DIY Master Techniques - Determining Flavor Percentages

[micksf]

I'm starting a series of threads asking the old and new pros to give us their DIY techniques , most of which is already out there but now hopefully all collected here, in one place. I've started different threads for different topics.

This thread is specifically for Determining Individual Flavor Percentages.*

In this thread, please post your method for determining percentages for new individual flavors (ex. test size, percentage starting point, percentage increments, steep/ no steep, ect.)

Please give specifics and include any info that people might find helpful. Please don't hijack this thread with debates, it's more about sharing your individual successful experiences and methods. Thanks to everyone for their input.



*please use my other Masters threads for other topics
www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/268758-diy-master-techniques-steeping.html
www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/268759-diy-masters-techniques-mixing-flavors.html
www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy...ques-flavor-add-ons-em-vw-bw-mts-acv-ect.html

 

[Str8V8ping]

How to test new flavors to determine percentages

Fill a 3ml bottle with 20 drops of pg with dropper .The bottle is marked off for the 20 drop level. Then i add one drop of flavoring with the same dropper . I then shake the bottle and put 3 drops in a atty and vape it. I then add 2 drops pg and another drop flavoring to keep the bottle at the marked level . Next i drop 3 drops and vape (10%) . Then repeat until 20-25% just to be sure i dont undershoot my sweet spot and to know what it tastes like when it reaches a over flavored percentage . On flavors i think are going to be stronger i will start with a 40 drop base so i can start at 2.5% . Its not 100% accurate but its pretty close . I have done this on about 90 out of the 100+ flavorings i have .Its works really well to improve your diying . I dont know how id diy without doing it now . On each flavor i take notes and right down the sweet spot percentage and then taste notes on the flavor and overflavor etc . I also let them steep when im done and try it the next day and write notes on the taste after steeping . I have probably 90% of my Capellas flavoring to be right at 15% . Iv found 2 or 3 i think to be under 15% and a few that were 20% . My numbers do vary a lot with other vendors. HealthCabin is one that iv found almost all to be under 5% . Some like cereal sweetcorn was best at .75% . I had to dilute it in pg .

 

[Str8V8ping]

Heres a good bit of Info iv found on Capellas site which i like to go off of on percentages as well as how i like to determine what percentage works good for me .Great info so ill repost .

everyones taste buds are different but just wanted to post this information to help people out and give a general average on percentages . You may be more or less sensitive but Capellas formulates their flavorings to be all equal in concentration . This is one thing i havent seen from other flavoring companies . They have testers which give feedback to formulate a average concentration . Of course this may vary to some but there recommendation is a good place to start in which you can adjust up or down from you liking. Capellas recommendation is 15-20% shown below . I have personally found it to be spot on accurate with my testing before iv even read Capellas recommendation so it was a completely unbiased finding .

Capella Flavor Drops for e-Liquid (DIY) use

e-Liquid ( DIY e-Juice) Standard Mixing Technique
Here is a general approach to use for those starting our with mixing their own e-liquid (e-juice). When using Capella Flavor Drops a good starting point is 15-20% dilution in either PG (Propylene Glycol), VG (Vegetable Glycerin), or a mix of both.
An easy example would be if you created a 10ml e-liquid batch as a test, use 8ml of either PG (Propylene Glycol) or VG (Vegetable Glycerin) and add 2ml of your favorite Capella Flavor Drops flavor. This will give you a 80/20 pct mix. For a larger mix, just multiply out.


Capella Flavor Drops for e-Liquid (DIY) use
Just another little note on the link above it is clearly stated that :

Our Flavors are Food Grade Flavorings , and are DIACETYL FREE.
NOT PERFUME Chemicals or Perfume ingredients.

 

[micksf]

I'd be grateful if more old pros jumped in to let us know their process. I know you've said it all many times already but this thread could be a great resource us up and comers. Thanks to all that have added their comments, much appreciated.

 

[micksf]

From Bostonsnboxers...

it's a good idea to test with just pg/vg so you don't waste your nic. Here's an example and I hope it helps...if not, please ask again

For this example, I'm going to use 3ml ...
put 3ml of pg or vg in a container
add .3 ml of flavoring to give you 10% flavoring

If it's too strong, add more pg until it tastes right to you. If too weak add more flavor. (keep track of what you're adding)
Once you decide what's good (as an example let's say you ended up liking .3ml of flavor in 5 ml of base.
You now know that if you want to mix up 20ml of juice, you need 1.2ml of flavor (based on .3ml per 5ml).

Or...you could do the same with drops if that's what you prefer, but it gets to be a PIB when mixing larger amounts.
Just keep track of how much flavor you like in a small ml sample, then multiply it by the mls of juice you want to make (notes..keep lots of notes).

 

[micksf]

From ToweKnee...

When mixing with new flavors I always start out at 5%. With tobacco stuff I start at 1%. Its much easier to add then take away.



from the original thread...
www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/251044-capellas-111.html

 

[micksf]

From Str8V8ping...

20 drops PG/VG
1 drop of flavor = 5%
2 drops =10%
3 drops = 15%
and so on.

Shake (I run it under hot water then shake)and throw it on an atty to taste.

Once you figure out where you'd like to have your percentage, throw it in your calculator and make a bottle.

from the original thread...
www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/255452-flavor-testing-no-nic.html

 

[micksf]

From Ehvam...

A Cool Way to Taste Flavorings
When I first started DIY I ordered alot of different flavorings I thought I would like/need. In trying to use the flacors I found I was overwhelmed by them and getting to know what each flavoring brought to the party has been slow going. Until I thought of a new way to try them out. I find that mixing a flavoring, vaping it, etc etc was a bit tedious, so I tried this and it has helped.

I take 5ml of water and mix one drop of a flavoring and swish it around my mouth. Its amazing how much it helps to "learn" a flavoring really taste what it like. I use exactly 5 ml, so I can gauge how potent the flavoring is. If iy needs two drops I know its a weaker flavor that will need to be a higher percentage. If its too strong I know it will require less.
Its really helped me make better mixes. True, the flavor, once mixed in pg/vg changes a bit, but not as much as you'd think. Its worked really well for me so far.

from the original post...
www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/262170-cool-way-taste-flavorings.html

 

[micksf]

From AzPlumber...

When I get a flavor that is new to me, a quick smell and taste a tiny bit from a dipped toothpick. This gives me a starting point (%) for my initial tester batch.


from the original post...
www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/262170-cool-way-taste-flavorings.html

 

[micksf]

From Flavourart representative... regarding FA starting test percentages.

Tobacco 2%

Fruits 3-4%

Warm (chocolate, vanilla, maple caramel ) 5%


 

[micksf]

From tricci...

One great piece of advice is to mix your flavors in just VG/PG in a small batch say 5mls until you figure out the flavor percentage you like then make a real batch. Better to wast flavorings and VG/PG than expensive nic.



from the original post...
www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/255104-mixing-question-day-one.html

 

[micksf]

From Hoosier's Blog...

See more of his blog here...
E-Cigarette Forum - Hoosier - Blogs



Hoosier's levels of flavoring from too little to too much:

Nothing (Did I forget to add the flavoring?)

Something Odd (This does not taste like the flavor I put in there.)

I Can Taste Something Kinda' Like It (I can detect the higher or spice notes, but not the actual taste)

Hooo, It's There, but Real Light (Getting close now, let it steep before adding any more)

Bingo (Duh, we have a juice)

Hmmmm, That Is Close, But Has A "Je Ne Sais Pas" of Oddness (Dang didn't let it steep and I overshot)
Kinda' Close, but the Perfumey/Chemically Kills It (Going into the too much realm here and may be due to ignoring the steep part of #4.)

Whoo, Did I Forget to Put the Flavoring In? (Too much flavoring can actually make things impossible to taste.)

Note that the first tier and last tier are much alike, the only difference is the way the unvaped juice smells. If it smells fairly close, but has no flavor then it is usually too much. (Usually, not always as there are exceptions.)

 

[micksf]

from pinellaspete...


Here are a few things I have learned from DIY in the past few months:

Tobacco flavors are VERY STRONG!
I usually mix in 5ml batches. I only use 2 drops per 5ml. If I mixed a 10ml batch there are some tobaccos I would use only 3 drops because they are still slightly strong at 2 drops per 5ml. Tobacco flavors NEED to steep for a week after mixing. Tobacco flavors are the big culprits in people complaining about chemical/perfume taste in their juices. The juices just need to age for awhile.

I am using Flavor Art tobacco flavorings. I use them as bought, and undiluted, when I am talking about drops.

You might also consider adding 1 or 2 drops of Ethyl Maltol per 5ml to sweeten your tobacco mixes. If a mix has just tobacco flavorings it will tend to be harsh with a very sharp edge. Ethyl Maltol or some other sweetener will help take this edge off and reduce the harshness.


from the original post...
www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/251515-tobacco-flavour-percentage.html

 

[MrBeo]

I would like to add to this: Tobacco Flavors are VERY STRONG!

I have a Honey Wood tobacco that I got from FW and I have read a lot here and folks thoughts on the over powering perfume smell that can chase you out of a room anyway I mixed a batch at .50 percent and not the 1% of most tobacco's and found it to be a nice flavor after a 2 week steep! I can see even at 1% being overwhelmed by the perfume scent and the power of perfume it would leave in your Atomizer. Point is FW Honey wood tobacco is VERY STRONG but nice if mixed at a very low perscent!!!

 

[GrannyM]

When I first started DIY, I used a method similar to what STR8 posted above. In Dec 2010, I read a post by MaxUT that changed the way I do things. For me, this is ultimately an easier & more reliable method for determining percentages. Because Max had so many good points in that post, I'm quoting it in its entirety.

Definitely FlavourArt for tobacco flavorings, but in my experience:

Flavoring concentration can be a problem to develop-- it's a very individual thing: some people will like 2%, others prefer 12%, most are somewhere in between. And it varies between different flavors. And up to a point it also varies with aging time.

Tobacco flavored liquids seem to require the most aging until the full flavor develops, especially if two or more flavors are combined. It can be shortened somewhat by periodic heating and shaking, but think in terms of weeks if you're serious about obtaining the best possible taste that is stable over time.

I'm not trying to discourage you Jeff, but in starting out I've made a lot of attempts that ended up in the "Tobacco" bottle. That was not a money saver at all. It's possible to make good low-cost juice, but only after you've discovered that which suits your personal taste.

I would recommend starting gradually, with a single flavor, making small, 2-4mL sized carefully-measured batches and writing down the recipes for each. Use 6mL bottles*, label each with something like "Cuban 6% Dec.11" which you can track back to your notebook. Give each batch at least a week before sampling. Write down tasting notes.

Try making a group of samples in the same mixing session with a spread of percentages such as 4% - 6% - 8% and compare them with each other after they've aged a bit. If you like the 6% best, then the next group could be 5% - 6% - 7%. Save some of the samples and compare them again after a month or more has passed; you may be pleasantly surprised at how they've changed.

Don't expect to completely switch over to DIY juice right away, so continue to order your regular premixed juice so that you don't run out of good vape, at least until you're confident that you can reproduce tasty recipes.

*nearly as cheap as 3mL but easier to add liquid, harder to tip over, has a larger area for label, plenty of headspace for shaking

 

[chrismp]

Don't want to ruin the flood of information but - damn good work with these threads micksf.

Someone should really PM a mod to get this into it's own sticky or integrated into the "Guide to DIY vaping" Because I'm sure lots of new people will miss this.

 

[micksf]

From ToweKnee...

Flavor is very subjective to each person for sure. I would always recommend starting low in flavor and build up. Its so much easier to add than trying to thin it out. I made a habit of making small batches 5mil of each flavor. Just to know what each one tastes like. Some you wont use as a stand alone that much your finding out now. Its a total learning process and finding out what works for you. Warning though DIY can get quite addicting trying to find new ways and new things to create with but its so much fun and still cheaper than buying your juice. Next you will be looking for EM, sucralose and other things to accent your flavors!



from the original thread...
www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/271617-percentage-flavoring.html

 

[micksf]

From AzPlumber ...


There are several ways to deal with flavor %:

1. As you have eluded to 1drp flavor to 19drps pg/vg = 5% - drip two drps & taste, add 1drp flavor & 1drp pg/vg =10% - drip two drps & taste, etc

2. This is what I do as I believe mixes need to sit at least a day and some a week or two and I can come back to each % as a reference. On a new to me flavor I dip a tooth pick in the flavor and taste, this will give you a sense of how strong it is. I then make three different %'s in 5 ml batches. The %'s vary depending on how strong I think the flavoring is. Let's say 5%, 7.5% & 10%. I then let them sit at least a day some mixes at least a week. I then taste them each several times over the next few days. Once I have decided on a % I will mix them all together add nic and make adjustments to bring it to the chosen %.


from the original post...

[url]www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/272350-help-necessary-someone-who-just-cannot-grasp-diy-thing-3.html[/URL]

 

[micksf]

From mwa102464 ...

Mix up your juice without adding any Nic at all, get your base with you PG/VG/Flavorings. any additives ( your base ) right and just perfect, test this base NO NIC try making your recipes like this as a beginner it helps you to get a feel of how everything comes together. Then you can add your Nic to your final product, just put how much base you have into one of the % slots on your calc and it will then tell you how much Nic to add at the end.

Like I said this will give you not only a feel but also your taste buds will tell you if it is the right recipe, then you can add your nic,,, also you can put your base in a bottle and let it sit in some very warm water to help it all mend together for a bit if need be to take out some steep time, but still let it sit for a day. you can always add an extra drop of flavoring at the very end as well if you want to fine tune the recipe.


From canoeist...

Make 5 ml plain and add one drop of flavor & try it. If you can't taste the flavor, add another drop, then another. I tested my Capella flavors at 5% (20 drops mix to 1 drop flavor) and got tons of flavor from all 5 flavors. I am adding 1 drop of Capella Cin Coffee Cake to 4 ml with 6% em in it and vaping it right now with good flavor. Sometimes for some people, it does not take much.



From the original thread...

www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy...y-first-attempts-diying-need-some-advice.html

 

[JmeMcG]

As a noob, I wish threads like this could be made into a sticky. I have read all the stickies in the DIY section several times over now and there is a GREAT amount of info there (also GREAT information!), but this thread has really helped me UNDERSTAND how to really test/taste flavors. I knew when I decided I would try to get started trying to mix my own I would only mix PG/VG and no nic so I was feeling "safe" as far as the toxic factor goes, but was feeling pretty disappointed with my attempts thus far. I know now that I was starting off way too strong on the flavoring. Taste is SO subjective, this i know first hand already (I have never been a picky bi*ch until now...seriously, I will even give you my husbands direct phone number just so you can confirm) and although I have bought juices from many highly recommended vendors, some have been good, some NOT! and some just hmmm... Not saying that the juices were not good, just not good to me. I am still looking for my ADV. Which is what leads me here.
Anyway, good tips, good read and great information for a noob to get started. Thank you to micsf for the OP and compiling all the great tips for noobs here! and thanks, as well, to the posters of all the great advice and information.