DIY Master Techniques - Flavor Add-on's (EM, VW, BW, MTS, ACV, ect)

[boborone]

Subscribing post

 

[junior28186]

just wanna know before doing this, lemon juice WILL mute or its okay for fruits but very sparingly,
apple cinder vinegar for bakeray and tobbaccos is ok but very sparingly or mute after month???

planning to do very big batches, dont wanna toss em after a month

if anyone have a good info on PH in juice and how that interac, i really wanna know this, seems IMO the biggest point of DIY and flavor retention in juices

 

[Harleybarbie]

Ok, I read this from this site:
e-Liquid Calculator :: Master Mixer's e-Juice Tips & Tricks

Malic and Citric Acid
Usually called "Tart & Sour", is used the same way as Malic Acid, to make fruit flavors "pop". Dosage is also similar at 1-2 drops per 10 ml liquid. Higher percentages will impart a Jolly Rancher-like effect.

I have an apple candy flavor from TFA, I'm wanting to know how much more than 2 % you would use to get to a Jolly Rancher Apple?? Could I use TPA Sweet and Tart to achieve the same results?

 

[we2rcool]

just wanna know before doing this, lemon juice WILL mute or its okay for fruits but very sparingly,
apple cinder vinegar for bakeray and tobbaccos is ok but very sparingly or mute after month???

planning to do very big batches, dont wanna toss em after a month

if anyone have a good info on PH in juice and how that interac, i really wanna know this, seems IMO the biggest point of DIY and flavor retention in juices

We seriously 'muted' two major-sized test batches of tobaccos with vinegar at 1 drop per 10ml (we had no idea what was happening at the time - just kept 'upping the flavor', all to have it become 'substantially less' after steeping for a few days).

And we've experienced 'muting' with lemon juice and wethink 'tart & sour (only used tart & sour twice - but both times the flavor lessened a few days after mixing).



Regarding the addition of sucralose (and other additives that diminish flavor), from here, Post #413: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/268760-diy-master-techniques-flavor-add-ons-em-vw-bw-mts-acv-ect-11.html

As far as I can recall, I was the one who tested lemon juice and the effects it had on fruit flavors. At the time I was also using sucralose (ezsweets) in fruit/bakery flavors. I also tested distilled vinegar (not acv, I dont use it) on tobaccos.

What I found with fruit and bakery vapes is they were great initally with the additives, for about two days. Then on day 3 like clockwork the sharpness/crispness of the flavor was just... plain... gone. It never rebounded either. It just continued decline. So I started testing the same juices with lemon juice and sucralose separately. Trying to find the culprit. The result in my tests was that they BOTH decrease flavor output of ejuice. While they help initally boost and sweeten flavor, within a few days, they both cause ejuice to simply go flat. While its a more dramatic example, I feel the same way about ejuice with lemon or sucralose as I do about flat soda pop. Its just lackluster.

This occured in both high VG bases at 80% and high PG bases at 80%. I tested both because I didnt want people calling me out saying VG mutes flavor, which to this day I refute as utter nonsense.

I no longer use either in any of my mixing. I have found that using fruit flavors with alcohol bases provide more than enuff sweetening o. their own if they are steeped for 48-72 hours, and it helps that I use 80%VG in my juice.

As far as tobaccos go I also agree vinegar that after a few days it can flatten flavors over time. However!!! As I vape mostly tobacco ejuices I still add 1 drop/5ml of distilled white vinegar to my vapes. To counter the flattening I adjust by adding slightly more flavoring. About .5% to 1% more flavoring in a final mix. In my experience this counters the effect of flavor flattening with DV and allows mostly all tobacco vapes to round out immediately. (note: i also heat steep my juices at a constant 150° in a water bath in a crock pot for four hours after mixing and have found it it adds about 2 weeks to the aging process of ejuice). At the 2 weeks mark (in my case then this is 4 hours after mixing), all of your tobacco flavors will have a spike in flavor and will stay there, but only round more given time. Giving you a spiked up flavor but still rounded body to your vape. I found apple cider vinegar made bad and good juuces worse with no spike at all, but to be fair I barely ever tested acv.

All of my vapes... yes read that as ALL... are primed and full bodied in four hours. Period. Ultrasonic isnt the answer either. Hand shaking is enuff for juice. Heat allows flavor dissipation and release FAR FAR better.

Alot of what I do flys in the face of common and well "documented" processes others use like ultrasonic steeping tho. (if it works for ya, great. I know what I know and heat is the key, not vibration. And yeah, I tested that too about three months ago so I stand behind it).

People just pretty much ignored my testing. I took painstaking measures to control the samples and.prove to myself the results. Today when people say they use lemon juice, or sucralose and RAVE about the results.... I know they are NOT vaping stellar juice. They are absolutely, positively, better off without both. Unless they are going to vape what they make in under two days.

Note: I did not bother testing the effects of citric acid powder in juice, but I assume it has the same effect as lemon juice and mutes flavors.

 

[boomerdude]

Lemon juice at 1 drp. per 5 mls. makes fruit flavors pop. Apple cider vinegar at the same amount takes grassy taste out of tobaccos. Both change the pH of a juice, which is primarily what they're used for in mixing.

 

[flowerpots]

Lemon juice at 1 drp. per 5 mls. makes fruit flavors pop. Apple cider vinegar at the same amount takes grassy taste out of tobaccos. Both change the pH of a juice, which is primarily what they're used for in mixing.

Does this change last? Meaning, if I use these two adjunct ingredients, will the flavors change and/or have the flavor fade due to using them?

 

[Blueser]

Apple cider vinegar at the same amount takes grassy taste out of tobaccos.

I have a boatload of tobacco flavors from just about every flavor manufacturer. Maybe someone can explain to me why certain tobacco flavors are extremely grassy tasting and other's aren't. I've never cared for the grassy tasting tobacco's whether ACV was added or not and regardless of time aged. I have several grassy tobacco's with/without ACV that have been ageing for several months. I've revisited these on several occasions and they still taste like cr*p.

I see no need or flavor enhancement with ACV but rather the opposite. I've long stopped using ACV. My preferred tobacco flavors are good on their own. In fact, I'm totally satisfied with the way my preferred flavors taste without the need for so-called enhancer's. VW, MTS, ACV...no way I'm adding that junk to my mixes...I started off using these diy master suggestions and they've all been dumped down the drain.

Personally I think people believe what their mind tells them to believe...they read somewhere where a believed-to-be diy master says "add so-and-so, it'll make your flavor's pop" ...I think they meant flop...

 

[we2rcool]

Vinegars & lemon juice definitely diminish flavor over time, no matter what they do initially. Whatever "enhancement" they have, works for "shake n' vape" that are going to be used up in a few days.

Anybody can easily test it, and many of us have. The only ones that still believe these additives don't diminish flavor are the ones that haven't tested it, or the ones that are too egoically involved to test it (or believe what they taste when they do).

Some things are not subjective in DIY.

Disclaimer: oh yes, there might be a rare flavor or two that aren't affected.

 

[boomerdude]

I don't know where this idea of fading flavor due to Lemon Juice and ACV is coming from. Both are tried and true additives. Lemon juice helps fruit flavors come to the forefront of a juice especially citrus flavors. ACV helps cut down the grassy or bitter taste in tobacco flavors. As for lasting, I can't see a reason for the pH of a juice rising or falling due to age. That is, if your bottle of juice is stored in a cool dark environment.

Does this change last? Meaning, if I use these two adjunct ingredients, will the flavors change and/or have the flavor fade due to using them?

 

[boomerdude]

I've been making extracts and juices for two years and I've done experiment after experiment with additives. I might be old school but these additives work for me and many others. We don't blame our failures on the ingredients, we just go back to testing. Use them or not, it's up to you. Also, you may want to keep in mind that Virginia tobaccos are going to taste grassy. It's inherent in that type of tobacco and all the ACV in the world isn't going to help.Balancing the mix with Burley or an Oriental will mask some of the grassiness and ACV will help with the bitterness of the Orientals, especially the sun-dried variety.

Vinegars & lemon juice definitely diminish flavor over time, no matter what they do initially. Whatever "enhancement" they have, works for "shake n' vape" that are going to be used up in a few days.

Anybody can easily test it, and many of us have. The only ones that still believe these additives don't diminish flavor are the ones that haven't tested it, or the ones that are too egoically involved to test it (or believe what they taste when they do).

Some things are not subjective in DIY.

Disclaimer: oh yes, there might be a rare flavor or two that aren't affected.

 

[dsy5]

Maybe someone can explain to me why certain tobacco flavors are extremely grassy tasting and other's aren't. ...

Could be the grassy tasting ones are using Tobacco Absolute as their tobacco flavoring ingredient...

 

[Pathogenius]

Never used TA myself, but my Latakia (flavour art) does have the 'grass' thing, in the profile it's actually described as 'hay'. FA dark vapure also tastes very similar but my buddy disagrees

 

[Blueser]

There's not one iota of a grassy taste with my Azure TA...I add a few or more drops to a lot of my tobacco's. Hangsen TB taste very grassy. The INW Virginia TA has a distinct taste, not bad, not grassy but not something at this point I particularly like...might have mixed it too heavy...dunno but I'll take mine without the grass thank you...

 

[mavrider]

I have been using HS TU tobacco flavoring for my "Turkish" ADV for the last 14 months. now suddenly the turkish taste in all of my new batches is gone and has been replaced with the "grassy, wheat field" taste. I use one drop of ACV per 10 ml and always have to rid the flavor of that after taste. But now I cannot get back to the good taste. I believe HS or the outlet I buy it from (to remain unnamed) has changed something in the formula. Does anyone else have any such problem?

 

[proteckt3d]

I would like to lower the pH of my liquids and I was curious what can be used for this. I read here in the forum that acidic additives, lemon concentrate and ACV do that but which others? E.g Bitter wizard, VW or EM

 

[Absinte]

bought this at a local pharmacy, as i'm not sure if it can be use, can anyone enlighten me please?

 

[AmandaD]

bought this at a local pharmacy, as i'm not sure if it can be use, can anyone enlighten me please? View attachment 341008

Yup, that looks exactly right!

 

[Absinte]

Thanks AmandaD!

 

[dannyv45]

I have been using HS TU tobacco flavoring for my "Turkish" ADV for the last 14 months. now suddenly the turkish taste in all of my new batches is gone and has been replaced with the "grassy, wheat field" taste. I use one drop of ACV per 10 ml and always have to rid the flavor of that after taste. But now I cannot get back to the good taste. I believe HS or the outlet I buy it from (to remain unnamed) has changed something in the formula. Does anyone else have any such problem?

Get your HS from BuyHangsen.com. It's 100% fresh and origial hangsen and not that re-bottled stuff. There in the USA and shipping is lightening fast.

 

[krewblink]

Flavor is fading badly after about 2 1/2 weeks....Wondering what was your guys input on this.... is it the sweetener that is causing it to fade the flavor? i have about 22% mixes total flavoring with about 2% surclose sweetener? should i get rid of the sweetener?