The core the coil wrapped around is that black piece that looks like a rabbit turd.
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Decomposition of VG to acrolein
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The core the coil wrapped around is that black piece that looks like a rabbit turd.
OK, it took me a while since I don't have any of the smaller tools that would have made this easier.
This is a 2.5 month old atomizer that has been hit daily with (usually pure VG/nic and flavor). I have hit it will all manners of flavors (the majority of them Lorann) and have used quite a few of the bad ones(thick and dark such as coffee, etc).
The mesh received 2 baths in 30% phosphoric acid during it's long illustrious life.
Sorry the pic isn't better, it was the best I could do with a web cam. Here are my observations:
The atomizer itself was very clean. The mesh looks almost new and I could not see any wear in the material.
The wire was clean without any noticeable buildup on the wire.
The core the wire wraps around had a thin hard black layer of what I assume is carbon buildup. I was actually surprised with that since it is very hard to get a good look when the unit is intact.
Pete, I have no idea how you do what you do to your atomizers
My baby is no more picture by nuckecf - Photobucket
Edit: Strange..it wouldn't let me embed the image. Maybe it was too big.
Nuck - did you say already, what device was this? Just the usual voltage? Used with external power pack or usb? Did the 'cleaning cycle' take place recently ?
Well as you so patiently told me in the beginning Kate the gunk has nothing to do with the polyester.....I have convinced myself of that now....lol. Whatever I do all my coils look like trogs in just a few days....
401, only batteries with the usual voltage and I've never seen a cleaning cycle. I assumed the 401 didn't have one.
(Found the bits so I can take a new pic of the coil wire and that bridge tabs)
Thanks for those pics Kate, particularly intereested in the
German forum ones.
Just how many forums (fora ?) do you visit ?
German forum ones.
Just how many forums (fora ?) do you visit ?
Edited an old post to post the new pic but for the sake of clarity...I'll post here:
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OK..new pic, you can actually see some of the build up on the sides of the wire. I assume that section was protected from the cleaning.
Wire and bridge tabs picture by nuckecf - Photobucket
The point of all this of course, is that I don't see VG causing any more buildup than PG. I would run side by side tests but I don't tolerate PG well enough to do a long sustained test. I saw previous mention of tests but didn't find the results. Are they in yet?
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OK..new pic, you can actually see some of the build up on the sides of the wire. I assume that section was protected from the cleaning.
Wire and bridge tabs picture by nuckecf - Photobucket
The point of all this of course, is that I don't see VG causing any more buildup than PG. I would run side by side tests but I don't tolerate PG well enough to do a long sustained test. I saw previous mention of tests but didn't find the results. Are they in yet?
No problem. I usually drop in at three other forums regularly but pick up all sorts of links from other members too. There are quite a few around now, some busier than others, this one is the busiest that I know of.
Well, Exogenesis has found deposit only with VG and not PG. For most real-life uses currently, the dry deposits from flavorings would be greater (but could be zero).
As Kate pointed out, at least one company uses PEG-400 so there is an alternative to VG that is not PG
Pete - I agree Nuck's atty is in pretty good shape for 2 1/2 months use. Perhaps the battery is on the powerful side of aveage or something; maybe i will look again through those atty life report threads to find the average for 401s.
ps: Pete, you are invaluable to the forum and contributed so many ideas I dare not begin to list them for fear of leaving any out.
ps: Pete, you are invaluable to the forum and contributed so many ideas I dare not begin to list them for fear of leaving any out.
I'm sorry Kin but I really do not understand what you are trying to achieve.
You stress the importance of finding out if acrolein is produced in case it is and the FDA use it as a weapon. That's fine and commendable. Then you confuse things by stating that you are not trying to prove anything. What is the point of all your discussion and supposition then? I honestly don't get it. When presented with real, tangible, relevant, recent scientific evidence that aimed to reproduce the vaporisation effect in order to test specifically for the formation of acrolein (at 300C), you dismiss it as if it wasn't credible in your world, why is that? That test is the only one that has been done to simulate vaporisation to the best of my knowledge. You jump to conclusions far too easily for them to be considered scientifically valid. I feel that you have decided the conclusion and now have to make the evidence support it. Theories are created to be tested and proved/disproved. If an experiment gives a different result than you were expecting then it has not failed as it has presented you with a conclusion. It only fails if nothing happens when something is expected to happen. This is nothing personal but I really would like to know where you are going with all this?
Alan.
Quote from report on ECOpure liquid.
I wish I knew what we do different as well. I suspect that whatever it is would reveal why the variations in atomizer life is so dramatic between users. Hopefully someone will figure it out soon.
Letzin - By 'not trying to prove anything' I mean simply I have no agenda, no pre-conclusions; I just follow the science and the evidence. That acrolein is produced by decomposing glycerine is a fact. The amounts are tiny, but unlikely to be zero.
As an example, I recently thought that impurities in the VG could account for the deposit seen with VG+water, but further research showed that as unlikely; so the decomposition remains the likely explanation.
As Pete said, and I have also said before, it is in non-ideal circumstances that the decomposition might be enhanced and become noticeable/detectable. Smell can detect acrolein in ppm, on the limits of what a simple vapor sample test can detect.
The tests you refer to say 'not detected'; this does not mean zero, but it does mean tiny; no real disagreement in this.
As an example, I recently thought that impurities in the VG could account for the deposit seen with VG+water, but further research showed that as unlikely; so the decomposition remains the likely explanation.
As Pete said, and I have also said before, it is in non-ideal circumstances that the decomposition might be enhanced and become noticeable/detectable. Smell can detect acrolein in ppm, on the limits of what a simple vapor sample test can detect.
The tests you refer to say 'not detected'; this does not mean zero, but it does mean tiny; no real disagreement in this.
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Thanks kinba....I have lots of ideas.....unfortunately most of them are failures.....lol .....but the great thing about all our chatting is that it provides inspiration for more.
Knucks atty is a complete mystery to me but perhaps voltage differences do play some kind of part, it's so hard to think of what else .... yet I would have expected to have noticed a difference in using my mods they both work at slightly different voltages to the mini pipes 4.1 fully charged voltage...the phone mod works at just over 5 volts fully charged. When I checked my evo batteries they were only charging up to 2.8 volts and the batteries were only a month old.
Pete - maybe it's the climate up there in Yorkshire ;
Seriously, perhaps because of the extra dampness of the air (clutching at straws?).
btw, you keep your juices air-tight and out of sunlight, and didn't add tap water ?
Seriously, perhaps because of the extra dampness of the air (clutching at straws?).
btw, you keep your juices air-tight and out of sunlight, and didn't add tap water ?
Interestingly the thought has gone through my mind.....I have been keeping the heating down as low as I can stand it to save money this year....I suppose it's possible that the average ambient temperature could make a difference...perhaps things will change now it's getting a little bit warmer!? It has been slightly warmer just this last week...It's hard to believe but perhaps it was the temperature change and not the vodka that gave my last mini pipe atty a new lease of life.
You are in Yorkshire Kate ...you will have to pop around for a cup of tea...lol
I can see your house from my attic window Pete
well there aren't any houses for miles at the back of my house so you must be just across the road....lol
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