DIY Production is a Go!

[IDJoel]

I made the shake and vape as reccomended

If you did this one:

FA-Uk's own blend; FA Cornish Cream Tea
FA Cornish Cream Tea = FA CREAM 35%, FA STRAWBERRY 35%, FA COOKIE 30%.

as you seem to indicate here:

I just made it to the origional spec and alas yet again for me it didnt smell or taste of much at all.

Then you did not, could not have, made "as recommended." A 35%+35%+30%=100% flavor mix is creating a "flavor base." A flavor base (ONLY the flavor concentrates combined to meet predetermined ratios), is kind of the "other side of the coin" to what an unflavored base (the PG, VG, and nicotine concentrate combined to meet predetermined ratios). FlavourArt describes this in their directions:

(Source: FlavourArts UK recipes page)
Following these directions; you would have done something along the lines of:
In a 10mL bottle, using the 1mL syringe, combine:
0.35mL Cream
0.35mL Strawberry
0.30mL Cookie
AND STOP.
Cap and shake. This will result in a 1mL batch of a new flavor concentrate or "flavor base."

The FlavourArt directions go on to say:

(Source: FlavourArts UK recipes page)
Because this was all done on the same day; I think I cam safely say you did NOT make as recommended.

The intent of this method, is to allow you to use small measured amounts of this new concentrate blend, at various percentages, to see what overall flavor percentage (that 5-10% range @Lydia had mentioned).
That means, after 3-5 days, you would then try:
5% Flavor Blend Concentrate (flavor base)
plus
95% Unflavored Base

So, if I wanted to make a small 2mL tester, it would be:
0.10mL flavor base
1.90mL unflavored base
which will result in a 2mL finished 5% dilution.

other possible trials might be:

0.20mL flavor base
1.80mL unflavored base
would result in 2mL 10% dilution.

0.15mL flavor base
1.85mL unflavored base
would result in 2mL 7.5% dilution

Or; in case you might be a "super taster" (someone with really sensitive taste buds):
0.05mL flavor base
1.95mL unflavored base
would result in 2mL 2.5% dilution

If I were to make all 5 of these 2mL testers I would have only used 0.5mL of my original 1mL concentrate blend. Fairly economical; yes?

You obviously didn't age it any, and I have no idea what you actually mixed, as you seem to be rather resistant to disclosing. As a result; I can't offer anything useful.

If you rather, you can mix all ingredients (flavors, PG, VG, nic) at once, and at their correct finished percentages (1.75%. 1.75%, and 1.5% respectively; for 5% dilution), and even vape right after shaking. This will give you a baseline of what it tastes like. However, this does not negate the need for the flavors to age. Only time, and additional tasting, will tell you when it is done aging. Then, and only then, should you consider adjusting the result; anything else is inviting frustration. Sound familiar?



As for the flavor contamination: when a plastic jar of red curry paste, or minced garlic (both very strong flavors), is placed next to a plastic cup of yogurt in the fridge; does the yogurt end up tasting like curry or garlic? Mine never has; even after weeks. This is because of the plastic used. I have had multitudes of flavors (including FA-Joy) in a sealed box for more than a year, and have never experienced what you are describing. Sorry, based only on my own personal experience, I just can't buy it.

I really wished you had let me walk off into the sunset

My only desire is your success. I respect you as an adult, and fellow human being; you have every right to follow your journey however you feel is best. I will leave you to it with my best wishes.

 

[mcclintock]

Yeah Gratch is right, it can't be that complicated. Something's wrong. Are any of the flavorings pink or dark, which would indicate heat damage sometimes? Is there any chance they're not flavorings, but eliquids? FA does make them.

 

[Gratch]

I just called FA uk and they are going to refund me for this kit. So that is good. They said to send everything back in the box but do i really need to put used syringes and used pet bottles in? Back to square one for me Thanks again to everyone who replied to this thread.

 

[Gratch]

Should i put the used bottles and syringes back into the box to return? I assume they would just throw these away so is there any point in doing that? (never returned anything before so no idea)

 

[Trigster]

Should i put the used bottles and syringes back into the box to return? I assume they would just throw these away so is there any point in doing that? (never returned anything before so no idea)

Hey Gratch...An empty of their flavor YES...Syringes NO...An empty of your mix NO...But I might be tempted to send them one of your test bottles with the mix you made ???...Just my opinion...I hate returning stuff

The most important thing "I" would do is re order from a trusted vendor and get a couple of different Flavor Manufactures in the mix as well...TFA / FW / CAP...And I'd skip the "Additives"...Just A Thought...Trig

 

[Trigster]

Hey Gratch...An empty of their flavor YES...Syringes NO...An empty of your mix NO...But I might be tempted to send them one of your test bottles with the mix you made ???...Just my opinion...I hate returning stuff

The most important thing "I" would do is re order from a trusted vendor and get a couple of different Flavor Manufactures in the mix as well...TFA / FW / CAP...And I'd skip the "Additives"...Just A Thought...Trig

Hey...Sorry...But if those were their syringes YES...Because I think you got a "Kit" right...Anything "THEY SENT"...Send it back...Trig

 

[Trigster]

Gratch, if you and several others can't taste a bit of strawberry with a total of 6% FA strawberry, that's a bit strange. And 4% Lime distilled is a lot and yr eyes should get wide open when tasting just after mixing. Combined that everything tastes of FA Joy (wich is some sort of caramelly/sweeener/Ethyl Maltol) I get more and more puzzled. I hope FA can help you with the problem.

I have here some complete blends of flavours of FA; FA Monsoon and FA Cocoon. FA Mosoon is berry/raspberry with a nice background. 4-5% gives me a lot of taste. FA Cocoon is apple with caramel and I use 4% with 0,5% extra FA Butterscotch. Gives also a very nice flavour to vape. Both I sweeten a bit with my own made very pure/high quality Stevia Sweetener in PG.

I should be honoured and pleased if you let me send you some of these flavours and some of my sweetener. And I just don't accept any payment, because it's my joy and ease of mind if you just let me do it. I believe you live in the UK and it can be there by post in a few days. I can also add my own nice blend of FA Passionfruit/coconut, etc for a tropical vape if you like that. And/or a very nice Pina Colada mix, also with FA-flavours; it's my main vape. PM me only yr name/adress and it get's in 1-2 days in the post to you.

Lydia...You Are An Angel...

 

[stols001]

Send back everything, yes. They are giving you a refund, after all. They will discard the syringes but if you are worried about contamination anyway, I wouldn't reuse anything. Not sure if you did this or not, but hopefully you washed/rinsed all pieces of mixing equipment to the best of your ability before using it. I would do that with my e-DIY supplies whether they smelled *off* or what. So that may be a reason for the contamination if you *didn't*, although I still think something could have happened to that shipment, e-juice and flavoring don't normally leak during shipping has been my experience *so far*.

I too am a bit bemused but whatever the outcome here (and to @JoelID, I completely acknowledge that you probably have WAY more experience mixing than I do) the takeaway with your new flavors would be a) start small and be PATIENT. Get some storebought as well as different flavors so you don't feel "pressured" to make this work right away. Start with small batches and let them steep (even without tasting) because you really do have to let flavors steep to work best. Start with 1 or 2 single flavors. Keep your work areas clean, make sure all equipment is very clean before and after each mix or change in ingredient-- like after your PG, in however many bottles, VG, etc.

I really would let it steep 24 hours at LEAST before tasting it and seeing how it is.

It may well have been your flavorings, but take note of what everyone has said in this thread (and take it seriously) so that you have more success with your new flavors. I don't think what JoelID was saying was to bum you out, Gratch, but rather to point out some other possible issues that you SHOULD address when flavoring in the future.

I am really hopeful that your next batch of flavorings will work out better, just keep an eye out for contaminant issues in case you are inadvertently causing "transfer" by not cleaning everything really thoroughly, as if you can "smell" the joy on your old flavor bottles, that does mean that they weren't washed sufficiently, possibly. But if your taster kit got into weird pressure or heat/cold I still think it's possible that one bottle had leakage and all were somehow affected.

That said, the advice on this thread has been good and I'm not going to go out on a limb and say anything other than use the advice you were given in your fresh batch.

I know you hate the idea, but I would take Lydia up on her offer, if only for the fact that it will help/give another opinion of what is going on with your flavors (though you did have 2 other ppl try it) and to be able to try a FA mix or DIY juice that is "finished" and you get an idea of what a "finished" DIY juice should taste like.

I haven't gotten shipments where anything was leaking though, so I can't say definitively either way. I'm glad you got resolution for this matter and I'm only saying keep in mind what others have said who are very experienced for your future mixes, y'know?

anna

 

[Trigster]

..."and to be able to try a FA mix or DIY juice that is "finished" and you get an idea of what a "finished" DIY juice should taste like."

Gratch...I couldn't agree more...Trig

 

[Gratch]

Thanks again folks, I will be sending everything i got back in the morning, I got some store fluids today to see me by. I will deffo take all advice here onboard when i start diy again. Start slow, keep it simple, steep, dont slap pandas; all of it. I will have to start DIY again at some point because i now have 230ml of 72mg nicotine in my freezer.
So i will chill n vape my b&m and carefully plan my next forray. I figure all i need now is a few syringes some pg/vg and just a few simple flavours or mixes and go from there. But no rush. Measure twice cut once. Thanks again you lovely people you have been fantastic!

DIY Production is a STOP! (for now) heh.

 

[jambi]

Hi Gratch,

I'd send back everything that came in the box. If you're doing an exchange/refund that's the normal protocol. I'm sure they'll want to see everything.

I suppose it's possible the leaking Joy had an effect on the rest of the contents, but I've personally never experienced this, and I've dealt with some major leakage issues in shipments. The worst was a shipment from Nude Nicotine, where a 30 ml bottle of Honey Tobacco, a very pungent, highly concentrated NET, had leaked 2/3ds of its contents due to a missing phenolic cone (the little gasket thing in the cap). It was packed in a ziplock with 5 other vials of flavoring that were basically swimming in Honey Tobacco, and the ziplock hadn't done a perfect job of containing the spill, so the whole box reeked heavily of the stuff. However, after washing off the other sealed bottles they were fine. I can't say the same for my hands, which reeked of the stuff for two days, but the sealed glass vials were fine, and I'm sure of this because it turns out I absolutely HATE honey tobacco, and I can detect the stuff in minuscule amounts. I even had to throw my tester bottle away after I tested it, as I could detect the lingering odor of it and it made me cringe. I've only had to do that with one other tester, INW Rhubarb.

(Un)fortunately, Nude Nicotine was kind enough to send me a 120 ml replacement of Honey Tobacco to make up for the leaker, which I will no doubt have for the rest of my life. Why oh why couldn't it have been the Melon Madness that leaked??!!

So, update on the Berry Bash thing I came up with earlier. I went way too high on the Raspberry. I trashed that tester and restarted...
3% Blackcurrant
3% Strawberry
0.5 % Raspberry

We'll see what it's like after a week. If it's balanced my next step will be to cream it up.

Good luck in your future DIY endeavors!

jambi

 

[jambi]

If you did this one:

as you seem to indicate here:

Then you did not, could not have, made "as recommended." A 35%+35%+30%=100% flavor mix is creating a "flavor base." A flavor base (ONLY the flavor concentrates combined to meet predetermined ratios), is kind of the "other side of the coin" to what an unflavored base (the PG, VG, and nicotine concentrate combined to meet predetermined ratios). FlavourArt describes this in their directions:
View attachment 679145
(Source: FlavourArts UK recipes page)
Following these directions; you would have done something along the lines of:
In a 10mL bottle, using the 1mL syringe, combine:
0.35mL Cream
0.35mL Strawberry
0.30mL Cookie
AND STOP.
Cap and shake. This will result in a 1mL batch of a new flavor concentrate or "flavor base."...

This is logical. I don't do anything like pre-steep flavor bases, because that would impose yet another delay upon my chronically impatient persona, but I did change my mixing order awhile back to somewhat account for this idea. I used to do nic/pg/vg/flavors, but I've since changed to Flavors/PG[shake]/VG/Nic because it makes sense that blending the flavors and PG together first might potentially speed up the "molecular bonding" (or whatever) process...

...though, I haven't really noticed a difference.

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

This is logical. I don't do anything like pre-steep flavor bases, because that would impose yet another delay upon my chronically impatient persona, but I did change my mixing order awhile back to somewhat account for this idea. I used to do nic/pg/vg/flavors, but I've since changed to Flavors/PG[shake]/VG/Nic because it makes sense that blending the flavors and PG together first might potentially speed up the "molecular bonding" (or whatever) process...

...though, I haven't really noticed a difference.

Yeah, I have tried reversing the order in which I put in the ingredients also. No difference. I have even tried using one of those hand held mixers to mix it all and the only thing different was it left a foamy layer on top of the mix. I didn't like that(altho it did not change the taste or performance of the vape) so I stopped doing that also.

 

[jambi]

Yeah, I have tried reversing the order in which I put in the ingredients also. No difference. I have even tried using one of those hand held mixers to mix it all and the only thing different was it left a foamy layer on top of the mix. I didn't like that(altho it did not change the taste or performance of the vape) so I stopped doing that also.

I used the little mixer too, reminded me of making Cappuccino.

Father Time is such a snail! He absolutely refuses to race no matter how I prod him! I'm convinced he enjoys torturing my restless Soul!

 

[JCinFLA]

From post #119:

I really do beleive that this flavour has contaminated all the other flavours. It did not leak, it is just so overpowering to say the least.

Some may not have noticed the above. There was NO leakage of the Joy!

I 100% agree with everything @IDJoel said in his last 2 posts. His experience with DIY and knowledge concerning it is undeniable.

 

[jambi]

From post #119:



Some may not have noticed the above. There was NO leakage of the Joy!

I 100% agree with everything @IDJoel said in his last 2 posts. His experience with DIY and knowledge concerning it is undeniable.

Don't mind me, I'm just rambling.

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

From post #119:



Some may not have noticed the above. There was NO leakage of the Joy!

Yeah, caught that........smh.

 

[IDJoel]

This is logical. I don't do anything like pre-steep flavor bases, because that would impose yet another delay upon my chronically impatient persona, but I did change my mixing order awhile back to somewhat account for this idea. I used to do nic/pg/vg/flavors, but I've since changed to Flavors/PG[shake]/VG/Nic because it makes sense that blending the flavors and PG together first might potentially speed up the "molecular bonding" (or whatever) process...

...though, I haven't really noticed a difference.

I am in a very similar boat. I too mix all ingredients from the start; beginning with flavors, then PG, a quick mix, VG-based nic, another quick mix, VG, and a final thorough mix. Then, if it is a new recipe (or a practiced recipe that is using new (to me) ingredient(s)), I will do an immediate 1mL vape test to get a baseline flavor profile. I then write down all my notes; including mixing notes, tasting notes, and updating inventories.

I only mentioned the flavor base method, because Gratch had said he used the original version, which happened to be the flavor base.

I 100% agree with everything @IDJoel said in his last 2 posts. His experience with DIY and knowledge concerning it is undeniable.

Thank you for your much too kind words; and I do mean "MUCH!" I do have 2+ years of doing nothing but DIY, but sadly; time + practice (=experience?) DOES NOT always = wisdom. I may be somewhat of a veteran mixer, but I feel like there is still MUCH I don't know, and MUCH I could do better. I waste a lot of time, I make a lot of mistakes, and I make a lot of mediocre efforts. And, when I see the results of so many other mixers here (far too many to name), I feel like that "special" child that gets to wear his bicycle helmet all day. <sign>

After two years, I still go slow, mix small, and write EVERYTHING down. I pay extra attention to my failures, and if I can learn something from them, I consider it a successful mixing experience. As long as I am a bit better of a mixer this time, than last time, I feel like I am moving in the right direction.

All I know for certain, is what is working best for me; at this time. It is the communal wisdom, here on ECF, that has taught me. That, and a LOT of trial and error, and finding what works best for me. That is why I have always like the description of DIY as a "journey," as that is what I think of it as; we learn, we apply, we fail and succeed, we change... keeping what works for ourselves and tossing what doesn't, and we grow. I doubt that I will ever be "satisfied" with my DIY, but is sure has been one heck of a journey! (And I ain't reached the end yet!)

 

[Lydia]

Lydia...You Are An Angel...

Oh Trigster, I can be a helpfull and compassionated person (and I bet/see you can be öne). But that's something you learn to value if you experience some hard times/things yourself in life. It gives you wisdom and depth. The course of life is sometimes hard but needed to become a better person.
And I'm really not always such an angel. Some fear me, because I can be very nasty if I sense deceit and bad intend (or is it "intent"?). Hide and run if I'm nasty.

 

[Trigster]

Oh Trigster, I can be a helpfull and compassionated person (and I bet/see you can be öne). But that's something you learn to value if you experience some hard times/things yourself in life. It gives you wisdom and depth. The course of life is sometimes hard but needed to become a better person.
And I'm really not always such an angel. Some fear me, because I can be very nasty if I sense deceit and bad intend (or is it "intent"?). Hide and run if I'm nasty.

Wisdom & Depth...I gain a little more each and every day and am thankful for every bit of it...Trig