marketed to children so the law doesnt even say "mimic", that was the judge's take on it that it "resembles" a cigarette by the action of using it.

The vendor is trying to raise funds to fight this appeal, please donate a few dollars if you can. the thing is, other states in australia have similar wording as part of their tobacco act. it has nothing to do with nicotine it is just a technicality of the act that was tested but ecigs werent around when it was written in.

 

[Nick Rouhliadeff]

the case brought against the vendor was by the "health" dept and the law states that any toy, candy or other product which is not tobacco but "resembles" a tobacco product can not be sold. this was to stop candy cigarettes being marketed to children so the law doesnt even say "mimic", that was the judge's take on it that it "resembles" a cigarette by the action of using it.

The vendor is trying to raise funds to fight this appeal, please donate a few dollars if you can. the thing is, other states in australia have similar wording as part of their tobacco act. it has nothing to do with nicotine it is just a technicality of the act that was tested but ecigs werent around when it was written in.

Indeed, the judge said the motion used in partaking the vape is the same action as smoking. Our distributorship would gladly donate to this worthy cause. Where do we send the money to?

However can one appeal an appeal?

In the meantime we should all band together and help our Western Australian brother and sister vapers to get all the supplies they need. My employer has lowered her postal charges to people suffering in W.A. from this ...... ruling. Its a pity the US and UK freight prices are so high as I am sure the people in W.A. would also shop there on the net. Also the fact as I stated before, one cannot pay by Paypal in the USA and that stops me from shopping there.

Nick

Nick

 

[Katya]

I would very much like to sympathize with you guys, but our own idiots (read the FDA) are about to introduce their "deeming" regulations wrt e-cigarettes any minute now...

Yes, dnield, they are everywhere.

Wish us luck--we're going to need it.

 

[Nick Rouhliadeff]

I would very much like to sympathize with you guys, but our own idiots (read the FDA) are about to introduce their "deeming" regulations wrt e-cigarettes any minute now...

Yes, dnield, they are everywhere.

Wish us luck--we're going to need it.

We all need it Katya, The FDA are the biggest hurdle the same as our TGA (Theraputic Goods Assoc.) who say vapes cannot be approved until they have been tested and certified, some asked how to go about it. The biggest hurdle is the $50KAUD they are asking for the privilege. Now, if our Federal Government was serious in eliminating the carcinogenic products off the market then they would soon fund such testing. Remember our Federal treasurer has just spent $12 billion on new stealth fighter jets and at the same time is screwing over the sick and disabled pensioners. Our Federal government is not interested in a healthy Australia, they want to euthanise sic, legally the smokers and in the process while they are still choking in the cancer wards charge 65% tax on the death sticks while vapes only earn them 10% VAT or GST depending which country you live in. Now if you were the Federal treasurer which tax rate for your treasury would you prefer. Recently our Federal Minister for Health made a public announcment, the first ever, stating that following the recent tax hike on cigarettes and alcohol, I might add, that the revenue is being used to treat cancer patients that do not have private health insurance. Now please, why not eliminate the cause and then you won't need the treatment. The biggest load of B.S. I have ever heard spew from the mouth of a politician and I am sure you will agree all politicians are full of it.

Nick

 

[Katya]

You want logic? Reason? Common sense? Good will? From the government????

I'm so mad I could scream.

 

[ginandtonic]

The forum wont let me post links but if you scroll down to "national forums" to the australia &nz board there is a topic in there with a link to the gofundme page and also to a petition, if you use the petition it may ask for a contribution afterwards but that is not the fund for the legal appeal. afaik, the vendor is waiting on legal advice about the appeal part

cheers

edit: gofundme.com/Ecigs-Our-Right-to-Choose


However can one appeal an appeal?

In the meantime we should all band together and help our Western Australian brother and sister vapers to get all the supplies they need. My employer has lowered her postal charges to people suffering in W.A. from this ...... ruling. Its a pity the US and UK freight prices are so high as I am sure the people in W.A. would also shop there on the net. Also the fact as I stated before, one cannot pay by Paypal in the USA and that stops me from shopping there.

Nick

Nick[/QUOTE]

 

[kiwivap]

However can one appeal an appeal?

I expect this is what they are taking advice on. Usually an appeal goes to a higher court. They have already been to the WA Supreme Court so I don't know what the next step could be.

 

[Nick Rouhliadeff]

You want logic? Reason? Common sense? Good will? From the government????

I'm so mad I could scream.

You and me both Katya I have screamed at these SOB's till my throat ran dry and I have callouss fingers from all the petitions I have written. All I know is if these a....holes continue down this path, and use the precedence from Western Australia then we are all sunk. All be it, we will have to go underground and be persecuted like "heaven forbid" drug dealers. Tobacco licence or not, at present we cannot sell Nicotine E-Juice legally in my country. Yes, sure there is more ways than one of skinning a cat and what we do is drop ship nic requests to a very good company that we have known for years and they express ship it to our clients. We meet the additional freight expenses and our customers get their nic juice at the same postage rate as if they got it from us in Australia. Our Federal Laws say we can import Nic e-juice for our own personal use up to three months supply with a maximum import per annum of 15 months supply.

How you figure this out if your individual vaping needs are different to mine I do not know. However, having said that, Our individual State Laws are as looney as the Looney Tunes Cartoons, here in Tasmania for example I have been told I can be arrested for carrying on my possession a vape with nic juice in it. To date no one has faced the judge with this stupidity, and even the police here vape nic juice

Yet we have been told by a representative of our equivalent of health known as the Dept. of Health and Human Services that this is the law on their statute books. Sure Katya I am the first to agree the Law is an ... and its supposed enforcers are ... Riders. Especially when they Vape Nic Juice themselves, and I am acquainted with one Magistrate that also vapes Nic Juice so there you have it. Catch 22.

I would venture to say Vape on and be happy and if we have to do jail time well to hell with it I can do with an all expences paid holiday at the Government's expence. If they started putting Vapers into jail then we would need to send the prisoners to Mars as there would not be room in any jails on this planet of ours.

At the 2013 statistics 79% of smokers around the globe a now Vapers and the figures are growing.

Nick.

 

[Nick Rouhliadeff]

I expect this is what they are taking advice on. Usually an appeal goes to a higher court. They have already been to the WA Supreme Court so I don't know what there next step could be.

The House of Lords in the UK ????Or the Privey Council also in the UK????? Blowed if I know, I am a humble sales rep and gentleman farmer come fisherman. I am no legal beagle.

 

[Nick Rouhliadeff]

I expect this is what they are taking advice on. Usually an appeal goes to a higher court. They have already been to the WA Supreme Court so I don't know what there next step could be.

The House of Lords in the UK ????Or the Privey Council also in the UK????? Blowed if I know, I am a humble sales rep and gentleman farmer come fisherman. I am no legal beagle.