Damn analogs!! Why so addictive?

[Calaban]

Just look at Calaban's post, his first part says he's not lying about quitting since day one with an ecig

Then he says he quit for over 2yrs, fell off the wagon, and has been smoking since

Ok, I'm done posting on this thread, you either get what I say or you don't, perhaps the confusion is in regards to abstract thought versus concrete thought

Wrong again.

I said BACK IN 2000 I quit for 2.5 years.

I started vaping 2 weeks ago and have not craved a smoke since. I'm not going to go into it anymore in this post, because the FACTS are all there in the post where I took your ignorant head off.

Reading comprehension is fundamental.

I did not lie, Troll.

Man I need to be done with this....what a waste of my time.

 

[Calaban]

Ok now I'm done

Really...

I am so supa serious this time

Talk about lying....

Hypocrite much?

EDIT: I read the posts out of order....ignore above.

 

[taukimada]

obviously you have no clue to the definition or understanding of addiction...

mayhaps we could turn this towards some pros...

i believe the understanding of addiction is most definately covered under alcoholics anonymous's statement... "once an alcoholic... ALWAYS an alcoholic"... if we define smoking as an addiction..thusly it would be once a smoker ALWAYS a smoker....

to randomly come in and attack the peacemaker of the convo seems a bit high falutin horse riding to me... not the other way around

Okay, I really think that we, being smokers, understand the addiction aspect of smoking. If not, I worry about those who don't. I believe that the other 99% of us who understand it do not need to be insulted regarding their experiences as being a lie.

Yes, "once a smoker, always a smoker" That is why we have our happy little forum here, for support and information. I hope I didn't sound higher than you!

oi vey...

show me where i personally or purposely insulted you and i'll just go ahead and apologize...

if you READ the posts with a modicum of intelligence you might find that i fully agreed with K with the understanding that newbs "lies" aren't a purposeful thing....

when you say "i have no desire for an anaolog" I fully understand... been there
when you say "analogs taste horrible" same thing... been there

i agreed with his theories.. but not in his action for lack of a better way of putting it

the part you 11-20 day "quitters" dont understand is we were talking from longer term experience... and dont bother checking my signup date... i been vaping off and on since june of last year... i signed up when i finally FOUND this forum...

where my current problem is... my main goal when i posted here was to state a point and then attempt to diffuse the situation... and yet it turns out to be ME that's first nastily attacked..

once that occured.. it struck the attacker down low enough that i could sit on a milk crate and still stand taller... no need for a horse

do you want to finally quit smoking for good.... then open your mind to the fact that the addiction is NEVER going to go away....
you will ALWAYS enjoy the taste of an analog...
you will ALWAYS prefer to smoke than vape..

once that's in your head... you should do just fine..

tata for now... goodbye... and thanks for all the fish

 

[Walrus]

obviously you have no clue to the definition or understanding of addiction...

mayhaps we could turn this towards some pros...

i believe the understanding of addiction is most definately covered under alcoholics anonymous's statement... "once an alcoholic... ALWAYS an alcoholic"... if we define smoking as an addiction..thusly it would be once a smoker ALWAYS a smoker....

to randomly come in and attack the peacemaker of the convo seems a bit high falutin horse riding to me... not the other way around

I think that 20 years of struggling with cigarettes and 14 years as a recovering alcoholic give me some insight into addictive behaviors.

Am I an alcoholic? Yes. Am I a drinker? No.

Am I addicted to nicotine? Yes. Am I currently a smoker? Remains to be seen. I do think 11 days may be too soon to tell. Did I ever in a million years think I could go an afternoon much less 11 days without a cigarette? Hell NO. Do I have any desire to light a cigarette? Not at all. Can I predict that I won't next week? Not really, but if things keep the way that they have, I don't see it as a possibility. When I sobered up, I never could have said that 14 years later I'd still be sober. I couldn't have said it about a week later.

If you'd said that people who started vaping think they are nicotine free, I probably would have agreed. I firmly believe that some people can easily leave cigarettes behind in favor of vaping. Losing the nicotine is a different matter entirely. Weaning, sure. Going from analogs to a 0 nic juice? Nah.

You'd also be hard pressed to convince me that you were on here for 'peacemaking' when you so flatly stated you agreed everyone was a liar. Maybe your definition of 'Peace' and mine also disagree.

 

[Calaban]

newbs "lies" aren't a purposeful thing....

Puposeful deception is implicit within the word 'lie'
On that basis, I must disagree.

you will ALWAYS enjoy the taste of an analog...

Wrong.

you will ALWAYS prefer to smoke than vape...

Debatable, but I don't think so.

 

[ejfan1977]

obviously you have no clue to the definition or understanding of addiction...

OKay, you don't think this statement is insulting?

if you READ the posts with a modicum of intelligence

And this is not insulting...

where my current problem is... my main goal when i posted here was to state a point and then attempt to diffuse the situation... and yet it turns out to be ME that's first nastily attacked.

1.) You were not the first to be attacked, that was K's glory, sorry.
2.) When you attempt to diffuse a situation, you do not cast out insults.

Nuff said... Have a good night!

 

[taukimada]

obviously you have no clue to the definition or understanding of addiction...

OKay, you don't think this statement is insulting?

if you READ the posts with a modicum of intelligence

And this is not insulting...

where my current problem is... my main goal when i posted here was to state a point and then attempt to diffuse the situation... and yet it turns out to be ME that's first nastily attacked.

1.) You were not the first to be attacked, that was K's glory, sorry.
2.) When you attempt to diffuse a situation, you do not cast out insults.

Nuff said... Have a good night!

well.. what i meant was insulting BEFORE that post.. but anyways sorry...

as to the lying part.... i believe walrus actually summed that up.. "Do I have any desire to light a cigarette? Not at all. Can I predict that I won't next week? Not really, but if things keep the way that they have, I don't see it as a possibility."

so you say you wont.. but admit you might... the wont part would be the lie...

heres my edit: walrus... i worded that in a way that i didnt quite mean...
my meaning was.. that in a way you are agreeing with me.. you DO state in that quote that you do not say wont... and i have no intention of verifying whether you ever HAVE said it... where the problem lies is that K has gotten fed up with the joyful happy bunny mentality of people who've quit YESTERDAY and swear they will NEVER touch another analog as long as they live... thus my agreement in the lying department... my defense of newbs was the simply put point that newbs dont realize they are lying to themselves.. but you WILL eventually find out.. then MAYBE you'll understand my point /end edit

in the long run... obviously you've already taken your position and have no intention of understanding mine...

good luck with your flame hunger... it keeps the nights warm i guess

 

[taukimada]

I think that 20 years of struggling with cigarettes and 14 years as a recovering alcoholic give me some insight into addictive behaviors.

Am I an alcoholic? Yes. Am I a drinker? No.

Am I addicted to nicotine? Yes. Am I currently a smoker? Remains to be seen. I do think 11 days may be too soon to tell. Did I ever in a million years think I could go an afternoon much less 11 days without a cigarette? Hell NO. Do I have any desire to light a cigarette? Not at all. Can I predict that I won't next week? Not really, but if things keep the way that they have, I don't see it as a possibility. When I sobered up, I never could have said that 14 years later I'd still be sober. I couldn't have said it about a week later.

If you'd said that people who started vaping think they are nicotine free, I probably would have agreed. I firmly believe that some people can easily leave cigarettes behind in favor of vaping. Losing the nicotine is a different matter entirely. Weaning, sure. Going from analogs to a 0 nic juice? Nah.

You'd also be hard pressed to convince me that you were on here for 'peacemaking' when you so flatly stated you agreed everyone was a liar. Maybe your definition of 'Peace' and mine also disagree.

i think it's our definition of "LIE" that differs

tell me one week into your sobriety you wouldn't have called someone a liar if they stood up after 11 days saying "thank god... i'm never gonna drink another drop"

 

[ejfan1977]

so you say you wont.. but admit you might... the wont part would be the lie...

Okay, it's the part about lying... Nobody is lying about their experiences they have had up to date. Just because one might admit that they might do something in the future does not make the whole thing a lie... and also I said I haven't the urge to smoke an analog, I did not say that I would never smoke an analog again... get it? There is no lying.

Actually, I have no flame hunger... I agree that we disagree! Sorry.

 

[K-Sound Krew]

Not going against what I said, I'm not posting on this thread, just sending a PM message to taukimada, just posting it as an open letter so all the donkeys can read it as well

Sorry to drag you into this, according to Piaget, we think in the 4th stage of cognitive development, there is no arguing with the stage 3 people
I have a masters in clinical psychology and a BA in education, I'm not going to argue with people who contradict themselves and then fail to realize that they have done so, If someone proves my point and is then upset that I point that out to them and calls me a troll, well there is not much you can to about it. You just have to keep in mind that ignorance is bliss and we are dealing with blissfull people, it is not their fault.
Take pity on these people for soon they will find the errors in their way, even though they are unable to learn from their mistakes in life. I know it's extremely hard to ignore irational arguments which attack you directly. I know I've made a generalized statement and people crawl out of the woodwork who I have never associated with and assume I am talking about them, this is nothing more the egocentrism. I do enjoy having intelligent conversations with like minded adults, but it is impossible to argue with individuals who see life through the eyes of a 2 yr old.

 

[Calaban]

i think it's our definition of "LIE" that differs

tell me one week into your sobriety you wouldn't have called someone a liar if they stood up after 11 days saying "thank god... i'm never gonna drink another drop"

I wouldn't call them a liar. It's insulting and not accurate.

I would call them a wishful thinker.

 

[Calaban]

Not going against what I said, I'm not posting on this thread, just sending a PM message to taukimada, just posting it as an open letter so all the donkeys can read it as well

Sorry to drag you into this, according to Piaget, we think in the 4th stage of cognitive development, there is no arguing with the stage 3 people
I have a masters in clinical psychology and a BA in education, I'm not going to argue with people who contradict themselves and then fail to realize that they have done so, If someone proves my point and is then upset that I point that out to them and calls me a troll, well there is not much you can to about it. You just have to keep in mind that ignorance is bliss and we are dealing with blissfull people, it is not their fault.
Take pity on these people for soon they will find the errors in their way, even though they are unable to learn from their mistakes in life. I know it's extremely hard to ignore irational arguments which attack you directly. I know I've made a generalized statement and people crawl out of the woodwork who I have never associated with and assume I am talking about them, this is nothing more the egocentrism. I do enjoy having intelligent conversations with like minded adults, but it is impossible to argue with individuals who see life through the eyes of a 2 yr old.

Haha! Unbelievable.
Your unjustifiable smugness turns my stomach.

 

[taukimada]

so you say you wont.. but admit you might... the wont part would be the lie...

Okay, it's the part about lying... Nobody is lying about their experiences they have had up to date. Just because one might admit that they might do something in the future does not make the whole thing a lie... and also I said I haven't the urge to smoke an analog, I did not say that I would never smoke an analog again... get it? There is no lying.

Actually, I have no flame hunger... I agree that we disagree! Sorry.

because you put that so nicely imma give this ONE more try...

it is important to start this with the fact that other than suddenly attacking me... i have no problems with you.. walrus.. nor calaban...
i believe in other situations we most probably would get along just fine

my point was from the beginning that newbs lie to THEMSELVES with "wishfull thinking".. i chose those words because i noticed it being sent in reply to me when i scrolled down to find calaban's name for spelling purposes...

where i'm sure you're feeling insulted is the word "lie"... this is where we differ by definition... when someone tells me i'm lying to myself.. i choose to disagree.. not be insulted.. lying to oneself is a common mistake and one we cannot find for ourselves easily and being accused of it is not an insult.. it's a reality check... whether the accuser is right or wrong... i meant for you to do some self searching when i used the word.. AND.. i NEVER once pointed AT YOU when i said it... where comes a question.. if i didn't point it directly at you... why do YOU take offense.. it was a generalized statement

i know absolutely nothing about you whatsoever... until you sent K the little in the censoring thread i was wondering why K was so sure you were female... thus i was not stating anything directly at YOU.. somewhere in there you chose to think i was... now my usual answer to that is.. "if the shoe fits.. feel free to wear it".. but i'm gonna take the approach of thinking you MAY have thought i was actually talking to you and not simply reading into it your own faults

as to the peacemaking....

did i not stroll into here... start trying to throw a joke in.. a nasty faced picture.. trying to lighten the mood?

i saw it was coming to this.. i was noting that K was about to amp it up..
am i suppose to lie and say i dont understand where he's coming from to help calm things down?

 

[taukimada]

I wouldn't call them a liar. It's insulting and not accurate.

I would call them a wishful thinker.

and yet in alot of cases wishful thinking.. and lying to oneself are one and the same... i purposely chose to not sugarcoat my words

sugarcoating can be dangerous... do you know how many calories there are in a donut?

 

[Walrus]

i think it's our definition of "LIE" that differs

tell me one week into your sobriety you wouldn't have called someone a liar if they stood up after 11 days saying "thank god... i'm never gonna drink another drop"

Suffice it to say I'd have been highly skeptical.

I think part of the problem is it's almost an apples and oranges comparison.

The alcohol was the addiction... if you couldn't have it in a liquor bottle, you'd get it in cough syrup, or worse yet, isopropyl alcohol.

With smoking it's a different beast... the nicotine (yes, I know it's not the only addictive thing about analogs) can be replaced by the e-cig. So can the tactile feel of smoking (to a large extent). The cigarette is largely the delivery device. We are simply switching the device.

Not all e-cigs are the same, not all liquids are the same, but with the right combination a fair replacement of the experience can be had.

I attribute that I haven't had a cigarette since I started vaping to the fact that I am more satisfied than I was before. My home blends still give me the nic I need, large vapor amounts, excellent throat hits, and tastes that I like more. If I'd been customizing my cigarettes I might not feel the same. I'm not 'settling' for an e-cig... I prefer it. I enjoy not reeking of smoke. I enjoy that my wife likes kissing me more now.

Now... shaking my addiction to the e-cig should they ban it will be completely ugly.

 

[ejfan1977]

There are some fakes on this forum
They make it seem like you get the ecig and just stop analogs
I think it’s a lot harder then people make it out to be, you have to be very serious and strong willed to quit, but that desire needs to be present; it just doesn’t happen on its own.
There is also the hassle factor, some people try it and can’t deal others try but you get to the point (even if you have multiple devices) where things begin to fall apart
Also the ecig is flawed, it delivers nicotine and mimics the act of smoking but it lacks a few key components of actual smoke, such as the harsh bitterness of smoke, the heavy feeling of the tar in your lungs from actual smoke, not to mention the unavoidable sweetness of PG

I have gotten nic poisoning many a time with an ecig, because I was seeking some intangible property only found in actual smoke, I don’t think it’s the additives either
It’s the fact that one is smoke and the other is vapor, they are different animals

The biggest thing which is missing, I call the cut factor. I drink my coffee black and take my scotch neat, not only does the sweetness of the pg pair horribly but the ecig fails to cut through something which is so overpowering, it’s like a snake bite, venom is cured with an anti-venom, fight poison with poison.

The human mind is an amazing thing though,
Have you ever met an ex-smoker who is bigger anti-smoker then someone who has never smoked?
It’s called a defensive mechanism, if you want to be successful you need to trick your brain into telling you that you hate cigarettes, even if you have quit cigarettes and nicotine for 20 yrs you will always be addicted, this addiction is dependent upon the time you started, how long you have smoked, and how much you have smoked.

The biggest factor out of the 3 is at what age you started,

But bottom line once a junkie always a junkie

Not going against what I said, I'm not posting on this thread, just sending a PM message to taukimada, just posting it as an open letter so all the donkeys can read it as well

Sorry to drag you into this, according to Piaget, we think in the 4th stage of cognitive development, there is no arguing with the stage 3 people
I have a masters in clinical psychology and a BA in education, I'm not going to argue with people who contradict themselves and then fail to realize that they have done so, If someone proves my point and is then upset that I point that out to them and calls me a troll, well there is not much you can to about it. You just have to keep in mind that ignorance is bliss and we are dealing with blissfull people, it is not their fault.
Take pity on these people for soon they will find the errors in their way, even though they are unable to learn from their mistakes in life. I know it's extremely hard to ignore irational arguments which attack you directly. I know I've made a generalized statement and people crawl out of the woodwork who I have never associated with and assume I am talking about them, this is nothing more the egocentrism. I do enjoy having intelligent conversations with like minded adults, but it is impossible to argue with individuals who see life through the eyes of a 2 yr old.

Wow a masters in psychology! Holy Cow! A B.A. in education! Oooo!

When you submit a post with a "generalized statement" that all of us egocentrics are reading and there is name calling involved (ie Liars, fakes), do you expect the "egocentrics" will just sit here and think "Wow, he is pretty smart to have us all figured out".

I did not see it as a personal attack, I saw it as disrespectful of myself (ego) and others on the forum and resented that you implied that we were liars. If you were to step back and look at it as a third person, you might see that. I think you should be careful to boast about such degrees as I can see you practice your them so very well.

If I were you I would read my posts very carefully and see if maybe some of the things you have written were written like a 2 year old. Remember there are always egos involved, including yours.

 

[chokmah]

Well up until yesterday 3-10-09 at 6:30 pm I had been analog free. We had a very bad day here with an infected power port that had to be removed from my husband all during his last chemo run. Yes I let stress drive me to smoking a analog. Now I could say well it was because my husband wanted me to stop and buy another pack of cigs and since hes smoking I will too but that would be lying to myself. I made the choice to light and smoke it PERIOD.

I have had issues today and smoked 2 more again because I am stressed about my Dr appointment tomorrow (Friday the 13th). I was heavy smoker of 2 packs a day for 20 plus years straight. While I was doing well after I decided to quit on the 1st of March as that being my last analog, the e-cig did make it easier for at least 10 days. That to me was a good start and so what if I slipped up as its my pocketbook and health and no one elses on this board. I take full responsibility for my slip ups and have not lied yet on this board or any other that I can recall.

Yes I will change my smokefree banner when I finally make the choice to adamantly attempt again to quit analogs for good. As I will tell myself TAKE 2 on quiting (insert date here) when I am ready and not a second sooner.

 

[Calaban]

and yet in alot of cases wishful thinking.. and lying to oneself are one and the same... i purposely chose to not sugarcoat my words

sugarcoating can be dangerous... do you know how many calories there are in a donut?

Not until your last few posts have you made it clear that you or Special-K were talking about people lying to themselves.

The implication had been, up to that point, that people here were lying to everyone else. (not an implication at all in Special-K's case - it was a downright accusation)
To that I take offense.....I did not lie, to myself or anyone.

No harm no foul...I have not been personally offended by you. But if you meant people lying to themselves, why not make that undeniably clear from the start? This is the internet after all, and subtle nuance is not always apparent in the typed word.

And Special-K needs to stop thinking he is better,smarter, more correct than everyone else simply because he allegedly has a Masters in Psych. Education does not=intelligence.

-Cal

 

[taukimada]

Suffice it to say I'd have been highly skeptical.

I think part of the problem is it's almost an apples and oranges comparison.

The alcohol was the addiction... if you couldn't have it in a liquor bottle, you'd get it in cough syrup, or worse yet, isopropyl alcohol.

With smoking it's a different beast... the nicotine (yes, I know it's not the only addictive thing about analogs) can be replaced by the e-cig. So can the tactile feel of smoking (to a large extent). The cigarette is largely the delivery device. We are simply switching the device.

Not all e-cigs are the same, not all liquids are the same, but with the right combination a fair replacement of the experience can be had.

I attribute that I haven't had a cigarette since I started vaping to the fact that I am more satisfied than I was before. My home blends still give me the nic I need, large vapor amounts, excellent throat hits, and tastes that I like more. If I'd been customizing my cigarettes I might not feel the same. I'm not 'settling' for an e-cig... I prefer it. I enjoy not reeking of smoke. I enjoy that my wife likes kissing me more now.

Now... shaking my addiction to the e-cig should they ban it will be completely ugly.

and i wholeheartedly agree with THAT argument...THAT is the defensive posture that should have been taken in the first place...

now again.. we differ on the terminology... so i forewarn...

where the "lie" comes in.. is you currently feel safe and snug in your coccoon of non-analog serinity.. that serenity is a lie.. as a "recovering" alcoholic you KNOW this... at which point you shouldn't be lying to yourself.. that big bad analog monster is waiting just on the other side of that coccoon for you to open up the door forgetting he's there... THAT is the point K was trying to make.. thats the point i agreed with

the REAL problem is there are alot of what i've heard reffered to as "happy bunnies" who jump and run and play ignoring the big stinking black lungged monster just at the edge of the field... they ARE lying to themselves.. after you've been vaping for 20 some odd years you should STILL ALWAYS remember that beastie is there waiting... anyone who makes statements seemingly stating otherwise IS (fine i'll switch to the sugar coating... feeling a bit low sugared anyways) "wishful thinking" themselves into a dangerous corner

 

[taukimada]

Well up until yesterday 3-10-09 at 6:30 pm I had been analog free. We had a very bad day here with an infected power port that had to be removed from my husband all during his last chemo run. Yes I let stress drive me to smoking a analog. Now I could say well it was because my husband wanted me to stop and buy another pack of cigs and since hes smoking I will too but that would be lying to myself. I made the choice to light and smoke it PERIOD.

I have had issues today and smoked 2 more again because I am stressed about my Dr appointment tomorrow (Friday the 13th). I was heavy smoker of 2 packs a day for 20 plus years straight. While I was doing well after I decided to quit on the 1st of March as that being my last analog, the e-cig did make it easier for at least 10 days. That to me was a good start and so what if I slipped up as its my pocketbook and health and no one elses on this board. I take full responsibility for my slip ups and have not lied yet on this board or any other that I can recall.

Yes I will change my smokefree banner when I finally make the choice to adamantly attempt again to quit analogs for good. As I will tell myself TAKE 2 on quiting (insert date here) when I am ready and not a second sooner.

my sympathies on the stressful events.... i know how stress can definately make you not care about whether its a vaper or a smoker

i hope when everything calms down you can come back to the fold easier than it's been for me.. will be happy if i can see 1 year free on your banner