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Dramatic loss in taste and smell of EVERYTHING since vaping

Discussion in 'Health, Safety and Vaping' started by Amerglass, Dec 12, 2018.

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  1. Amerglass

    Amerglass Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 12, 2018
    Sark666 was the one who posted a thread under this same address - exactly 5 years ago.

    Well, I can say my vaping problems are exactly the same, identical.

    Saying that dry mouth, sore throat, loss of taste etc. all are result of quitting smoking are - incorrect. I would give 10% of that effect to quitting. While the majority of my (and many other vapers') problems evolved from - vaping.

    Quitting smoking for several times I never had any other sympthoms but some dizziness.

    Started vaping on the 4th January 2018. Perfect for a month. Went through vaper's tongue 3 times. Learned need to pull back a bit. Left aside my DTL devices and solely used MTL with half of e liquid consumption. After 6 months couldn't go on. Gums, tongue, the whole mouth were getting that strange sense of having drank something too hot. Vaping brought me to a constant poorer taste. My nose is dry all the time. Drink enough water. Exhale through my mouth.

    Well, today I am running on some 5 cigarettes along with vaping upto 6ml of e juice. The analogues seem to bring my taste back after 1-2 hours of chain vaping. My favourite juice has low flavour performance in the morning, shines after 3-4 hours without a vape and goes down to practically no flavour in the evening. As I do usually chain vape in the afteroon, after work.

    A year is enough. I want to change smth. With your help.

    Thought it was the nic. Although vaping only 3-6 mg max. Changed for a sole use of salted nicotine which improved things slightly.

    I cannot agree those are side effects of quitting as - I still smoke !!
    70% less than a year ago but still, can't get rid of it.

    Exactly the same what was happenning to Sark666 - as he was explaining it back in December 2013.
    The analogues help me to recover from vsping!!!! As crazy as it may seem. But true.

    Any way to get that Sark666 guy in contact? It would realy help me to see how he managed. Moderator??

    I am aware of vaping advantages but most of all - I enjoy vaping. And wish to quit smoking once and for all.

    But how ? Please help.
     
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
  2. bombastinator

    bombastinator ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 12, 2010
    MN USA
    You could be sensitive to something in the juice. The most common sensitivity is to PG, but there are others. Have you tried reduced PG juice? One cheap way to check is get a bottle of VG from your local drug store or health food store or Walmart or wherever (you want food grade) and try vaping some straight and see if it helps.
     
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  3. Amerglass

    Amerglass Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 12, 2018
    Thanks Bombastinor,
    agree, will go try vape pure VG for a day. The feeling however is VG is causing me get dry mouth althoug PG is bei g reported more H2O absorbent. Will report. Thanks.
     
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  4. bombastinator

    bombastinator ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 12, 2010
    MN USA
    Dry mouth is the way of vaping, sadly. On the bright side it forces you to stay hydrated. I keep a couple half gallon jugs of tap water in my fridge and refill one as it empties. I probably kill one a day.
     
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  5. BrotherBob

    BrotherBob ECF Guru ECF Veteran

    Dec 24, 2014
    Sunnyvale,CA,USA
    Probably not. Just checked Sark666 and he has not been seen since Nov 1, 2016.
    re: sark666
    Using the above, you can check his lasts posts about the problem.
    Was there any time that you were vaping, that you did not have the problem?
    Anyway, the problem may lie in these general categories:
    Physique --Physical or Mental
    Vape Equipment -- Proper use of, type.
    Chemicals ingested -- Flavors,PG/VG, Nic, frequency,
    Outside chemicals influencing. Cigarettes, other?
    If none of the forums suggestions work out, It would be worth the money to find a physician and seek professional knowledge. It may add decades to your life.
     
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  6. Amerglass

    Amerglass Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 12, 2018
    And, thanks extra Brother Bob for checking out user Sark666. All what you stated is 100% exact. I need to do my homework. The struggle is I enjoy my juices, my flavours and when it comes to pure VG I make 3 puffs and the vape is exchanged for the analogues. With no nic it also makes no sense. I know, I know, have to go through this testing.
    The harware is not a problem, all recognised brands, using mtl or dtl, 90% of my vaping below 20 Watts and nic 3-4. I did my researches on internet, spoke to some people over here but vaping here is not that developed.
    'Decades of my life' is the strong one and what else but - I agree. I've come to the point I dislike any analogues but smoke just to get nic.
    I am even on IQOS from time to time cause can't stand the smell.... Vape is the only thing that I enjoy but it kills my mouth, nose, taste, smell.
    You ask if that was the case from the beginning. No, it wasn't. When started to vape on DTL Vaporesso NRG tank it lasted 3 months without any tobacco. Started to combine it with MTL Nautilus 2. Bought 4 of those tanks, realy enjoyed them. Was vaping 4 ml per day. I did reset my brains on 2 repeated cases of vapers tongue but took it with patience and came across it shortly. All juices at that time were incredibly tasty. After 3 months increased the intake upto 6-8 ml/day. Was hydrated properly, did take care of my mouth hygiene but started to loose the taste for flavours. It was like fine until afternoon but evenings with higher intake brought me to the level of vaping without any sense for flavour. In the morning my mouth was a bit sore. Tried to vape more PG 50/50. It helped for a while. Exchanged the usual nic for the expensive Zaap salted nic which was great at the beginning, stimulating the flavours. After a few weeks it worked no more. As couldn't vape so much as would've wished needed to start analogues again. 2 per day and now upto 10 a day. Combined with some 6 ml of vape.

    The only helpful thing today is : after chain vaping for half an hour and 1 ml of juice I need an analogue to reset my mouth buds and revive a bit of taste and smell. A cigarette is not needed for nic craving but purely to reset my ability of taste. It is like my brains fight against vaping. Any change I do helps at the beginning but ends the same way, with the same problems after a while. I hate it.

    I d love to be able to solely vape. Should I push myself up to the limit of bleeding through my nose? I vape just this minute but my best DIY with 18% of flavour is like tasteless.
    Switch to my Fremax Pro with some extra cool menthol lime and it opens my nose, I enjoy 10 long lung hits with just 2 mg of nic. Perfect. But, within 15 mins the situation gets realy bad, my nose stuffed up, all senses lost. The way out: no vaping for 3-5 hours, only the analogues or IQOS.
    Bottom line, as most of people who experienced similar signs my vaping experience was fantastic at the beginning. After my vapers tongue as if my brain is rejecting the flavors of any vape. As if my brains was against vaping ! What the hell is my body saying? Quit vaping, go on smoking?? ..., have spent over 1k€ on my mods, tanks and a whole bunch of juices and flavors but can't find the way.... Developped a hobby by building my tanks, enjoying videos, loosing hours and hours in diy recipes. My wife says I am a vape addict now - not for nic but searching for a solution. Cause I'd like to quit smoking but simply can't.
    At the same time I read people stating to vape 20-30 mls per day with no problems... ..., that's enoying.

    Well, a long story of a year's time. That's why I was hoping to get in contact with Sark666 who realy is the 1st person who had the same symptoms..... And, he was correctly putting it: don't explain my problems started because of tobacco absence. I did quit smoking a few times, the longest period 1 month and never had any symtops. Well, mybe dry mouth, but just a bit. Quitting cigs and vaping causes enormous problems. Combining both takes me through the day somehow.

    Now, Thanks guys, I know it is my homework. Will try to stay on pure VG only for a day or two. After which some nic without any flavours. Let's see what that brings. I did actualy discover to be allergic to some flavors like strawberry, peanut, even nuts. For example, maltol as sweetener almost stopped my vaping. Mostly stay with various tobaccos, vanilla, custards, caramel, I love catalan, menthol. All being studied on E liquid recepies so there should be no fault by overpowering the flavours.

    If any ideas or suggestions in the meantime - I will be thankful.

    Have a good one...
     
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
  7. puffon

    puffon Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 18, 2014
    Florida
    I can only add, after smoking 45 years, it took a couple years to get real tastes back.
    This was after being totally cigarette free.
     
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  8. Amerglass

    Amerglass Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 12, 2018
    Thanks Puffon. This also help to know cause many people say in just a few weeks after quitting the senses were back 100%. Confusing how differently vaping influences us.
     
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  9. Amerglass

    Amerglass Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 12, 2018
    So, experiment results:
    - 2 days vaping pure VG 100%, 6 ml/day. No nic. (but 10 analogues during day 1) At the beginning nice, smooth. Started with Nautilus 2 MTL. Could feel the sweet taste of VG. As it was smooth jumped onto Freemax Pro mesh same 100%Vg on 60 watts. Killed the 4ml tank until evening. No taste anymore, but less feeling of being dried out. In the morning - almost the same story: no taste, mouth ad if burnt by hot soup.

    -2nd day switched to 30VG/70PG, 5% of easy melon flavour, no nic. After just 2 ml through my Nautilus started to feel that burnt sensation in my mouth. Interestingly: high PG made very strong flavour although used only 5%. VG simply kills the flavour. PG brings it out.

    If anything I found out the following:
    - it is not nicotine making my problems
    - higher VG might help a bit but realy not a big deal
    - vaping on along with cigs but will try to quit the analogues
    -will increase nic to 6-7mg for MTL and 4mg for DTL

    Will keep posting results. On my 'Newbie' thread there are 2 or 3 vapers' replies with similar difficulties, even after years without a smoke.

    Is being constantly exposed to one's mouth irritation healty??? I don't think so. I mean, we know about the burning tobacco health issues. Cancer and all. But there's not much of long term health indications from vaping.

    The problems faced during my 1 year's experience with vaping are so serious that I am close to quit vaping. Cause I did invest, investigate, diy and all. But with those implications I got from vaping either pure VG or PG I see no way out. I know I'll always be tempted to vape more... 8ml/day kills my mouth and the next day I have no solution but to - smoke again.
    I found myself in this damn circle, no good way out.
    What I also noticed: my vaping problems are much stronger during winter period. In the summer moving around the body pushes substances out more easily through sweating I suppose. So, maybe more excercising in the winter ?

    That is it for now folks. Thanks everyone for your support, advices and help. Am a bit dissappointed over vaping though...
     
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
  10. Zazie

    Zazie Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Nov 2, 2018
    Maine, USA
    Perhaps upping your nicotine level will make you vape less, which could ease some of your problems. Also, if you live in a cold climate, it's probably the drier air from central heating that's drying you out, not a lack of exercise. Maybe a humidifier would help?
     
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  11. Amerglass

    Amerglass Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 12, 2018
    Exactly Zazie, that's the next thing: humidifier.
    And, the nic already increased to 6mg. With 5-6 ml/day it would equal to a pack of smokes.
    My problem is I can't stop vaping. I do chain vaping. Not like craving for nic, it is more I enjoy the flavours. A smoke or 2 did it for me for an hour or two. Vaping's just around all the time.

    And I am not willing to suffer quitting by less vaping. Smoking is ritual as well, a stroong habit. So, vape is nice as I am playing with it in my hand the whole day long. Restricting from it down to only few puffs a day would make me nervous again and I'd soon have to light my cig.

    No way out, still. Not yet at least.
     
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
  12. stols001

    stols001 Mistress of the Dark Nicotinic Arts Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 30, 2017
    Tucson, AZ
    Try snus.

    Seriously. Try it, see how you do with it, it gives you the opposite of dry mouth and it has a lot more of the alkaloids in it, compared to vape liquids. I use snus at work because I don't want anyone to see me vape, period. It's a pediatric clinic and they are super anti it.

    It is satisfying enough that I have gone up to 12 hours without vaping. I prefer vaping, but perhaps you can rid yourself of your cigarette habit while you figure out what is UP which may require a doctor and a ton more experimentation. Maybe vaping LESS and no cigarettes will give you your taste back, lDK.

    Also vape unflavored, since you don't have taste and smell.

    ANna
     
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  13. Amerglass

    Amerglass Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 12, 2018
    Snus is tobacco again, right?
    Thanks but no go.

    I didn't loose my senses of taste and smell completely. It is ok during the day but gets lost once I am closer to 4ml of e-juice. Day after day I am afraid of loosing it completely. Once this happens all the vape devices and juices will go to trash.
     
  14. Amerglass

    Amerglass Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 12, 2018
    Now, this is a question I have no answer to:

    Not just for myself but I have read many beginners in vape experience the same: at the beginning the vape is fantastic: no burning feeling, no sinuses and nose problems, no dry mouth, let alone bleeding or vapers tongue.... and especially the strong taste for flavours is perfect. With time, usually between 2nd week and 2-3 months of vaping a certain % of users (I would say not less than 50%) people start to feel various consequences of vaping.

    Why only after such a period ? Is it the brains setting to smth new?

    I mean I really loved my vaping in the first several weeks, maybe a month. My favourite DIY juice at that time was simple coffee + creme brulee. Couldn't live without it. As the batch was gone needed to order more flavours. Repeated the same procedure, same percentages, same vg/pg and did it with some 20 samples. None of them worked.
    So, my conclusion is - it is not the quality of juice I couldn't reproduce. It is simply loss of taste for a certain flavouring.
    That's why everyone advises rotation of juices. But even after 6 months without that creme brulee juice I can't reproduce the feeling. Smth is different.

    If juice is the same on the same device - than my feelings for tasting juice changed. Fact.

    After reading a lot I found out the majority of vapers us like in costant search for the best flavour of a juice.
    That confirms the above: the majority if us users kind of loose taste for our best juice and therefore search for smth new.
    Similar goes with devices.

    A constant, never ending search for the Holy grail ??

    It puzzles me: once I discovered my best stake is medium with some salt and pepper and nothing else I'll stick to forever. Imagine the pain of daily search for better food...

    But, that's where the majority of us all are, well at least those who vape for pleasure of flavours....
     
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  15. Shadav

    Shadav Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 4, 2013
    Westfield, IN, USA
    Sinus infection can cause lack of smell and taste
    or really any sinus issues at all will cause issues with smelling/tasting
    whether you smoke, or vape or not at all....
    try taking some sinus meds for a while...
    if your nasal passage is clear (take a few deep breaths in and out) then try taking a decongestant, or if it's blocked but not runny nose (or running down your throat)
    if you have sinus drainage then try taking an antihistamine

    as for dry mouth, as stated that's just part of vaping, keep hydrated and maybe get a special mouth rinse that helps with dry mouth
    as funny and stupid as it sounds, brush your teeth, especially your tongue, roof of mouth....

    I've had allergy and sinus issues pretty much from the day I was born, and chronic sinus infections....to the point now I hardly ever have any sense of smell but that has nothing to do with vaping or smoking....if your sinus cavities are in an uproar it's going to affect your smell and of course if you can't smell properly, you can't taste properly.

    You really should speak to a doctor
     
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  16. Amerglass

    Amerglass Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 12, 2018
    Hi Shadaw,
    and thanks for this profound explanation. I understand you must ve gone through lots of researches with your sinuses infections, can't imagine living without sense of taste. But one must keep going on. As Freddie said 'the show must go on'...
    Now, my problems are not comparable, it is only sort of vaping indication if compared to your situation.
    The fun thing of vaping for me rwally is - flavour. Without it I wouldn't be vaping I suppose. Without it vaping in general would not be as popular as it is today.

    My sinuses are all right. No problems have I had ever despite smoking. No allergies or anything.

    Right now after 2 ml of e juice I can still vape and get the full flavour. After 4 ml it starts to fade. If I vape 5-6 ml my smell and taste are gone. But, in the morning I am ok again apart from dry mouth and nose. The night is recovery from vaping.

    I doubt doctors could help as I have had no problems until starting vaping. Any doctor will probably only say: quit vaping.

    But, that means - continue smoking...

    Thanks anyway.
     
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
  17. Sugar_and_Spice

    Sugar_and_Spice ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Sep 11, 2010
    between here and there
    Have you tried using each ingredient in vaping alone with minimal usage? What I mean is have you tried using different % of pg/vg? Lower flavoring? Have you tried buying pg/vg from a couple of different places to test? Nic also. You said you diy so you can control the amounts of each ingredient.

    If everything is going ok until you reach 4-5 ml vaped then common sense tells me you are overloading your membranes. Maybe it is too much vg? Or pg? Maybe too much flavoring. Believe it or not, there are times when less is more especially in the amount of flavoring used in making the juice. More flavoring does not equate to more taste. If you get too much flavoring in an ejuice then our bodies cannot taste it. Proven fact. As an experiment use or make an ejuice with less flavoring and give it time to steep(age). Each flavoring has its own steep time so letting it age a month is very common before using it.

    If you are buying commercial ejuice then its always going to have high flavoring because most of their target audience are people still smoking or just coming from cigarettes and taste buds have not had a chance to recover from years of smoking. Our tastes even change from time to time so go with it instead of insisting all is the same. Experiment with all aspects to find what it is that you are most sensitive to. Have patience with yourself as you go through each ingredient.

    Good luck and let us know how it goes.
     
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  18. Amerglass

    Amerglass Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 12, 2018
    Thanks S&S,

    yeah, I am one year in vaping, have done my homework. Have tried several pg, vg, nic producers.
    You haven't read all of my posting. As suggested by some people here went to experiment with pure VG, than 80% PG, no nic, no flavour. Wasn't much better. Then followed the recomendation to increase the nic. Am on 7 mg now. In the first 2 days I was catious with 4 ml of liqid/day. Now am back to 6 ml along with 10 analogues. Dual use. So, nothing's really changed. My sympthoms remain.
    Watching the last Busardo's show that Greek guy speaks of that dual use and recomends combing the regular device with a pod system with as much as 18-36 mg salted nic. In order to quit the smokes. Now, on 7 mg I can feel tickling my throat, can't imagine 18 mg, let alone 36mg. And, I currently already use the salted nic for less throat hit.
    Strange to say I feel like being more sensitive to vaping than the majority of vapers but on the other hand I can easily smoke 2 packs of the red heavy smokes with no problrm at all. So, how can I be sensitive to vape but am able to smoke a hell of poison?
     
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  19. Sugar_and_Spice

    Sugar_and_Spice ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Sep 11, 2010
    between here and there
    You mention everything except the flavoring. Curious as to why you aren't willing to address that. Also having done your homework, have you tried PEG400 yet? It an alternative to pg and may help you get some relief. Most of the online vaper shops that sell nic also have this item.

    And yes, I did read all of your postings and the 1 thing that stands out is your unwillingness to work with making successful vaping by they way your body does or does not respond to it. You cannot change your body reactions so just go with what it is telling you. You say your taste starts to shut off after 4ml of juice but you are not listening and continue to try to force it to accept what is clearly too much of some ingredient for you. And in reading what you wrote you appear to not want to make adjustments to the flavor used. You are really sending your body so many mixed messages by your actions and trying to make it perform in a certain way that apparently it cannot do.
    You want to really want to put down the cigarettes? Then being open to suggestions can just may help you do that, it all depends on you and your patience to methodically go through each ingredient. Obviously it is not the amount of nic but could be how it is processed and where it comes from. Same with the rest of the ingredients.

    YMMV

    oh and just so you know, the nic salts in the pod devices are that high in mg so you only need a few puffs to get you through the next few hours, not to chain vape.
     
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  20. Amerglass

    Amerglass Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 12, 2018
    Thanks again S&S,
    I do appreciate your opinion. Howevervafter a year I wouldn't call it 'unwillingness' but rather loosing the strong will I had. Did you read I quit for 6 months? No analogues, just vape. But that was the beginning of my journey when everything tasted so fine. Wasn't doing anything differently than today. Enjoyed as much as 10ml/day on a rather low 4mg. As this was suggested by my local shop. Tried higher nic but soon would feel itching my throat. It was fine while it lasted. Once the problems started I found myself restarting the analogues. Just 1-2 per day. I found a relief from burnt mouth in it. After a smoke within 10 mins I was 50% better. So that took me to 10 cigs a day along with vaping.
    The cofusing thing is at the beginning I as if couldn't overdo vaping. My mouth and nose were dry in the mornings but that's all.
    The second confusion is I enjoyed vaping and quit smoking rather easily. Never before was I successful in my attempts to quit for more than 2-3 weeks. Always just restarted at a point.
    So, 1 pack a day of middle strong cigs and I succeefed to exchange that for 7-8 ml of e juice with 4 mg of nicotine. I d say that shows the will, don't you think?
    You mentioned the flavours. I found several of them like the most popular one: strawberry - to give me irritation, a sort of allergy probably that led mi into vapers tongue twice. Excluding maltol, acetyl pyrazine etc. I never experienced that again. Today my preference are tobacco vapes. I won'"t deny I like the strong flavour but in my DIY I'd go upto 15%. Always in accordance with flavours recommendations, not above.
    I did respond you I tested pure VG and 80% PG - without any flavour and had the same symptoms. So, both, VG and PG are not good for me.
    Don't know what PEG400 is, will go check around, thanks.

    Well, I just raised my nic to almost 10mg, just to try. And, yes: the throat hit becomes stronger so I am forced to cut down the puffs. Besides I can only MTL such nic content, no DTL. It again lowers the juice intake.
    That's all fine. I just miss the joy I had with my vape at the beginning. Went to same shop for the same liquids and nic but no way to reproduce it.

    Now I hope you undestand better: I enjoy vaping much more than smoking. But, would prefer to be able to chain vape, feel the flavour even after 6, 7, 8 ml. Cause I realy enjoy vaping. You know kids like candies. It is very hard to restrain it by explaining about bed effects.
    I expected quiting cigs is easy to be replaced by vaping. And, it was for 6 months. I am just angry this wouldn't last but changed without a reason.
    The only reason I could think of is my body rehecting higher vape ibtake - due to the vaper's tongue that lasted 2-3 days when I completely lost my taste for everything. Even food and drinks. I am thinking that might've reset my brains to decline vaping at a certain level.

    Bottom line, best advice I got here was to increase the nic. I am doing so but won't go over 12. Still, it is not what I had from vaping at the first 6 months.
    Therefore I am considering to get into a pid with some 20mg of salted to see how that works. I know that's not aimed for chain vaping but I can do it just paralell with a MTL tank. DTL shall be put aside for a while.

    See, I am not that unwilling. It's just that I have had good experience and than suddenly - lost it. And, as I read here - I am not the only one...
    The last thing, I was hoping to see if there's anyone on dual use but obviously all you guys succeeded to quit 100% while I am still struggling.

    Will keep posting my findings.
     
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