we all know the only clones to be wary of are them evil ones made in Brazil. Gregory Peck and Lawrence Olivier taught me that, and why would they lie?
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Need help from former MFS (MyFreedomSmokes) customers
Has any found a supplier or company that has tobacco e-juice like or very similar to MFS Turbosmog, Tall Paul, or Red Luck?
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Don't blame China.
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So according to you, "adult priorities" translates to living paycheck, to paycheck?
... That is ignorance at it's finest. #counterfeitintelligence
While I agree with you that not everything made in China is crap, and that retailers and consumers are to blame oftentimes for the poor quality cheap items imported from China, I believe your "Russian" example is precisely what many people here is upset about. "The Russian" is a stolen design, everybody knows it is nothing but a kayfun clone, and I wouldn't be surprised if its made in the same factory as the Tobecco or Ehpro, just subject to a slightly better quality control and a huge profit too, because at $ 100 its not much better than the $ 25 clone. So yes I can not applaud when someone from China or anywhere else steals someone else's successful idea (because crappy unsuccessful designs are not cloned) and starts making at someone else's expense. Designing, researching, engineering, manufacturing and marketing a new product from scratch involves a lot of expenses that the original inventor must add to the end cost of the product to recover the initial investment, cloners don't have to pay for research or risk investing thousand of dollars in something that may or not sell...
"I believe your "Russian" example is precisely what many people here is upset about. "The Russian" is a stolen design, everybody knows it is nothing but a kayfun clone,"
From what I've read here and on other sites, as well as mentions made on youtube reviews; isn't there a more complicated history between kayfun and the russian? I have heard they were partners and co-inventors of the kayfun who simply fell out. Do you have any more insight into this issue?9
Needless to say , I do see a kayfun in my future for my back-up apv. Otherwise I pretty much agree with everything you said.
From what I've read here and on other sites, as well as mentions made on youtube reviews; isn't there a more complicated history between kayfun and the russian? I have heard they were partners and co-inventors of the kayfun who simply fell out. Do you have any more insight into this issue?9
Needless to say , I do see a kayfun in my future for my back-up apv. Otherwise I pretty much agree with everything you said.
Nice strawman you got there. Shame if anything were to happen to it...
But since we are discussing e-cigarette equipment and not heart valves, my EHPro KFL+ clone is every bit as good as my real one; as a matter of fact, I defy anyone to tell the difference. Svoe is lucky there was a clone available, otherwise I wouldn't have ponied up the cash for a real one.
The Russian is not a stolen design, which is why by and large, it is not regarded as, or placed into the same category as your run of the mill clones.
The Russian was born as a result of a fall out between partners, who together created the Kayfun. Partner A moved forward with the Kayfun as it was originally designed, and Partner B went off on his own, and produced, what many regard as, a better version of the Kayfun, which is now known as the Russian.
IMO, this scenario does not qualify as theft, or counterfeiting ...
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Questioning the quality of products, (especially ecigs), when one lives in the USA is a rhetorical argument. Manufacturing like farming has been on the decline in the USA for years.(Decline in terms of volume not quality.) Since most of the ecig hardware come from China, with bits and pieces made here and other places, this is to criticize the quality that exists as a whole. The quality of ecigs has improved from an infancy stage, and the products are of good quality and very fair pricing. This is a tribute to Chinese manufacturing. The original inventor, a man who I believe owns Runyan eig, recently sold his patents and ecig business to a Europe tobacco company. He has received almost nothing from his original patents, even tho they seem quite valid. Runyan was I believe not allowed to sell the ecig in this country originally.
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Good reply Nikkita, and you are exactly correct. The Russian is a business relationship that ended with 2 products based on the same original design the final result. No clones to see here. JaRod is very confused about reality and appears to be just parroting what he heard someone say without verifying the actual facts. All too common an occurrence on the ECF these days. Good to hear at least some understand reality and bother to do some simple research.
And to take it a bit further, a nemesis clone is not really a clone. Since there are no patents or trademarks on the Nemesis, there are no clones. People can argue all they want about how they feel morally about a work being copied, but from a legal standpoint the copy is every bit as original as the Nemesis from Atmomixani. Not a popular notion to many that are philosophically invested in the rights of the first designer (who didn't take legal precautions with their work), but there it is. And talking to some on here about legalities instead of philosophical beliefs is like conversing with a wall.
... ;-)
So according to you, "adult priorities" translates to living paycheck, to paycheck?
Seems to be for those who complain about the price of quality vape gear...
A lot of Chinese made stuff in this industry is at par. Even many of the mech clones are nearly identical to the authentic versions. Maybe a few more machine marks are minimal defects (which can happen with anything on an assembly line, trust me I worked in numerous factories here in the US and its no different). Take a authentic Maraxus to its clone its hard to tell the difference. Compare the Hcigar Kayfun to the real one, the quality is nearly identical.
Very true .. I have a Hcigar Taifun and Kayfun, both are 1:1 to a T, and there is absolutely nothing cheap about either of them.
I just got my first one after a few other clones that were hit or miss for me, either being chrome played brass or the Ehpro lite whistles loudly. This one I just received is just ridiculously awesome that it is hard to tell the authentic to this one apart. Mine came with a few machine markings on the channel deck and that was it. And compared to a few other 3.1 clones, the full valve is actually usable. I gotta buy a few more now
Who doesn't love FastTech?
Your right not all of China's products are poorly manufactured, the seven22 mod and the russian rba is some decent examples. But those products initally started for China by China.- HOWEVER I've personally spent alot of time in China (well 2-3 months during a military project (I'm a civilian, just with a gov't job)), and had more than enough time to get to know their culture. And ask any Chinese dissent human on earth (or anyone that's spent time in China), and they will tell you "They see Americans as a big'ol gullible money cow". I'm not saying this to be facetious, they are an amazing culture, but they sell us cheaply made (by their standards even) items because us Americans (and almost everyone else they sell too) can't pass up the HUGE currency exchange.
~Relatively their dollar (yuan) is sextupled when they make a sale in U.S. dollars. You'd figure that if they were multiplying their profits by 6 the products we buy over here would be the cream of the crop, but NOPE! It's so customary to buy from China for americans that they most often will charge what they pay in yuan directly to dollars.
1 U.S. Dollar = 6 Chinese dollars and some change (5 yuan will still buy them a "Big Mac" for the value of a Yuan, it's just like our dollar to us.)
For example: an RDA that they pay 60 yuan in labor/materials to make (including the amount of profit they're entitled too of course) will sadly be sold for 60 American dollars, meaning the profit they'd make would be 300 yuan! That same RDA sold to a Chinese citizen would be priced for 60 yuan, and you'd think they would divide the price by at least 4 in USD (still making a killing in profit) to "translate" the price to be at least semi-fair to the American consumer, but they really only reduce the price to the maximum we'd pay for it. Don't get me wrong, it still comes out being quite a bargain relative to USD prices from American manufacturers, but BY NO MEANS, is China trying to get us the best deal.
I still love China though, even though they could essentially charge us more, they share the exchange rate so-as not to "abuse it". But don't misunderstand that they are making a KILLING off of American's, I seriously wouldn't doubt if most FastTech prices could be cut IN HALF, and still make them a decent profit. But still, Who can complain? Gotta love that exchange rate
.The concept of Chinese products being cheap though is a little unfair to say, because as the OP stated, sometimes it's a U.S. vendor, and they often know what materials it's made of and how "less than perfect" the manufacturing is. This all boils down to:
-Chinese manufacturing doesn't have nearly as many regulations to ensure a "top quality" product.
-Chinese manufacturers do not have to abide by copyright laws, or patent. (they did in the 80's however that was amended...for some reason, *cough* money)
-Regulations concerning metal are virtually non-existant (your not allowed to release anything radioactive or toxic like lead though, thank god
)-The huge demand for manufacturing positions causes quickly/poorly trained workers, along with unfairly lower pay. (This = mass produced items with less "care")
-Basically no competition for quality, U.S. manufacturers have to "make a name for themselves" with their quality, whereas Chinese products will ALWAYS be bought because they are just so darn cheap we cant pass them up!
Export.gov - China Standards and Regulations (Here's China's reg's)
~When I started vaping I bought largely from fast-tech (which is still awesome) and cloned items, because I thought they were just a better deal. However after only a few made in the U.S. products by American companies, I don' think I can bring myself to go back. I'm not saying American companies make the best of the best, because Philippian companies have impressed me too, but quality control is a VERY GOOD THING.
Until I started buying cheap imported vaping gear, I'd never had the dissapointment of an item utterly failing me, or more importantly LYING TO ME. After I bought a "100% solid copper mechanical mod" from Hong Kong and the copper flaking chipped off to show the ugliest aluminum someone found in a junkyard, I felt totally betrayed, I payed 40 for it which was no big deal, but I still had that "I've been tricked and taken for a fool" feeling, it shouldn't have bugged me that much but they essential stole from me, a highway robbery with no money-back guarantee (gotcha!). I mean come on COPPER ISN'T EVEN EXPENSIVE lol, and easier to machine for christs sake.
~I'm just too "accustomed" to getting what I expect from our fine craftsmen here in the U.S., who usually take pride in what they do, and have to earn their reputation by making a good product in our competitive market (which benefits us consumers). I can be sure that I won't be "tricked", and if I do, there's something I can do about it. I've never been tricked though, all American products I own (the Big Nasty, brass monkee RDA, Tatroe T1, and more) are flawless, and I don't have to be careful with them or expect failure, not to mention AMAZING, every single one of them.
- I have to say though, the only product I've ever been thoroughly happy with, and are my favorite carto-tanks I've ever seen or handled, are the Aspire Nautilus and ET-S by EIGate out of china. They are truly quality products, and you can see and feel that quality when you use them. Haven't failed me once! I hope no one takes offense to this for whatever reason, it's just real facts and thoughts I've had for a while.
No hate here, I love cheap Chinese products!
It was actually the engineer behind the design, the actual maker himself, the other partner was the business end (useless in other words
). You can tell that by how the Russian is much better as you said. Kind of an "f you for taking my design and selling it for more than it's worth".
Your perception of reality is rather convenient, and self serving, no?... I don't recall anyone here on this board "complaining" about the price of quality gear, as you put it.
I do find however, that many feel compelled, sometimes even forced to defend, and explain why they are unwilling to pay the price, that you seem to have a vested interest in making known that you have paid for your vape gear ... which obviously doubles as some part of your identity, and a large portion of your self esteem. You do understand that is quite clear to most don't you? But I guess that is the thing about self deception eh?
It is too bad that those who lack genuine intelligence, and an authentic sense of self esteem cannot buy these things as well. This World is cluttered with paper Kings, and their flammable Kingdoms. Basic creatures who redress their innate sense of inferiority with supposedly high quality goods ...
How much did your esteem and Kingdom cost? ..
I feel sorry for those of the nature, and type, which is bought, and sold. Nothing that can be bought, or sold lasts forever you know... just ask Lindsay Lohan. She has expensive taste too.
I do find a sort of perfection in your avatar though ... a Big Mod, and a small, basic creature. How fitting that the mod is bigger than the creature.
A good avatar should reflect, and express who we are. ;-)
To some extent I can relate to those who feel a sort of disdain when it comes to counterfeits, because I, admittedly harbor a profound disdain for counterfeit Humans ... true story.
Of course they don't want to heal the sick; if they healed the sick, they'd be out of a job. They just want to give the sick some 6 or 8 prescriptions that will alleviate *some* of the symptoms that brought them to the doc, but won't actually *fix* it, but *will* cause serious and lasting damage to their health, so they can be sure of future patronage. I'm sure they get kickbacks from BP for writing a quota of prescriptions a month, and by causing all that previously-unexperienced mayhem with a patient's health, they create a real windfall for their "practice" and for BP.
Andria
Why its the better half of the Kayfun
... basically the same device with a few more options, like an adjustable 510 connection. Google Russian 91% - Status
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