SaturnineDenial said:
Perhaps the difference between a flat tasting e-liquid beverage and a normal flavored e liquid beverage is only cinnamon. If that is true, then maybe the sensation is created by the brain recognizing the taste and confusing the cinnamon tingle with c02 bubbles.
Yup, this is somewhat true. Compare the more drastic change in flavor when you let something like Sprite go flat with the less drastic change in Coke. Not that this is relevant but I just tried Boylan's Root Beer for the first time this weekend and it had a pretty strong cinnamon finish to it that surprised me.. I didn't let it go flat though. The cinnamon in something like Coke is so subtle as to be imperceptible so to whatever degree it is helpful, like you said you have to balance with getting a cinnamon flavor.
The main difference though is not having the bubbles. Maybe you can use a small amount of cinnamon effectively, same as you can use menthol without really interfering with flavor. So, I am going to take you guys seriously that you get a fizzy sort of sensation from these flavors and also assume that it isn't
that intense. I'm kind of skeptical about this but eventually I will get around to trying them.
If it is activating the right sensors on the tongue there are two things we could do:
- There's a certain class of chemicals that potentiates this response. I'm wary of even mentioning the names of these though because they all happen to be prescription drugs as well. These are supposedly part of a larger group but I am having a hard time figuring out what those really are, so maybe in the future.
- Some combination of flavors that will elicit the same response. You have the same problem here with stuff like throat hit or WTA extracts that to do a really good job you need to find something which doesn't otherwise have much taste. Since the owner of BlueMist told me his cola wasn't really fizzy I thought this was a lost cause, but looking into it more and hearing what you all have said I think it is possible.
In that journal you will find a lot of studies on cross- and asymmetric desensitization. Things like smoking for years or eating spicy foods a lot can cause permanent changes in our senses, so it is going to be hard to gauge individual responses. I found an interesting point in one
article which is also sort of a good overview for the type of jargon to expect in that journal.
The sensory effects of capsaicin and menthol may be most similar to nicotine, which has been studied both as a sensory irritant and as a bitter tastant. Conversely, many prototypical taste stimuli have been shown to produce sensory irritation. Thus it is best to avoid categorizing chemicals as strictly gustatory (e.g. `tastants') or chemesthetic (e.g. `irritants'), and instead describe them instead as principally chemesthetic or principally gustatory.
If there is already some combination of flavors working in a cola flavor, one could probably just exaggerate that. I think we can come up with a better way to simulate it though. I just ordered Diablo Loco and I have some other chems I got to work on zero nic throat hit that are probably even better than capsaicin for a similar type of stinging sensation we get from fizzy drinks.
The hard part to me is sourness. Maybe it is because I still inhale like for an analog when I vape, vs. mouth inhaling, but malic acid was no good for me. I think it actually might have given me some difficulty breathing, which seems possible from various toxicology reports I looked at.
PA is now selling this stuff... has anyone tried malic acid? Someone here claimed it worked and I bought some. Even above the suggested concentration I got barely any sour taste but plenty of negative effects. Maybe the citric/malic blend Lorann sells or just some other sort of acid will work, but IDK if I want to even mess with these. I have a number of ideas how to do the soda flavors better if I just get the sour part down.
I think there could be some novel ingredients that work on the individual chemical pathways. Needing something near tastless, cheap and safe to inhale just makes it extra hard. FA responded about diacetyl but hardly pulled it from the supply chain. I don't like not knowing what is really in stuff like Bitter Wizard, so I am largely writing it off. Acids, whether malic, citric, or phosphoric are a key ingredient in any soda so I would be interested to hear from people who try these. Ideally we would find something that targeted the sour receptors without lowering pH too much.