Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[nicnik]

The Senate is a harder sell but the R's have the majority there. Overturning a veto though is likely not possible.

But with that ammendment, the President would have to veto the entire budget bill to veto it. Or does he have line item veto powers? I can't remember if line item veto has been abadoned, or if it ever applied to budget legislation, which I think it didn't.

 

[nicnik]

ETA: They sell an e-cig too, but it appears you can't get to the product page without a password.

Someone should contact them and ask about it. Not me, though.

 

[kbeam418]

Big vapor is BT. When has congress stopped the FDA? Why isn't the deeming reg going to hold up in court? Do you understand the process and criteria for judicial review of administrative actions?

No big vapor is njoy I'm not saying there bad but that company is massive, and has the funds to fight in court. Back in 2014 I believe Boehner along with the GOP wrote letters to HHS requesting the FDA change the grandfather date, GOP will more than likely pass the AG bill. IDK it's been a while. Yes I'm aware of how the judicial system works... If enough companies go to the supreme court they could over rule the deeming. Now if we get a democrat supreme court justices I'm not so sure.

 

[Katya]

But with that ammendment, the President would have to veto the entire budget bill to veto it. Or does he have line item veto powers? I can't remember if line item veto has been abadoned, or if it ever applied to budget legislation, which I think it didn't.

Good question. OTOH, it's getting late.

Let's hope that they have bigger problems to deal with than to fight over a rider that has been penned by a Republican and a Democrat.

It's all so depressing.

 

[nicnik]

Let's hope that they have bigger problems to deal with than to fight over a rider that has been penned by Republican and a Democrat.

Exactly. And they do.

 

[The Ocelot]

No big vapor is njoy I'm not saying there bad but that company is massive, and has the funds to fight in court. Back in 2014 I believe Boehner along with the GOP wrote letters to HHS requesting the FDA change the grandfather date, GOP will more than likely pass the AG bill. IDK it's been a while. Yes I'm aware of how the judicial system works... If enough companies go to the supreme court they could over rule the deeming. Now if we get a democrat supreme court justices I'm not so sure.

They can't go to court without a cause of action.

 

[The Ocelot]

Here's another article against the Deeming regs. It was picked-up by Yahoo.

FDA’s New E-Cig Regs Will Kill

 

[Oliver]

OK, please can we stop worrying about a predicate product. There isn't one, and even if there were, any Substantial Equivalence application would have to show that it is, well, substantially equivalent: the burden for SE is huge. labelling, for instance, being a big part of it: the LABEL has to be substantially equivalent! A predicate (if found) is really not going to help.

 

[Hulamoon]

cancel

 

[kbeam418]

They can't go to court without a cause of action.

The cause is vaping isn't a tobacco product. Njoy won that case back in 2010. A judge also ruled for us February saying vaping isn't smoking. They only thing the FDA has on us is nicotine as far as what tobacco products are, so anything containing nicotine is a tobacco product including those wonderful nicotine gums that they love. Lawyers can figure all these things out if it gets to that point.

 

[coldgin96]

The cause is vaping isn't a tobacco product. Njoy won that case back in 2010. A judge also ruled for us February saying vaping isn't smoking. They only thing the FDA has on us is nicotine as far as what tobacco products are, so anything containing nicotine is a tobacco product including those wonderful nicotine gums that they love. Lawyers can figure all these things out if it gets to that point.

Ah, it's gotten to that point.

 

[kbeam418]

Ah, it's gotten to that point.

Not yet, we've still got that AG bill... As long as the cole amendment stays on there that is. I don't think Obama, or who ever is in office will veto a bill just because of a vaping issue.

 

[Duckling]

I haven't read the whole 499 pages, only the summary. But I'm wondering if the FDA lays out all the standards that products would have to meet for the FDA to approve them? I mean, have they said juices will have to have <X diacetyl etc etc...Or will they just go "nah, this might be bad for people if they use it for a long time, and you can't prove it's not - FAIL"?

 

[coldgin96]

If there was ever a argument against the, "Line Item Veto," this is it...

 

[vape-addict]

Comparing this to Scotland's independence from England well that's just...wrong

 

[bobwho77]

Unsubscribing from this thread, it's just turning into partisan party bashing.

People may hate a particular party for whatever reason, but I'm pretty sure BOTH political parties know how to cash a check from Philip Morris.

I'm going to stay on top of the thread, but you're right.
The ones that aren't cashing checks from Philip Morris, are getting them from Pfizer.
The partisan cheap shots have to STOP!
We aren't going to get anywhere if we're divided among ourselves.
I'm a registered Democrat. I'm also a vaper, and a firearms enthusiast.
If you want to rate our Congress people, and Senators based on what they've done for/against vaping, that's fine. At the end of the day, we may find that most of our support comes from one side of the aisle, or the other, but from where I'm sitting, NOBODY should be getting a free pass.

 

[bobwho77]

It's a nanny state issue. And nothing is going to change unless you get real change at the top. Which won't happen with any of the viable candidates now. Customization of devices will go away, and the ones left will be closed, basic, standardized. And they will be largely sold to the masses by Philip Morris or RJR because the b&m shops won't be able to afford getting approval for their indgredients for juice, plus approval of every single component of customized device to prove "safety". The tobacco companies won big.

It isn't, and never has been a "Nanny State" issue, although that's what's given them the framework for it.
The REAL issue is $$$. Pure, and simple, this is greed, and corruption in the Regulatory process.

 

[bobwho77]

So, how about a class action lawsuit for injunction of FDA deeming regulations and damages related to FDA causing harm to vapers by preventing access to a product that is used to maintain the health and well being of former smokers.

I see that the feds and FDA by extension, have what is called Sovereign Immunity, but however, the US federal government (agencies) can be sued under tort law as outlined in this wiki paragraph

"In the United States, the federal government has sovereign immunity and may not be sued unless it has waived its immunity or consented to suit. The United States has waived sovereign immunity to a limited extent, mainly through the Federal Tort Claims Act, which waives the immunity if a tortious act of a federal employee causes damage, and theTucker Act, which waives the immunity over claims arising out of contracts to which the federal government is a party.[31] The United States as a sovereign is immune from suit unless it unequivocally consents to being sued.[32] The United States Supreme Court in Price v. United States observed: "It is an axiom of our jurisprudence. The government is not liable to suit unless it consents thereto, and its liability in suit cannot be extended beyond the plain language of the statute authorizing it."[33]"

Maybe some cases exist that provide a precedent for a new lawsuit. Start a gofundme, hire some really good lawyers...tap, tap, tap, "Is there a Lawyer in the House?"

There's TONS of case law on it. The last time FDA tried to do this kind of thing ended with them being smacked down by a judge

 

[Maddox0086]

This just Really Sucks. In reality if you look at it Cigarettes were nothing but population Control. Think about it of all the things we could put in our lungs on this planet cigarettes is the one thing you really don't get anything from but an addiction. sure you may get a Nic buzz in the very beginning ( the short few seconds of being light headed) or you may calm down a little if you stressed but compared to the greener side of life (ehem) you get nothing but a bad habit and just death in the end i think its the govs way of thinning people out and whats messed up we do it to our selves. and like many above me have posted they are just ...... their product aint selling so much anymore and its pretty ***** that it all boils down to who's pockets are lined/ palms Greased Screw the FDA. it really worries me. because think about it. right now we have honest cool people making e liquids and promoting a better way of life but now that the FDA gets involved. whos to say they wouldn't put something messed up in there that actually would harm people just to prove their claim that "ecigs are bad" especially if juices have to be made to their specs its sad to say but i quit believing in this country long ago. don't get me wrong im glad to be here but this is just garbage Smh oh and i will go black market or DIY if need be who knows maybe build a fall out shelter lined with e-liquid and mods Lol. Ps. sorry for the crappy punctuation im getting tired good night ECF

 

[Roscoe01]

I gotta say this cause......well I gotta :-(

Let's not delude ourselves about the effect of the deeming regs. There is a lot of talk about workarounds and loopholes......I can guarantee that most modders will close up shop. Most modders do this as a hobby and not a primary source of income......with that being said I am positive that most of them won't risk their homes and family's wellbeing by selling contraband on the black market.

I beg all of you to not give up the good fight but also to prepare your own personal stash.

I do have a very important question to which I have yet to find the answer.......will possession of "unapproved" devices be a criminal offense?

My 2c

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