• Need help from former MFS (MyFreedomSmokes) customers

    Has any found a supplier or company that has tobacco e-juice like or very similar to MFS Turbosmog, Tall Paul, or Red Luck?

    View thread

Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

KODIAK (TM)

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Jan 31, 2014
1,898
4,971
Dead Moose, AK

zoiDman

My -0^10 = Nothing at All*
Supporting Member
ECF Veteran
  • Apr 16, 2010
    41,135
    1
    82,601
    So-Cal
    Ok, one more.

    Face it. Not approving anything isn't a ban. A virtual ban, perhaps, but not a ban by definition.

    OK... LOL

    How do you Tax something if it Aint around? Don't think the Feds or the States want That.

    And can you say Black Market? How many Tax Bucks does the Taxman get from the Black Market?
     

    Rossum

    "Chump"
    Supporting Member
    ECF Veteran
    Verified Member
    Dec 14, 2013
    16,011
    104,438
    SE PA
    The back and forth between @zoiDman and @Kent C on the last page or two has been really excellent food for thought, with good points coming from both.

    Ok, one more.
    Face it. Not approving anything isn't a ban. A virtual ban, perhaps, but not a ban by definition.
    Do you think Congress and the Courts will allow a virtual ban to stand?
     

    Kent C

    ECF Guru
    ECF Veteran
    Verified Member
    Jun 12, 2009
    26,547
    59,875
    NW Ohio US
    OK... LOL

    How do you Tax something if it Aint around? Don't think the Feds or the States want That.

    And can you say Black Market? How many Tax Bucks does the Taxman get from the Black Market?

    I guess if someone doesn't know what a ban is, they wouldn't understand 'one more' either :facepalm:
     

    crxess

    Grumpy Ole Man
    ECF Veteran
    Verified Member
    Sep 20, 2012
    24,438
    45,972
    69
    Williamsport Md
    The back and forth between @zoiDman and @Kent C on the last page or two has been really excellent food for thought, with good points coming from both.


    Do you think Congress and the Courts will allow a virtual ban to stand?
    De Facto, and I hope not :ohmy:
     

    Kent C

    ECF Guru
    ECF Veteran
    Verified Member
    Jun 12, 2009
    26,547
    59,875
    NW Ohio US
    The back and forth between @zoiDman and @Kent C on the last page or two has been really excellent food for thought, with good points coming from both.


    Do you think Congress and the Courts will allow a virtual ban to stand?

    Congress and the Courts have a chance to change everything, regardless of a virtual ban. Although that may be an inroad. Lawyers think that way :lol: My guess it will be on other grounds.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: MacTechVpr

    zoiDman

    My -0^10 = Nothing at All*
    Supporting Member
    ECF Veteran
  • Apr 16, 2010
    41,135
    1
    82,601
    So-Cal
    The back and forth between @zoiDman and @Kent C on the last page or two has been really excellent food for thought, with good points coming from both.


    Do you think Congress and the Courts will allow a virtual ban to stand?

    You and I both know the Answer to that One.

    ;)
     
    • Like
    Reactions: MacTechVpr

    The Ocelot

    Psychopomp
    ECF Veteran
    Verified Member
    Aug 12, 2012
    26,497
    78,841
    The Clock Barrens, Fillory
    Thanks for posting this....I've been meaning to say something like this, but all the other FDA insaneness has gathered most of my attention.
    "and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.”
    No where does it say Democracy.

    It's a personal choice, but I refuse to pledge "under God." I believe in the separation of church and state.
     

    Eskie

    ECF Guru
    ECF Veteran
    Verified Member
    May 6, 2016
    16,087
    77,106
    NY
    Snus managed to get approved under the Tobacco Control Act. All it took was a filing of tens of thousands of pages, along with TWO full days of public hearings by an FDA panel. Presentations ranged from Swedish Match executives, their well compensated attorneys, and "expert" paid testimony. All for just one product.

    Why the approval? Because after that kind of full court press by a deep pocketed company, rejection of the application would have led to serious litigation that might very well have compromised the FDA's ability to ever enforce the Tobacco Control Act mandate, which purportedly was not meant to outright ban tobacco products. However, the FDA will be more than happy to fight a small company as they have no litigation expense, and can overwhelm an opponent by tying them up until they either capitulate or go bankrupt. But against a company with the will and capital to fight them and downright threaten their regulatory reach? They'll make a deal

    Now, what vaping company are you aware of with pockets deep enough to run that type of gauntlet? Vuse and Blu (Reynold America, which is the child of the RJ. Reynolds and Lorillard merger that took place about a year ago for ~$27 Billion dollars) and Mark Ten (Altira). The last financials of those companies show Reynolds America with a gross revenue of ~$10 Billion dollars with a net income of ~$3.2 Billion dollars, and Altria with a $25 Billion in gross revenue, net income of ~$5.5 Billion So yes, they're golden. And that's the kind of money on the table over the future of c-cigs.

    I know there are successful vaping companies out there making hardware and juice. But someone point to one that is publicly traded (OK, even private if you know the financials), with a net income > $3 to $5 Billion dollars a year. It's just not there. Which is why lobbying for legislation that will temper the Deeming regulations remains the best opportunity to maintain the current vape market. Sure, the lawsuits recently filed might prove to be helpful as well, but I just don't know if a company even as successful as Halo will have the kind of deep pockets to see it all the way through with top quality litigators like Covington & Burling. Remember, even if the FDA loses in court, they get to appeal (same for Nicopure as well). Appeals are really, really expensive, and again the FDA can keep going back to court without incurring any expense.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: nicnik

    The Ocelot

    Psychopomp
    ECF Veteran
    Verified Member
    Aug 12, 2012
    26,497
    78,841
    The Clock Barrens, Fillory
    Attention Mr.Zeller and all that want to get
    rid of e-cigarettes...

    Do you actually not have ANY
    loved ones that smoke ?
    Loved ones that are going to DIE
    from cigarette related issues.
    Would you REALLY not offer them
    this replacement for smoking cigarettes
    to save their lives ?

    Zeller has already found a way to slither away from that point.

    “If I were a pack-a-day smoker who was unable or unwilling to quit, and I substituted my cigarettes for e-cigarettes, there’s no question I’d be significantly reducing my risk. But as a regulatory agency, we have to make decisions at the population level.”
     

    crxess

    Grumpy Ole Man
    ECF Veteran
    Verified Member
    Sep 20, 2012
    24,438
    45,972
    69
    Williamsport Md
    classwife said:
    Attention Mr.Zeller and all that want to get
    rid of e-cigarettes...

    Do you actually not have ANY
    loved ones that smoke ?
    Loved ones that are going to DIE
    from cigarette related issues.
    Would you REALLY not offer them
    this replacement for smoking cigarettes
    to save their lives ?
    Zeller has already found a way to slither away from that point.

    “If I were a pack-a-day smoker who was unable or unwilling to quit, and I substituted my cigarettes for e-cigarettes, there’s no question I’d be significantly reducing my risk. But as a regulatory agency, we have to make decisions at the population level.”
    I just re-posted this whole thing on my FB and asked for support for Cole-bishop.

    Spread the Love........:D
     

    The Ocelot

    Psychopomp
    ECF Veteran
    Verified Member
    Aug 12, 2012
    26,497
    78,841
    The Clock Barrens, Fillory
    FDA focuses on young LGBT smokers with $35.7M campaign

    "A key reason for high tobacco use among this group of young adults is the real and perceived social stigma, discrimination and anxiety they experience when they 'come out,' the FDA stated."

    These are just a couple of the ads. I'd like to see a survey next year on how many young LGBT smokers were influenced enough by this campaign to quit.





    It seems to me that the $35.7M would have been better spent directly addressing the real and perceived social stigma, discrimination and anxiety.
     

    crxess

    Grumpy Ole Man
    ECF Veteran
    Verified Member
    Sep 20, 2012
    24,438
    45,972
    69
    Williamsport Md
    :unsure:

    Is there an actual higher use risk among LGBT or does the FDA just want to Target them now?

    Hey FDA - I'm of the Senior Citizens Group...........I don't want to Smell like an Ash Tray!!!

    Leave my Vape alone.....................and Get the Hell off my Grass :lol::lol::lol:
     

    Train2

    ECF Guru
    ECF Veteran
    Verified Member
    May 11, 2013
    12,271
    36,022
    CA, USA
    Huh.


    images



    FDA focuses on young LGBT smokers with $35.7M campaign

    "A key reason for high tobacco use among this group of young adults is the real and perceived social stigma, discrimination and anxiety they experience when they 'come out,' the FDA stated."

    These are just a couple of the ads. I'd like to see a survey next year on how many young LGBT smokers were influenced enough by this campaign to quit.





    It seems to me that the $35.7M would have been better spent directly addressing the real and perceived social stigma, discrimination and anxiety.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: kas122461

    The Ocelot

    Psychopomp
    ECF Veteran
    Verified Member
    Aug 12, 2012
    26,497
    78,841
    The Clock Barrens, Fillory
    Look at the bright side: Better they spend it that way than on more anti-vape propaganda.

    I don't believe the FDA has used any of their funds for anti-vape propaganda. They leave that up to ANTZ.

    ETA: I was wrong, please skip this post.
     
    Last edited:
    • Like
    Reactions: Sir Kadly

    Users who are viewing this thread