Doc says I'm "still a smoker"

[SunnyMoon]

Other than this particular pet-peeve, my doc is generally really good. Every checkup they ask the same few questions that pop up on the screen: smoking, drinking, drugs etc. Next time I go I should be able to tell him I'm nic free.

Thanks for all your thoughts, suggestions and support

 

[Rictic]

Funny timing of this post! I am in the process of hiring myself a new doctor. My last one moved to another state, so that kind of sucked for me. I really liked my former doctor. So I have met a couple, I am still in the process of deciding. Here is a closely paraphrased version of one of the conversations with one of the prospective MDs. The first question I ask him is...

Edd: How do you feel about e-cigarettes?
Doctor: They are dangerous and should not be used. They are no better than standard cigarettes.
Edd: Where did you get that information form?
Doctor: (clearly shocked at my question) The FDA and my 12 years of medical training. You want to argue with a doctor?

Now at this point, I am pretty sure that I am done with this doctor. But I want to make sure.

Edd: I did not realize I was arguing. It seemed to me I was asking a question as to where you got information from. You know, to learn something new.
Doctor: Sometimes a patient just needs to do what their doctor says. Why are you debating this with me? Do you think you are smarter than a doctor?

Now I am certain I am done with him.

Edd: Certainly I am smarter than some, not as smart as others. You think it's smart to get all of your information on a subject from the FDA? For that matter, to get all of your information on any subject solely from one source?
Doctor: (standing up, clearly irritated by my 'uppity' attitude, he is as done with me as I am with him) I think I don't need to explain myself to you. Patients like you are the problem with practicing medicine today.
Edd: (standing up as well) I agree, you do not need to explain anything. I won't work with a doctor who feels he does not need to answer my questions.
Doctor: (fuming, glaring) You will be looking for a doctor for a long time, Mr. XXXXXX
Edd: Perhaps, but there are worse alternatives, sir.

The consultation took less than sixty seconds. Okay, so in addition to it being an entertaining story, the lesson is to choose a doctor who suits you. You do not have to put up with the doctor you have now. You do not have to confront the doctor like I did, you can just hire a new one.

Sounds like that doctor needs to get laid. Maybe his "My sex stops cancer, I'm a doctor don't argue" routine hasn't worked in a while for some reason.

 

[UncleChuck]

If a doctor told me I was still a smoker because I vape I'd say "I find your lack of faith disturbing" followed by a faux-vaderchoke. I'd walk out of the room demanding my medical records within 3 business days or else I'd bring the Death Star into orbit above the doctor's office pending further developments.

Just kidding I wouldn't do that... well maybe.. depends how silly I was feeling. But I'd definitely be ...... off. You aren't a smoker if you chew tobacco, nor are you a smoker if you vape. You are still a nicotine consumer (for now at least) so if they want to make a big deal about that, at least they are making a big deal about something that's actually true.

But you aren't a smoker because you vape, anyone that says otherwise obviously has absolutely no knowledge whatsoever of scientific principles. Smoking implies combustion, you aren't combusting water when you boil it to make pasta.

Combustion changes the chemical nature of whatever is being burned. Turning something from a liquid into a vapor doesn't (or doesn't have to) change the nature of the liquid. Boil water, it's still just water, but in vapor form. Boil juice, it's still just juice in vapor form.

Vape a bunch of juice and let the vapor condense back into a liquid. It will be nearly identical to the juice before being vaporized. Now burn something, condense the smoke down, it will be nothing like the material you started with.

There are very real, obvious, specific differences between burning/combustion and simply turning something into vapor. It's not a gray area, it's not up for discussion or a matter of opinion. vaping is NOT smoking, period, this is an undeniable fact.

 

[Scoop224]

You doctor is an idiot. A big pharma stooge. A shill. A tool. Fire him immediately!

 

[Clearo-Mizer]

I agree with most everyone else...your doc is a dud...he wants the credit for the script for chantix...but before he gives it to you he will probably want to put you on lexapro for 6 months to level out your emotions....My doctor was elated to know I was Vaping and told me his brother (who is also a doctor ) is doing the same...

 

[UncleChuck]

This thread kind of delves into another subject, the whole idea that many people today feel that they need SOMEONE to tell them what is OK for them to do. They don't want to be adults, they want to be children and have a parental figure guide them through all of life's choices.

These are the people that say vaping isn't safe because the FDA hasn't said that it is, or it's dangerous because a doctor said it is. Or some horribly faulted study makes a claim and it's instantly fact because 'they said so'

It seems like as a whole most vapers are people that like to take responsibility for their own lives. We don't need the FDA to say it's better than smoking, our experiences tell us what we need to know. We don't need a doctor to tell us our lung function has improved, we know it has.

We are blessed with incredible brains that can think on their own. Unfortunately many people today are wasting that gift, they don't want to think,they want to be told. That's why I'm always proud of the vaping community, we seem to have very few of those people in our ranks. Hopefully it stays that way!

 

[Ken_A]

I cant wait for my next lung function test. Yes I know I shouldn't vape with COPD, but its a harm reduction excercise for me. I know it will be improved.

actually, I posted this in another thread, but will repost the story here. the owner of the nearest shop told me that his mom started Vaping, and her COPD went away. She lowered her Nic to 0 and it came back. When she consulted her doctor, he told her to up the nic to 12 again because outside of tobacco, Nicotine causes the bronchial passages to open up.

 

[D4rk50ul]

Fired. So he would rather give you anti depressants, nicotine, inhalers that cause people to go insane, and other medications than just listen to what you say or research?

IMO a doctor who doesn't keep up with the latest advancements in his field or that patients might be using is lazy and needs to step down or get to reading.

Sent from my Nexus 4

 

[Drael]

If you smoker, your a smoker. If you don't, your not. Pretty simple.

Your a nicotine user, and a vaper, not a smoker.

If he's putting "smoker" on your medical records, instead of nicotine user, or vaper, that is misleading the facts, which could be important one day. You don't want that like of confusion or laziness on your medical records.

My doctor is happy with me having given up smoking. She doesnt think of me as a smoker medically, but merely a nicotine user. She is happy to dialogue about things, and when she knows her stuff I listen, and when i know something she listens to me.

Its called mutual respect. I expect nothing less from any doctor, that I ever have, and if I dont like their attitude, of find them arrogant, or there skills wanting, I go somewhere else.

There are always good doctors, and theres plenty of bad ones too. The golden thing is finding one that is not arrogant, listens and is an experienced and talented diagnostician. I have one of those in both towns I stay in.

Its like having a good hairdresser, or a good lawyer, or a good counseller. Anything less than the right fit, just isnt worth doing - and medicine is more important than a good haircut too.

 

[drumtrip]

I expressed some concern with my doctor over my breathing recently (been vaping 2+ years), mostly due to allergies stemming from the rugs in our new home. He suggested I quit the occasional cigar as well as vaping. I also had a lung test during that visit and it showed 100% lung function with no issues, so it came down to the original diagnosis of allergies. We switched up my allergy medication and no problems since.

<Not Medical Advice>I think for me, a mixture of high PV juices can cause some breathing discomfort and lung agitation, but as far as actual lung function goes, vaping has done wonders for my lungs. I have a slight allergy to PG so I tend to mix my juices at 60-40 or 50-50 PG/VG.

We still don't know the long term effects but judging by the numbers I am miles ahead of where I was. My doctor was really trying to advice me to remove any agitates from my routine rather than condemning vaping outright.</Not Medical Advice>

 

[jamesd1628]

Doctors are idiots. No offense to anyone out there.

 

[Stoked!]

I used to be hospitalized a couple times every year due to asthma. I quit analogs 3 years ago and now only have minor asthma with my seasonal allergies.

All of my Drs are thrilled.

I would definitely dump that Dr but try to educate them at the same time. Tell them they are way behind the research & need to brush up so they don't proceed to increase their patients potential chance at harm reduction.

All of my Drs code my status as "still using NRT but smoke free".

 

[Janet H]

My doc has me listed as "former smoker". That seems fair because we really don't know what residual problems years of smoking has left on our bodies and may have a bearing on a diagnosis. I don't consider myself a smoker now because I don't inhale any burning material. I inhale vapor. So, in truth, I am a former smoker.

Someone recently posted on another thread that they vaped 0-6 nic, but had blood work done that showed 0 nic. Interesting. Years ago an insurance agent said I'd get non-smoker rates if after a year they took a mouth swab to be able to tell. Should have asked at the time if it was just to see if nicotine was present. Don't know how it works these days because I list myself as a non-smoker. I'd think that medical records designating me as a former smoker would be helpful.

As far as doctors go, if I went to one who I didn't feel was listening to me I'd immediately find another doctor. I also require that my doctor answer my questions. I didn't go to medical school so I assume they know more than me so my questions are often open ended - what do I need to know about this diagnosis or what questions should I be asking or what what do you think about... etc. It's worked well for me in the past. In the end you have to be a participant in your own healthcare and follow your gut.

 

[Uncle Willie]

Combustion changes the chemical nature of whatever is being burned. Turning something from a liquid into a vapor doesn't (or doesn't have to) change the nature of the liquid. Boil water, it's still just water, but in vapor form. Boil juice, it's still just juice in vapor form.

Vape a bunch of juice and let the vapor condense back into a liquid. It will be nearly identical to the juice before being vaporized. Now burn something, condense the smoke down, it will be nothing like the material you started with.

There are very real, obvious, specific differences between burning/combustion and simply turning something into vapor. It's not a gray area, it's not up for discussion or a matter of opinion. Vaping is NOT smoking, period, this is an undeniable fact.

Disagree .. ever took a carto apart after using it a few days .. ?? Filler can and does burn .. heating element does carmalize e-liquid .. the nature of the mixture does come into play and if you were to condense exhaled vapor there would be a change from it's original composition ..

However, if you have actual links to the science behind these statements, I'd be very interested in reading them .. that would be links to e-cig vapor condensing into liquid again .. because I can't find anything supporting that ..

 

[drobbyb]

There are good points brought up here. There are many things which we do not know. What we do know is that inhaling combusted tobacco is very bad for you.

The studies conducted by Ruyan on the chemicals contained in the vapor reveal safe levels of the chemicals contained therin. There are some chemicals that make me raise an eyebrow but those chemicals are below the threshold of what is considered safe and are far below what is contained in tobacco smoke.

Those cartridges IIRC contained a filler material.

It is true that if you burn the filler material you do get smoke and it does irritate your lungs and mucus membranes. However it is also possible to misuse any other consumer product and get undesirable results. Ever burn a teflon pan? That smoke can poison you yet they didn't make that illegal. They only issued a warning. I assume the same could apply here.

 

[jfalbanese]

time to find another doctor

 

[DC2]

I would have asked him if he's ever seen smoke coming out of an e cig. Like someone said, doctors contradict, mis diagnose, and mis prescribe on a daily basis. Your opinion is right, his isn't.

All you have to do is watch "Monsters Inside Us" to see that diagnosis is a crapshoot.
Yes, parasitic invasion is on the edge of the diagnostic art, but see it for what it really means.

The most obvious answer is the first choice that a doctor will usually go with.
I will admit that is the most economical and possibly most logical way to proceed.

But if that diagnosis doesn't work then more expensive actions come next.

And if that doesn't work, then experts are called in.
If you're lucky, have money or strong insurance, and ADVOCATE for yourself you might get quality medical help.

If you just sit back and let them do whatever, you'll get whatever.
And nobody will care if you don't.

And yes, I have a lot of experience in this area, and I know how it all works.

 

[DC2]

I like to believe that the vast majority of health care pros are caring, concerned folks ..

I'd really like to believe that too, but my experience tells me otherwise.
And that is so very unfortunate.

My father went through a long, drawn-out situation with his girlfriend in a convalescent home.
And if it wasn't for his advocacy for her, they would have screwed her up real good.


Now my father is in the same situation, and I am his advocate.
And if it wasn't for me, they would have screwed him up real good as well.

I am the one that noticed his low blood pressure.
How the hell they couldn't see it escapes me to this day.

And I am the one that figured out he needed his Zyprexa dosage lowered.
It took a bit of research on my part, which apparently his army of doctors had not done.

He has stopped fainting since we made that change.
And hopefully he is no longer in danger of breaking any more bones.

If you don't pay attention, and learn, nobody will do it for you.
And that often includes your doctors, who as a group should perhaps not be held in such high regard.

 

[DC2]

It still boils down to prejudice. If one digs deep enough or opens their eyes, they see it starts with opportunitsts. They influence. When it becomes a moral good to have a closed mind there's always gonna be some sort of corruption in the drivers seat. Now its smoking/vaping... next it will be weight/food (already begun really) and then it will be caffeine... next. Well, its never ending. Its always going to be something... that's the way of humanity. There is no amount of logic that can speak to a closed mind nor prejudice of any kind. The best one can do is recognize what you're dealing with. If it looks like an open mind (not so open the brains fall out)... you have a fighting chance. If it looks like a closed one... move on... you don't have a chance.

Liking this post was not enough.

I had to quote it, and give it this...

 

[MsOceanCity]

All of my doctors(and there are a LOT!---general practitioner, gastroenterologist, endocrinologist, gynocologist, vascular surgeon, cardiologist, dermatologist, allergist and an alternative medicine doc), not one of them thinks I'm still a smoker! They have varying levels of familiarity with PV's, but even the doc with the least amount of knowledge is absolutely THRILLED that I have stopped smoking! I make no bones about the fact that I still use nicotine and have no plans on changing that