Donate to Dr Farsalinos' new study

Status
Not open for further replies.

Mr.Mann

ECF Guru
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Dec 30, 2011
17,401
40,572
46
All over the place
again never thought of the anonymous "mystery shopper" aspect. I get now why donations of e-liquid itself may not be appropriate for the study.

And there is also an issue, I think, with a big donation coming from a big vendor as seeming somehow righteous. I don't think a big check means anything other than a big check. But, I do think all vendors in-the-know should have monetarily donated something (especially the big vendors making big bank). What I donated amounted to what I generally pay for a 30 mL. All vendors can at least part with that.
 

Talyon

Vape 4 Life
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Feb 21, 2013
3,176
3,975
Toronto
I wonder if this test well cover caramel flavorings as I've just recently learned that they contain chemicals that are not good, not all but many.

Apparently in California manufacturers are required to put something on labels if the amounts over 29 or something like that. Pepsi is no good according to this but Coke is below the standard. I also believe the FDA is in on this caramel flavoring thing.

This info I got from the Dr.OZ show, no I don't usually watch him, but was lazy today when his show came on as I was rebuilding a few coils lol.

Sorry I don't have links to any of this, I'm always on iPad.

If my info is incorrect i apologize. But I do believe this is part of what is being looked into in our liquids, as caramel flavor is used in many liquids.

Now back to Vapeing my Caramel Kicker by AVE. yummy.
 

rsdntbplr

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jan 15, 2014
169
197
Northamptonshire, England, UK
Donated what I could afford - not much but every little helps, eh?

It's good to see that the extra money raised is going to allow Dr Farsalinos to actually test the vapour produced as well as the eliquid in it's "wet form". I'm slightly worried that this study is going to throw up some things that could be detrimental to the Vaping community. Indeed, the positives from the study could be endless but I don't really want to know that something I've already been Vaping for a long time is indeed harmful.

Scary yet very intriguing and most likely a positive thing for the struggle of Vapers vs Politics.
 

AgentAnia

Resting In Peace
ECF Veteran
May 22, 2013
3,739
9,455
Orbiting Sirius B
Donated what I could afford - not much but every little helps, eh?

It's good to see that the extra money raised is going to allow Dr Farsalinos to actually test the vapour produced as well as the eliquid in it's "wet form". I'm slightly worried that this study is going to throw up some things that could be detrimental to the Vaping community. Indeed, the positives from the study could be endless but I don't really want to know that something I've already been Vaping for a long time is indeed harmful.

Scary yet very intriguing and most likely a positive thing for the struggle of Vapers vs Politics.

Personally, I don't see anything coming out of this study as detrimental to vapers. If certain flavorings are shown to be risky, it's good to know so we can avoid them.

In a sense, we are all guinea pigs (I'd use "lab rats," but, well.... no) in the vaping experience. Since most researchers are too busy trying to disparage ecigs to actually look at the benefits, we the vapers are doing it for them.

PS: Contributions thru indiegogo now top $31,000! Way to go, vapers!!!
 

Mohamed

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Aug 15, 2013
876
504
USA
The donation total is now at around $42,000 (or higher) via all routes ($31,000 via Indiegogo, $11,000+ via direct bank transfers).

Therefore we are removing the global Notice asking for donations for this project.

Why? My understanding was any additional money would be used to test more liquids? I personally would love for this study to come out with little or no negatives to as many liquids as possible. Something we could use as ammo for all the bans that seem to be coming out.
 

rolygate

Vaping Master
Supporting Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Sep 24, 2009
8,354
12,402
ECF Towers
Yes, I understand.

But ECF cannot continue to widely advertise for donations, when total donations equal double the target requested. We would be open to justifiable criticism.

I agree with you that the project is a valuable one; and if it is expanded to cover more options then it is equally valuable; and even if an amount is donated that exceeds any possible use for this project then it is still going to a worthy recipient who will assign the funds to a purpose that will benefit honest and impartial research into ecigs (and thus will benefit all of us).

However, unless Dr Farsalinos personally addresses ECF Members on the issue of over-subscribed funds, then I cannot in all conscience continue to push very strongly for donations (which is what publishing a global Notice on ECF does). The target has been reached, and doubled, and that is job done as far as we are concerned. Dr F can come here and ask for more if he wishes, and he is welcome to do so.

We have a duty to deal honestly with Members.

There will be more campaigns for more projects in the future, especially now it has been seen how successful this one has been. For example we would certainly be open to supporting other honest researchers who might carry out practical work on ecig projects such as Polosa, Bullen, Laugesen, Phillips, and others.

For example, at some point a researcher will conduct the first clinical trial of nicotine* in order to confirm or dispel some of the myths, and ECF would like to assist that project if it ever materialised. If this were to be carried out by a researcher known to us for impartiality then we would offer support.
* There is no such thing as a published clinical trial of pure nicotine administered to never-smokers in order to evaluate any potential for dependence (studies involving smokers or ex-smokers are completely irrelevant); therefore there is no evidence that nicotine (by itself) is addictive. This single issue probably causes us more problems than anything else. There have been several studies that did this for other reasons, and all reported that nicotine administered to never-smokers has no dependence-forming effect. These studies cannot be cited as evidence that nicotine is not 'addictive' because they addressed other issues such as the benefit for treating certain conditions or diseases.

There is a lot more still to be done.
 

Jake6731

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Nov 6, 2013
123
417
Plano,TX,USA
Posted by Dr. Farsalino's on the Fund raising site Announcement:

As you may have seen, we have reached our funding goal. We thank everyone for their support. We are not waiting for the campaign to end; we are already collecting samples from all over the world, which will be sent for testing. We will increase the number of samples tested. Additionally, the extra funding allows us to test some samples on vapor, which will give us crucial information. Finally, in case we have enough funds by the end of the crowdfunding campaign, we are going to proceed with another protocol (from the many we have already designed but were unable to perform due to lack of funding).

Therefore...

I encourage you to continue sharing and discussing about this crowdfunding campaign to the social media and websites. All funds will be used for research (for this and other projects). During 2013 we published 7 studies in peer-review journals and we presented more in international medical conferences. We believe our research had a significant impact in tobacco harm reduction and e-cigarettes field. We want to continue in this way during 2014. The more funds we get, the more research we are going to perform.
 

Racehorse

ECF Guru
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jul 12, 2012
11,230
28,272
USA midwest
If it's coming from anonymous buyer the vendor couldn't give a doctored up "safe" sample.

Without a laboratory of their own, or a completed study on every and all problematic components in eliquid.... how exactly would any eliquid vendor be able to *doctor up* anything? ;)

I doubt any eliquid mixer would purposely utilize an unsafe component in their eliquid. The problem is, that most of them (and us) don't know what those substances ARE.

This is a great idea for a study. Nothing is more important than the safety of the eliquids we are inhaling.

I only hope that the liquids that test troublesome are kept confidential (in terms of vendor name) since the most important determination will turn out to be that they are using a flavoring, or extraction, that is problematic, which will enable them to stop using it.

Since most eliquid mixers are dependent on their flavoring sources (unless they make some of their own flavorings like Ahlusions does) I don't think we can fault them in any way.

I doubt most of them know what is, and what isn't, safe in their eliquid. I assume that is the REASON for the study in the first place.

We all want to know.

But yes, despite that it's sort of a moot point, consumer based funding at least makes it more obvious that the study is not being industry-funded in total.
 

Don Robertson

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Nov 28, 2013
537
837
Rio Rancho, New Mexico
I see this is essentially 'closed' as far as active solicitations, however, I am 'open' as always (ask 'nursie'). I certainly hope I am not violating any 'code of ethics' and per usual intend no hate, harm, injury or malice in any form. I realize this wonderfully authored 'piece' may never even be read and I don't give a hoot! It's good 'finger exercise' and I'm told it is "mentally stimulating" - the only kind I appreciate in decade number nine.

Doctor Farsalinos research has already brought forth a comment that made me chuckle (it hit me immediately in a GOOD way - and I am NOT belittling the author) -- "...I don't really want to know that something I've already been Vaping for a long time is indeed harmful." OK. OK. Maybe it's not THAT humorous to "ya'll" ..... but, I immediately thought, "You were a SMOKER and you're worried that there is a slim chance "...something you have been vaping ...... is indeed harmful"? It is a valid concern - I simply found it was humorous at the same instant. I imagine we all might have (and deny) deep down in the tars embedded in our crud-filled lungs and brain cells a little worry about "the juice"..... but nonetheless ..... once again ..... I 'chuckled'.

Yea, I'm old and semi-senile and sometimes it only takes the crushing of an ant to make me feel 'tough' again - so humor me - keep reading or don't - just find the tiny bit of humor in that line - it's there I guarantee (for what THAT'S worth!).:D

THE SERIOUS PART:

Being a newcomer to e-liquid consumption I know of Doctor Farsalinos only through the many references to his work. Personally I consider him a 'pioneer' while I suspect the opposition might well consider him biased - this does not matter in the least. Doctor Farsalinos research publication WILL BE subject to the same "BLIND peer review" as are publications on every aspect of medical research published in Libertas Academica. Cancer research to brain surgery to those funny little hairs we men cultivate in our ears and with some not on their head - they are all "peer reviewed"; the absolute best way of validation and unfortunately potentially subject to disapproval, opposition, rejection and the like; though this is how it is intended.

The media as well as a multitude of governmental agencies may attempt to discredit work citing "corporate funding". The funding allowing this particular study and others which may follow should draw no more scrutiny than those made possible by FEDERAL FUNDS (FDA) and donations others who are typically accepted as being "impartial". As always - it depends on which side one stands as to how welcome ANY information may be; those who claim otherwise are simply paying homage to those who have the power and ability to further their personal careers and/or goals. Colleges, Universities, Medical Research facilities - the list is endless - all generally follow some form of internal and Federally mandated Conflict of Interest Policy. Forms, forms and more forms are endlessly filed. Doctor Farsalinos discloses where every dollar originates to the best of his knowledge; however, as always, someone will question his findings - but to invalidate them they must be able to offer valid proof AND they must discredit each of his peers who reviewed said findings.

Doctor Farsalinos is not unlike the forensic toxicologist who seeks to identify the known as well as the elusive 'unknown'. Screening for known unknown drugs, chemicals, toxins, and the like is fairly straightforward while the 'unknown' is tedious and challenging requiring patience and dedication. Results do not come quickly nor easily - sometimes they never do.

A short closing (DEFINE "SHORT" Donnie!) from an old man who sat at many a "we need money" table. More money will always be needed. There is no amount that constitutes "sufficient". Research provides answers. Answers will always be disputed. Disputes can eventually be settled via more research. More money will always be needed. There is no amount that constitutes "sufficient". Some folks are not certain IF they should donate at all. It is a personal decision. If you 'believe' DONATE NOW. DONATE LATER. To repeat myself once again - More money will always be needed. There is no amount that constitutes "sufficient". Research provides answers. Answers will always be disputed. Disputes can eventually be settled via more research. It's simple.

Do not look at the "RAISED $$ OF" and see the "GOAL" has been met. Another challenge is just around the proverbial corner and I guarantee there is someone waiting who will attempt to discredit Doctor Farsalinos. Should his study happen to indicate these 'gadgets' we all claim are so wonderful, so safe, so innovative are being 'fed' by unscrupulous vendors poisoning us one 'vape' instead of 'puff' at a time - they will turn on him as quickly as any animal imaginable. I do not believe it will happen - but as always, "what if?".

Oh yes. I 'donated'. And an unsolicited "Thank You" to 'CaughtTheVapors' in California for your contribution as well.;)

From The Master Control Tower at Senility Central Old Man Don (On a GOOD day!):rickroll:
 
Last edited:

AgentAnia

Resting In Peace
ECF Veteran
May 22, 2013
3,739
9,455
Orbiting Sirius B
Hey Old Man Don! (I can call you that cause I'm huffing doggedly along right behind you in the decade count... :)) I thoroughly enjoyed your post; wish I could give you more than one like!

I do hope more people will contribute to Dr. F. I have complete faith in him in all respects. If some funds aren't needed for the present study, they'll be used for future research, and we can't lose.

I see two outcomes of the flavor study: The public one, and the vapers' one. I'm sure every attempt will be made by the fanatics to discredit whatever results Dr. F comes up with.* That's their goal in life. Though I'm sure enough creditable parties will see (and publicize) the benefits that it will make a difference overall to our cause. What I'm *really* interested in is the vapers' outcome: If the study should find some flavors that pose specific risks, it's to our benefit to be aware of them. If the study should find no risks, we also benefit from knowing that.

*I am eagerly awaiting ANTZ reactions to the fact that the study is crowdfunded. :evil chuckle:
 

Mr.Mann

ECF Guru
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Dec 30, 2011
17,401
40,572
46
All over the place
I am sure others have gotten this email too, but I would like to post the most recent announcement:

"We would like to announce that the first samples have already arrived at the laboratory and the analysis will start on Monday February 8. We have collected more than 150 samples from all over the world.

As we have already mentioned, the extra funds will be used for a second research experiment, in which we will assess the delivery of nicotine from the liquid to the vapor of commonly used atomizers available in the market.

Thank you for your support, please continue to share this campaign for the next few days."


I am looking forward to the following study as much as this one!
 

Mohamed

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Aug 15, 2013
876
504
USA
I am sure others have gotten this email too, but I would like to post the most recent announcement:

"We would like to announce that the first samples have already arrived at the laboratory and the analysis will start on Monday February 8. We have collected more than 150 samples from all over the world.

As we have already mentioned, the extra funds will be used for a second research experiment, in which we will assess the delivery of nicotine from the liquid to the vapor of commonly used atomizers available in the market.

Thank you for your support, please continue to share this campaign for the next few days."


I am looking forward to the following study as much as this one!

Thanks for the update looking forward to hearing the final results. I'm subscribed to this thread so hope someone will post the final results when they come out here.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users who are viewing this thread