Disrespectful Little Punk

[Zealous]

My issue with this thread is that if I was in a crowded elevator and some kid was blowing clouds, I'd say something too. I wouldn't jack him up...throw him against the wall and make him feel like an idiot...I wouldn't "accost" him. I would do like the op actually said he did. I'd let him know that I'm a fellow vaper and suggest a little more discretion when we're shoulder to shoulder with strangers....again, like the op said he did.

You & I must not have read the same OP. I don't think that's what he said he did. Telling someone they could wait 5 minutes instead of acting like a hipster while shopping isn't at all like suggesting a little more discretion when shoulder to shoulder with vapers. And telling someone they're giving vapers a bad name isn't suggesting a little discretion either. Both of those things are accusing someone of things & imo sort of attacking a person verbally.

But what I think is happening in THIS thread is that some people are giving the OP more credit than he earned while others are giving the "punk" a bit more than he's earned. Since no one here actually knows exactly what happened we all have to go on assumptions & how we imagine this scenario really happened. You happen to think that the OP was nicer than his post implies. I happen to think the "punk" was not as punky as the OP implies.

 

[Asbestos4004]

You & I must not have read the same OP. I don't think that's what he said he did. Telling someone they could wait 5 minutes instead of acting like a hipster while shopping isn't at all like suggesting a little more discretion when shoulder to shoulder with vapers. And telling someone they're giving vapers a bad name isn't suggesting a little discretion either. Both of those things are accusing someone of things & imo sort of attacking a person verbally.

But what I think is happening in THIS thread is that some people are giving the OP more credit than he earned while others are giving the "punk" a bit more than he's earned. Since no one here actually knows exactly what happened we all have to go on assumptions & how we imagine this scenario really happened. You happen to think that the OP was nicer than his post implies. I happen to think the "punk" was not as punky as the OP implies.

You're probably right...I zoned in on the word "politely". Hard to say what happened.

 

[Jman8]

I am by no means against vaping indoors, in no smoking areas, smoking areas.....anywhere that doesn't directly affect those around me. I equate a checkout line with a crowded elevator. Common sense and common courtesy tells me to wait until I get off the crowded elevator. Stealth vaping is a different story....if one isn't blowing out a bunch of vapor in the air...no one cares.

I would say crowded elevator and check-out line are inherently different. Just like megastore and outside are different, even while there is similarity. Crowded elevator is space where you are very likely touching 2 of the walls and could touch all four in matter of seconds. Checkout line can have lots of air space where vapor may go. In checkout line, it may not be noticeable to people in the same line.

My issue with this thread is that if I was in a crowded elevator and some kid was blowing clouds, I'd say something too.

Just out of curiosity, why do you say "blowing clouds" to make the point? I ask cause I am on cigalike and compared to mods, I don't blow clouds, probably can't blow clouds. But also ask cause it seems like one of the buzz words meant to change opinion on the topic.

I wouldn't jack him up...throw him against the wall and make him feel like an idiot...I wouldn't "accost" him.

Accost is getting misunderstood in this thread. It's being treated as "threaten with violence" whereas meaning of the word has been posted in this thread. It is addressing someone boldly, which is to me very similar to "a good talking to."

I would do like the op actually said he did. I'd let him know that I'm a fellow vaper and suggest a little more discretion when we're shoulder to shoulder with strangers....again, like the op said he did. I just don't see how that's such a radical point of view.

I could see confronting the youngster in OP, but as I can't see me ever saying the words "giving vapers a bad name," I don't think I'd come across in the same way or approach in the same way. I'd be asking questions and letting (or leading) this person to come to understanding of respect, perhaps updating my thoughts as well in that conversation. I see OP engaging in accosting and for all I know, that may be effective with this person. Might not, but hard to say. Yet, if I were on the other end of "giving vapers a bad name," we'd be talking for awhile longer, or someone (not me) would walk away with their tail between their legs.

There's no need to go to extremes and say he belittled anyone or accosted anyone. There's also no need to think that anyone opposed to vaping in checkout lines or crowded elevators are against vaping indoors or no smoking areas all together. Vaping is not smoking. I've had many opportunities to educate people on what we do. People tend to be much more receptive to facts when the situation doesn't start out with an IN Your Face moment...like vaping in a checkout line might be perceived.

It is just odd that some of these threads in this vein are coming from fellow vapers. Like we are hyper sensitive to the "vaping in public" scenario. As others have said on this thread, when I vape in public, it is mostly a non-issue. As I've said elsewhere on ECF, I'm batting 1.000 and that means no one telling me no. If I were approached by fellow vaper, I would be respectful (very courtesy) up to point of them trying to scold me. Then I would match their energy and not back down based on what I see as under informed political awareness on this topic.

Which is what I feel in these threads, often. It starts off as one thing (usually rant by OP) and turns into back'n'forth on the politics of vaping in public. And one side routinely comes across to me as under informed about the politics. To the degree of ignoring the actual political situation (found at your local hearings) and making points about "respect" and "common sense" as if the vape everywhere position is devoid of that. Which is rather insulting and thus deserves to have feathers ruffled if sticking to that sort of rhetoric.

 

[Asbestos4004]

I would say crowded elevator and check-out line are inherently different. Just like megastore and outside are different, even while there is similarity. Crowded elevator is space where you are very likely touching 2 of the walls and could touch all four in matter of seconds. Checkout line can have lots of air space where vapor may go. In checkout line, it may not be noticeable to people in the same line.



Just out of curiosity, why do you say "blowing clouds" to make the point? I ask cause I am on cigalike and compared to mods, I don't blow clouds, probably can't blow clouds. But also ask cause it seems like one of the buzz words meant to change opinion on the topic.



Accost is getting misunderstood in this thread. It's being treated as "threaten with violence" whereas meaning of the word has been posted in this thread. It is addressing someone boldly, which is to me very similar to "a good talking to."



I could see confronting the youngster in OP, but as I can't see me ever saying the words "giving vapers a bad name," I don't think I'd come across in the same way or approach in the same way. I'd be asking questions and letting (or leading) this person to come to understanding of respect, perhaps updating my thoughts as well in that conversation. I see OP engaging in accosting and for all I know, that may be effective with this person. Might not, but hard to say. Yet, if I were on the other end of "giving vapers a bad name," we'd be talking for awhile longer, or someone (not me) would walk away with their tail between their legs.



It is just odd that some of these threads in this vein are coming from fellow vapers. Like we are hyper sensitive to the "vaping in public" scenario. As others have said on this thread, when I vape in public, it is mostly a non-issue. As I've said elsewhere on ECF, I'm batting 1.000 and that means no one telling me no. If I were approached by fellow vaper, I would be respectful (very courtesy) up to point of them trying to scold me. Then I would match their energy and not back down based on what I see as under informed political awareness on this topic.

Which is what I feel in these threads, often. It starts off as one thing (usually rant by OP) and turns into back'n'forth on the politics of vaping in public. And one side routinely comes across to me as under informed about the politics. To the degree of ignoring the actual political situation (found at your local hearings) and making points about "respect" and "common sense" as if the vape everywhere position is devoid of that. Which is rather insulting and thus deserves to have feathers ruffled if sticking to that sort of rhetoric.

I really don't feel like dissecting everything I said to suit you...no disrespect intended. I just have no desire to break down my every sentence and play semantics with you. What I said is pretty simple and self explanatory. It's not a very radical opinion...Checkout line, crowded elevator= 2 crowded spots. Good Lord

 

[Jman8]

I really don't feel like dissecting everything I said to suit you...no disrespect intended. I just have no desire to break down my every sentence and play semantics with you. What I said is pretty simple and self explanatory. It's not a very radical opinion...Checkout line, crowded elevator= 2 crowded spots. Good Lord

Seems disrespectful, but oh well.

Checkout line is as dissimilar to elevator as megastore is to outdoors. I stand by that.

 

[Asbestos4004]

You go ahead and stand by that....and thank you for a post I don't have to take a nap in the middle of reading.

 

[Jman8]

You go ahead and stand by that....and thank you for a post I don't have to take a nap in the middle of reading.

Thanks for continuing the lack of respect for civil discourse on the topic.

 

[crxess]

Some imagine this:


Others like thinking this:


Only the Op knows what really was happening with this:


All the rest is speculation and assumption

Now, where is Retired1

 

[wv2win]

This is the calmest and most readable post I have seen from you in a while.

Thank you!

It is not always about what you wish to point out, but how it is pointed out.

That is because the poster I was responding to made a reasoned distinction in his post between vaping indoors in a respectful manner, instead of what a few posters do, which is rail against vaping where smoking is banned regardless of how it is done or just make snarky comments that vaping indoors causes vaping bans. He sees both sides of the coin and understands it's not a "black & white" issue but instead is situational.

I appreciate that common sense, reasoned approach which is alien to the usual suspects.

 

[danca90]

My parents met at a Black Flag concert in Knoxville, TN. Punk isn't a bad thing.

 

[mgmrick]

ecigarettes will normalize smoking again ..........

Yes a right place and a wrong place.....but let's stop hiding something we should not be hiding

 

[Bobbilly]

ecigarettes will normalize smoking again ..........

Yes a right place and a wrong place.....but let's stop hiding something we should not be hiding

E cigarettes will normalize e cigarettes and not to use cigarettes.

 

[Giraut]

ecigarettes will normalize smoking again .........

An artificial social stigma has been (rightfully) attached to the act of smoking, to fight harmful tobacco usage. It's taken decades, but now in most modern societies, tobacco laws aren't strictly necessary anymore: most individuals have internalized the ban, and now enforce it themselves. Just like most drivers wouldn't start their car without buckling up first: they've been so brainwashed into doing so that they don't feel right if they don't now.

But the no-smoking brainwashing works because, up to recently, you could equate blowing smoke out of your mouth with health damage (yours or others'). Not so anymore with vaping: in 2014, you can appear to be smoking, but in fact hurt nobody.

That's bound to confuse the issue: you're presenting an image to many people who have lived all their lives with the idea that someone with smoke coming out of their mouth should be demonized. You can rationalize it all you want, you're up against a deeply-rooted rejection reflex that has been planted in people's brains from the youngest age, for the good of society as a whole.

E-cigarettes won't normalize smoking, they'll make people angry, and they'll elicit knee-jerk reactions if vapers get too in-your-face about them. People's negative reactions toward vapers are no more rational than people's reactions to seeing naked women on the beach in certain cultures: it's just a set of cultural values that people have grown up with, that clashes with a new reality that's presented to them. And old certainties die hard.

If we vapers don't realize we're walking on eggs here, and try to impose ourselves, society's backlash against us will be severe, althought we'll have done nothing wrong. Think about it before you pull out your eGo at Walmart and exercise your right to vape...

 

[Bobbilly]

So there will be no backlash if vapers just impose it on themselves? Good point.

 

[TheSystemHasFailed]

My parents met at a Black Flag concert in Knoxville, TN. Punk isn't a bad thing.

Pretty much the best post in this toilet of a thread.

 

[Bernard Marx]

I vape and I love it. I know however that that really diminishes me in the eyes of the vast majority for whatever reason. Therefore I vape in private. Why the heck not? I don't have anything to prove to anybody.

 

[johnspack]

I agree, it's not worth the hassle. I've tried bringing mine out and people stop and ask "are you smoking pot in that?" they don't get it. So much has been made over the dangers of smoking, anything that even seems remotely similar will be a target. I mostly hide my ecigs now as well. It's a shame, but we have to dodge the ignorance of the general public. They don't understand we are vaporizing 2 food grade additives with some nicotine, they think it's still tobacco, or something worse. I'd rather semi-hide this than have the Canadian gov completely ban it. It's really all the un and mis informed who do this to us. They can't spend a few minutes on the internet to educate themselves. I fear for our future, and not just ecigs......

 

[Iffy]

It's a shame...

Only 'cause YOU perceive it as such!

...but we have to dodge the ignorance of the general public.

Ya ever think YOU can educate the GP, or at least attempt to do so?

They can't spend a few minutes on the internet to educate themselves.

And YOU can't spend the same few minutes to tell your 'bakky cessation/harm reduction story in a logical and convincing manner...

I fear for our future, and not just ecigs......

With the lack of your initiative and your defeatist attitude, so do I!!!


BTW, gotta ask, are ya a CASAA member? Ummm...

 

[Bernard Marx]

I y'am what I am an' that's all that I y'am.

 

[johnspack]

Good lord no... I'm on permanent disability, and one of my disorders is acute anxiety. I can't hold up the torch. I wish I could, I would scream at every person on the street and say "this is saving f'ing lives ......". My biggest scream is online, where I try to educate others about ecigs and how they can help smokers get off tobacco. Life is never that simple you know.....