Just a question going out to Smoktech Bolt users, Does the Bolt have a resettable hot spring?
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Does the Smoktech Bolt have a hot spring?
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No actually I meant resettable. I had heard that Smoktech was using hot springs in the Bolt, and what i had heard was that they were resettable, which to me means they pop back after they cool. I may be mistaken, but I don't believe they all are resettable.
How long have you had your Bolt Rader? Maybe it's a recent development.
And thanks for the reply.
How long have you had your Bolt Rader? Maybe it's a recent development.
And thanks for the reply.
Not sure on the exact mechanism of hot springs Rader, but they definitely will snap back to a fully retracted position if they see a temperature high enough.I'm guessing the magic happens through some sort of alloy.
It's stainless steel. - It's not a hot spring. The bolt is, however, vented.
Mentionable about SS Springs like that one: They will collapse... just not as fast as one that is designed to collapse.
I've never heard of a hot spring that will put itself back in to the right shape when it cools.
Mentionable about SS Springs like that one: They will collapse... just not as fast as one that is designed to collapse.
I've never heard of a hot spring that will put itself back in to the right shape when it cools.
Hi Six, thanks for your input on this. Any idea on where to get better quality hot springs that would fit the Bolt? Also, a plain SS spring won't reset after collapse will it? The springs I was told about auto reset. Possibly a new development (smok putting them in Bolts that is)?
Time for a new keyboard. My space bar is dying. Grrrrrrr!
Time for a new keyboard. My space bar is dying. Grrrrrrr!
I bought a couple of these a long time ago for my 18650 tubes. I've also seen them on other sites.
And no. An SS spring won't return to its normal shape... but you could stretch it back out. I wouldn't really want to use one that has been compromised by a thermal event, but they will stretch back out.
I've never heard of a hot spring that will return to its normal shape by itself after collapsing. I'd be interested in seeing something like that (I deal with some electronics professionally that would really benefit from such a device).
EDIT:
this is pretty poor photography (camera phone and poor lighting - maybe I can get a better pic with a real camera another time)... but maybe you'll be able to make out some of the details. These are SS springs from rough stacks. The one on the right was collapsed a couple of weeks ago when I did something dumb and caused a dead short. The one on the left is normal and undamaged. I think you'll be able to tell from the (bad) photo that the spring is not just mostly flattened, but also warped and discolored. I could stretch it back out if I wanted to, but I won't.
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Here you go Six. This is collapsable, resettable hot spring from the awesome new BAM mod. I've been told, that a new version of the Bolt has something similar, though I doubt it's as heavy duty.
I absolutely do NOT want a hot spring that returns back to normal when cool in my e-cig. No way. If it gets that hot, I want it to STAY OFF until the problem is solved and checked out. Then it gets replaced.
I guess we need another term... "Fail safe and stay safe"
There may be other applications for it, but not for my e-cigs.
I guess we need another term... "Fail safe and stay safe"
There may be other applications for it, but not for my e-cigs.
I don't really understand your take on that Atty. Not trying to criticize your opinion, but I most certainly wouldn't want something that would require me to go out and buy a replacement spring because I accidentally screwed a shorted atty on that I should have thrown out but didn't. The spring in the Bam at least is a heavy duty device that's designed to trip when it gets hot, then several minutes later (I'm guessing) after it's cooled down, snap back. And do that over and over again without fail. If it kept your battery from going thermal once, it should do that a second time if required.
I wouldn't equate it to an auto resetting circuit breaker in your house, because you don't have thousands of dollars of equipment connected to it.
And it's worlds better than the ordinary springs that have been in all our mods until recently.
I wouldn't equate it to an auto resetting circuit breaker in your house, because you don't have thousands of dollars of equipment connected to it.
And it's worlds better than the ordinary springs that have been in all our mods until recently.
Well, fair enough. However, the "heat spring" reacts to heat. If the battery got that hot, I don't want it to disconnect, then cool, then connect and get hot, then cool, then connect and get hot, then cool.... Better to disconnect and stay that way given a choice of the two.
Let's say it's a button shorted positive to ground, not a sorted atty/carto. If that spring goes off, given a choice of the two, I'd rather have it stay off until I could check everything out, or have the vendor do it.
That's why fuses fail and stay off. It's also why breakers don't reset themselves. And... given the option, I'd rather have the spring not reset itself either.
I'm not criticizing particular mods/APVs here. There are tons of things that have batteries and springs and don't fail-off with some "hot spring" kind of thing. It's a young industry. We learn. But since there have been a few issues in the past...I'd take the safest possible approach going forward. My opinion of what that is could be wrong, it has happened before. But that's my current take on it.
The real question is "how effective are hot springs anyway?" and "Should it be a replaceable fuse instead?".
As a side note: Remember that a battery's outside casing is the ground (at least a strip is), the center is the +. So if the wrapper is damaged
facepalm: user) and that's where the short is..... It starts to get more complicated...... a fuse on the ground side won't help and neither will a spring. (That's not to say you can't use either or both...assuming the battery wrapper is working properly...they are good things.)
Let's say it's a button shorted positive to ground, not a sorted atty/carto. If that spring goes off, given a choice of the two, I'd rather have it stay off until I could check everything out, or have the vendor do it.
That's why fuses fail and stay off. It's also why breakers don't reset themselves. And... given the option, I'd rather have the spring not reset itself either.
I'm not criticizing particular mods/APVs here. There are tons of things that have batteries and springs and don't fail-off with some "hot spring" kind of thing. It's a young industry. We learn. But since there have been a few issues in the past...I'd take the safest possible approach going forward. My opinion of what that is could be wrong, it has happened before. But that's my current take on it.
The real question is "how effective are hot springs anyway?" and "Should it be a replaceable fuse instead?".
As a side note: Remember that a battery's outside casing is the ground (at least a strip is), the center is the +. So if the wrapper is damaged
facepalm: user) and that's where the short is..... It starts to get more complicated...... a fuse on the ground side won't help and neither will a spring. (That's not to say you can't use either or both...assuming the battery wrapper is working properly...they are good things.)
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I do note that a spring allows the battery to pull back from the + side even if the "shell strip" is shorted to the metal case (if gravity/friction/expansion due to heat allows it.)
The term "hot spring" comes from the way the springs are made. Hot spring wire is wound very tightly compressed when the spring is made at a high temperature. Then it is stretched to the proper length. This gives the spring "memory" so that if it is heated it will return to the way it was originally wound. This is completely different than a spring collapsing because it became hot.
And WOW! I sure don't want the spring re-expanding if the short still exists! The spring shrinks in an effort to prevent the battery from going into thermal runaway, why would you want to give it a second chance?
And WOW! I sure don't want the spring re-expanding if the short still exists! The spring shrinks in an effort to prevent the battery from going into thermal runaway, why would you want to give it a second chance?
Yes, and the whole problem with it is ... if the battery got that hot... it's a problem because if the battery gets hot enough, you can't stop the reaction...electrical connection or not. And even if it didn't get hot enough to "go thermal" the heat damages the battery. So... how hot is hot? When does the spring react? How much area has to be touching the battery? Has anyone really tested/experienced this? What happened?
Needs smarter people than me to do a lot of testing.... particularly with different battery chemistries and devices and short scenarios. All my batteries have a protection circuit. IDK if they trip due to heat though. Someone else may know. I only use protected batteries for my applications. I expect it to "trip" BEFORE the battery gets hot. But who knows. I'm no expert. It's all gets to be a bit of a catch-22.
I don't use "pipe bomb" mods/APVs. Yet. Box mods rule.
Needs smarter people than me to do a lot of testing.... particularly with different battery chemistries and devices and short scenarios. All my batteries have a protection circuit. IDK if they trip due to heat though. Someone else may know. I only use protected batteries for my applications. I expect it to "trip" BEFORE the battery gets hot. But who knows. I'm no expert. It's all gets to be a bit of a catch-22.
I don't use "pipe bomb" mods/APVs. Yet. Box mods rule.
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The hot spring is not suppose to respond to just the temperature of the battery, it is also suppose to respond to amperage draw. So there is a lot more to it than just being a hot spring. But attypops is right, a spring that responds at 500 degrees won't do much good when a Li-Ion goes thermal at 300 degrees.
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Hmmm... OK. So the excessive amperage generates heat IN THE SPRING before the battery overheats? Good thing if so. And assuming the current is flowing exclusively through the spring. Good to know tj, thx.
To me here is the point. If you fire your device and it sees a short, and the spring retracts and your device stops firing, you are given a heads up that something's wrong. Also, remember the device we're talking about is the Smoktech Bolt which has (I believe) an aluminum body. If your battery gets hot enough to collapse the spring, you ARE going to feel it. The body of the device is going to be hot to the touch. Now you've been given TWO warnings that your device has an issue- it won't fire (and if you shake it, your battery is flopping around loose), and it is really hot. That would be enough forme to discontinue use until the problem was sorted out.
As to directly answer your question as to why you would want to to reset after what I assume would be several minutes, is that the alternative is you have to purchase another spring and replace it. How many people are really going to keep an extra spring laying around? 10%? Everyone else has a device they probably rely on daily, out of commission until they can, find, purchase, get shipped to them, and replace the spring. Also, a resettable spring is certainly designed to function properly and safely more than once. If it prevented thermal runaway the first time, why wouldn't it prevent it a second time if for some reason someone continued to try and fire a device that had just suddenly gotten almost too hot to touch, and had suddenly stopped firing?
At the end of the day, I would prefer a resettable spring for convenience. And it's light years in safety ahead of a tradition spring that will simply maintain contact through a thermal event. And to be clear, I don't think it should be the only line of defense. In the case of a mechanical mod, it should also be vented, and only protected or safe chemistry batteries that are being properly maintained should be used.
Just my opinion.
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Are you saying TJ, that most or all hot springs presently available are designed to retract at 500 degrees? Not trying to ba a smart *%@, just asking. Seems to me that if they were designed for this application, they would be designed to retract around 200 degrees or maybe less. In reality, 200 degrees is beyond the point you'd still be holding a device made out of any type of metal. I'm pretty sureI've seen a video of someone intentionally popping one in something,but not sure. I'll have to look around.
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