Don't believe all you read

[Uncle Willie]

500 years ago people believed that the earth was the center of the universe, opinion, now to believe that would be flying in the face of hard facts supported by data.

Say it isn't so ..

 

[ethnobot]

It's actually not big tobacco that is promoting a campaign to discredit vaping. There long time product is dieing a slow death and they have much bigger issues than vaping. The campaign is largely funded by Big Pharm. They fund all the groups (ASH, ALA, AHA, etc) that are vehement against vaping as well as strongly influence the FDA. They have a billion dollar failed NRT business to protect and vaping is the main threat to that business.

That's a point I'd not considered. Mind you I hadn't considered the anti-vaping lobby so far as I've only had one or two situations in which I couldn't vape since I started last month. Mind you one of those was staying with my wife in a hospital waiting room and my response was to use an NRT product so it fits.

Seems to me that, given the huge taxes on cigarettes, government would have more to lose from people actually skipping the analogs than big tobacco would. Heck, if I were in the big tobacco business, I'd be working out ways to make superior e-cigs and capitalize on that market. I'd work with existing name recognition of my popular brands and make Marlboro, Virginia Slims and Newport branded e-cigs.

Makes me think 'til my brain hurts this one? Would the benefits of much more widespread replacement of smoking with vaping outweigh the inevitable negative association and higher taxation that would surely follow for us (being me & those like me for whom vaping provides the only realistic alternative to smoking, at least for the immediate future)? I'm trying to move away from vaping gear that's too reminiscent of analogs in any case so cig-branded PVs wouldn't float my boat. That means from a selfish point of view I definitely hope it doesn't happen. If I could see the thing objectively would it end up being positive? If it was objectively positive could I be unselfish enough to approve. I just don't know yet.

@KatieCat – you're just scarin' me now girl. I can't listen any more or I'll end up overthinking everything and everybody and getting paranoid LOL.

That's as far as I've read in this thread & I have chores to do so I comment further just now. I'll try & reply again later.

Peace, ethnobot

 

[ethnobot]

Just a reminder that it's the Internet folks .. you're going to have misinformation, half truths and what not because that's what some people like to do .. it's like saying wikipedia is the Gospel ..

There will always be a faction of the population that enjoys stirring the pot, so to speak .. I find that many of them live in their parents basement at 45, subsisting off bags of Nacho Doritos and Mountain Dew .. they are not smart enough to invent viruses, so between bouts of "World of Warcraft" they troll .. it's the nature of the beast ..

Well said....though it brought tears to my eye's cause I craked up laughing at the Dorito's and Mt.Dew part tooooooo funny

I genuinely like Mountain Dew - If this wasn't the internet I might be starting to feel unnecessarily persecuted right now. I must do some positive affirmations "I'm not 45, I live in an old town house, I eat a fairly balanced diet, I'm not 45, I... "

*sniff*

 

[Uncle Willie]

I genuinely like Mountain Dew - If this wasn't the internet I might be starting to feel unnecessarily persecuted right now. I must do some positive affirmations "I'm not 45, I live in an old town house, I eat a fairly balanced diet, I'm not 45, I... "

*sniff*

You know, this brings to mind something .. I liked Mountain Dew too .. until my kidneys started hurting and my Doctor said "Quit the Dew" .. and I was cured ..

Proving, many many substances can be harmful to some ..

But, I never lived in my parents basement ..

 

[DC2]

People will listen to someone with thousands of posts, and roll their eyes at anyone with less than 10.

From personal experience I can say that not nearly enough people look at post count when considering the opinions expressed.

I'm not trying to say that a newbie opinion is of no value.
I'm just saying that people who have started using e-cigs in the last month can't have a valid opinion of good juice.

And there are a lot of other subjects that this rule applies to.

 

[DC2]

It always important to separate opinion from fact. I have no problems with opinions that are different than mine. But if someone wants to change my opinion I will listen but need facts to do so. Knowledge comes from replacing opinions with facts. I am a skeptic of all things but facts change what I believe. 500 years ago people believed that the earth was the center of the universe, opinion, now to believe that would be flying in the face of hard facts supported by data.

I could only like this once.
But I wanted to like it more.

Joltin' Joe and who?

 

[DC2]

Makes me think 'til my brain hurts this one? Would the benefits of much more widespread replacement of smoking with vaping outweigh the inevitable negative association and higher taxation that would surely follow for us (being me & those like me for whom vaping provides the only realistic alternative to smoking, at least for the immediate future)? I'm trying to move away from vaping gear that's too reminiscent of analogs in any case so cig-branded PVs wouldn't float my boat. That means from a selfish point of view I definitely hope it doesn't happen. If I could see the thing objectively would it end up being positive? If it was objectively positive could I be unselfish enough to approve. I just don't know yet.

Please spend some time in the Legislative News and Campaigning subforums here.
We could always use more people who want to examine these issues with a critical mind.

 

[Upaut]

There is the fact that there is no governing body regulating what goes into ejuice. Does leave one paranoid for a "Jungle" type situation where cheaper dilutants, dubious purity, and even additives that are highly dangerous, but produce a very desired effect (better vapor production, harder throat hit, etc).

Keep in mind this is true of any unregulated industry. Ever have bread cut with bone meal? Used to be common in this country (which is why the FDA was established, in part), and can still be found elsewhere. And bone meal is one of the nicer stretchers used... Sawdust, bleach, NaOH, anything white and tasteless. Heck, remember a few years back when Cumberland farms were caught diluting their milk with water?

Not that I have ever found "one" company that has done this so far. But it "could" happen. Maybe it has. Maybe some of those that write these horrible experiences are from bad batches.

And it wouldn't have to be an adulterant. Why, simple nicotine could be the problem. Its very toxic, and if you get the dilution wrong... That would be bad. Mistake a 38mg solution for an 16mg solution? Even worse, get an undiluted solution added to a batch that should of been diluted to 1/10? A simple manufacturing mistake could lead to a world of hurt.

This is why I am actually for the FDA regulating my ejuice. Requiring a label like all consumables. Testing certified companies for lead and mercury. Maybe doing some studies on safety. A good 20 year study to see the long term effects. Maybe a five year from a pool of initial non-smokers. Etc. You can't rush data. Heck, I still like reading 60 year and still going studies on aspirin.

 

[NicLiq]

After you do this for awhile, you don't worry about the juice anymore, or you start making your own and find out how simple it really is.

Nearly every ingredient in juice is also in cigarettes. Your body knows the difference between a 36 mg and an 18 mg mistake.

Does the FDA make sure everyone washes their hands before preparing your food at a restaurant? That's the kind of thing I worry about when it comes to making juice.

 

[Uncle Willie]

Excellent point ..

 

[hubseven]

Mickey Mantle

 

[llvickie]

Ditto! Keep away FDA

 

[DC2]

Mickey Mantle

That's what I thought but wasn't sure.

Cool picture.