Dimitri Goes Off on Rant About Dishonest Liquid Vendors

[skoony]

So your Argument Boils down to if a Vaper wants Honest Disclosure from OEM's, and when an OEM Doesn't do this and Vapers Speak Out, that these Vapers are Supporters of FDA Deeming.

I call BS on this. And see it about as Deceptive as what five pawns and BT have done.

Your "Keep Quite" and "Look the Other Way" attitude when an OEM is caught Deceiving its Customers is Alarming at Best. And Completely Destroys any thought in Vapers or in Policy Makers Minds that the e-liquids Market can be Self-Regulated.

there is a difference between wanting and demanding
that has to be taken into account at some point.
regards
mike

 

[DC2]

i am all for voluntary disclosure for all those that voluntarily choose do so.
i just want to be clear on this issue.
regards
mike

Ah, it finally sunk in what your position is on this...
You don't like other companies publishing test results...

Well, I for one trusted five pawns for no good reason, and that was my mistake.
But it's a mistake I am not ever going to make again, with any vendor.

 

[Jman8]

How anyone can argue AGAINST voluntary disclosure is beyond my ability to grasp.

Who's arguing against voluntary disclosure? Show me these arguments.

 

[DC2]

Who's arguing against voluntary disclosure? Show me these arguments.

Well, there seems to be a lot of arguing AGAINST people who are simply calling for voluntary disclosure.
Or at least the idea of pushing vendors to voluntarily disclose, I guess.

Admittedly, I'm not really clear...

But the former is a no-brainer as far as I'm concerned.
The latter does get into territory that is a bit more murky.

 

[Jman8]

You don't like other companies publishing test results...

Cause that's not voluntary disclosure.

Or if it is, I just volunteered information showing how C9 is lying about 0 nic juices. Those favoring voluntary disclosure (of any kind) ought to be praising me for my desire to make sure we are all safe.

 

[skoony]

Ah, it finally sunk in what your position is on this...
You don't like other companies publishing test results...

Well, I for one trusted Five Pawns for no good reason, and that was my mistake.
But it's a mistake I am not ever going to make again, with any vendor.

i do not like company's using test results in slick marketing campaigns.
they could of tested their juices and left it at that.
regards
mike

 

[Jman8]

Well, there seems to be a lot of arguing AGAINST people who are simply calling for voluntary disclosure.
Or at least the idea of pushing vendors to voluntarily disclose.

The former is a no-brainer as far as I'm concerned.
The latter does get into territory that is a bit more murky.

The latter makes for logic of ANTZ. If that is voluntary disclosure, then FDA is pushing for a deeming regulation that will bring about a whole lot of voluntary disclosures. Or voluntary exit from the market.

 

[DC2]

Cause that's not voluntary disclosure.

Or if it is, I just volunteered information showing how C9 is lying about 0 nic juices. Those favoring voluntary disclosure (of any kind) ought to be praising me for my desire to make sure we are all safe.

I thought your argument regarding Cloud 9 was a bit of a stretch.

 

[zoiDman]

Ah, it finally sunk in what your position is on this...
You don't like other companies publishing test results...

Well, I for one trusted Five Pawns for no good reason, and that was my mistake.
But it's a mistake I am not ever going to make again, with any vendor.

And this is Where the Breakdown Occurred.

Five Pawns made a Claim, No Da and AP. But Refused to Publish it's Lab Reports.

And then the Breakdown Occurred again.

Five Pawns Disputed Cloud9's Lab Reports. But threatens Legal action if Anyone else wants to do Independent Testing and then Publish those Results.

 

[Jman8]

So your Argument Boils down to if a Vaper wants Honest Disclosure from OEM's, and when an OEM Doesn't do this and Vapers Speak Out, that these Vapers are Supporters of FDA Deeming.

No your feeble interpretation of my argument boils down to this. You've already demonstrated lack of understanding my arguments, so not so surprising to have it revealed further here.

 

[zoiDman]

I thought your argument regarding Cloud 9 was a bit of a stretch.

I think Most Did.

 

[DC2]

Five Pawns Disputed Cloud9's Lab Reports. But threatens Legal action if Anyone else wants to do Independent Testing and then Publish those Results.

And you know what, I'm starting to think Five Pawns is right in that respect.
Chain of Custody goes out the window when someone else tests and publishes the results.

The bottom line is that consumers need to speak with their wallets.
But before they can do so, they would need to become informed as to any issues.

We can't even agree on if there ARE issues though.


All I know is this whole debacle has opened my eyes.
And once my eyes have been opened, there's no closing them.

 

[zoiDman]

No your feeble interpretation of my argument boils down to this. You've already demonstrated lack of understanding my arguments, so not so surprising to have it revealed further here.

Face it Jman8. Anytime someone is Critical of ANYTHING e-Cigarette related, you Always try to Equate it to somehow Supporting Deeming. Or being an ANTZ.

I'm mean, it Isn't really Isn't some Big Secrete.

 

[zoiDman]

And you know what, I'm starting to think Five Pawns is right in that respect.
Chain of Custody goes out the window when someone else tests and publishes the results.

The bottom line is that consumers need to speak with their wallets.
But before they can do so, they would need to become informed as to any issues.

We can't even agree on if there ARE issues though.

Chain of Custody can be Confirmed. Just like Lab Reports can be Certified.

And I'm not sure why Five Pawns doesn't Ask a independent 3rd Party to Test there e-Liquids. Would this go a long Way to Disproving Cloud9's Results?

 

[kates]

i am all for voluntary disclosure for all those that voluntarily choose do so.

Agreed - and those that don't want to disclose don't lead resellers to believe they do.

 

[kates]

Chain of Custody can be Confirmed. Just like Lab Reports can be Certified.

And I'm not sure why Five Pawns doesn't Ask a independent 3rd Party to Test there e-Liquids. Would this go a long Way to Disproving Cloud9's Results?

I certainly hope they have done some testing on the returned C9 liquid otherwise someone out there might be vaping it.

 

[skoony]

And this is Where the Breakdown Occurred.

Five Pawns made a Claim, No Da and AP. But Refused to Publish it's Lab Reports.

And then the Breakdown Occurred again.

Five Pawns Disputed Cloud9's Lab Reports. But threatens Legal action if Anyone else wants to do Independent Testing and then Publish those Results.

well ok. now get to the lying and deceiving part.
according to the pdf's the first report was completely
different from the second. this of course would have
to be reconciled at some point i agree. its just as
likely they were trying to get to the bottom of the
situation in order to get it right. they might have
been just as confused as to whether or not AP and
or DP was in their products or how much if any there
was. not disclosing information to customers when
not necessarily knowing what you are talking about
or what it means is not lying and deceiving and could
have been construed as misleading and then we get
right back to the lying and deceiving backers.

regards
mike

 

[DC2]

Chain of Custody can be Confirmed.

Can it be confirmed in this case though?
After the fact?

If not, that does present a problem.
And would give Five Pawns the upper-hand in court.

But in the court of public opinion, the die has been cast.
I wonder if Five Pawns will sue.

One poster said that Five Pawns is being pulled by vendors in the EU and Canada.
I really wonder if that's true.

 

[zoiDman]

I certainly hope they have done some testing on the returned C9 liquid otherwise someone out there might be vaping it.

Yeah... I mean the Whole this Isn't Rocket Science.

Take a Member of the Bar and a Notary of the Republic into a Vape Store. Buy a Stupid Bottle of Five Pawn e-Liquids. Put it in a Box and Tape it Closed. Stamp the Tape with the Notary Stamp and have the Bar Member Sign and Date it. Then drive the Box to a Certified Lab and have the Lab Sign for it. You want to Video Tape the Whole thing. Great.

Then Post the Certified Result.

What is the Big Deal?

 

[skoony]

And this is Where the Breakdown Occurred.

Five Pawns made a Claim, No Da and AP. But Refused to Publish it's Lab Reports.

And then the Breakdown Occurred again.

Five Pawns Disputed Cloud9's Lab Reports. But threatens Legal action if Anyone else wants to do Independent Testing and then Publish those Results.

when did they refuse to publish the reports?
mike