Dry hits because of Ni200 wire?? I don’t get it.

[KurtVD]

I thought that I had become quite proficient at building my own coils and wicking, at least good enough that I don’t have to worry about dry hits and stuff like that…
Well, I got a new atomizer recently, and even though it is really easy to build on, I have had a lot of problems with dry hits. I’ve tried thinning the tails better, I’m pretty sure I don’t use too much cotton, it slides through easily, with just a little resistance. So yesterday, after having installed a new coil and wick for like the 8th time in 4 days, I decided to build a Ss136L coil instead of my usual Ni200. I think I have wicked it just like before, but lo and behold, no more dry hits. Is that pure coincidence, or is there something about Ni200 that makes dry hits occur easier? I’ve tried everything from very spaced coils to tighter ones (between 0.12 and 0.17 resistance).
Any ideas? My preferred juice just tastes better with Ni200…

I’m using a mod running Arctic Fox , and always with TC on, set to the type of wire I’m using.

 

[mimöschen]

You should never get any dry hits in TC-mode. Seems like your mod isn't up to the task.

 

[KurtVD]

I agree, and the interesting part is that I have vaped my tank dry a number of times, and if I didn’t get any dry hits while the tank was full, I didn’t get any once it was empty either. But I agree that TC on a DNA mod is certainly smoother than on mine (eleaf Pico 75).
I’m not getting full on dry hits as one would get without TC, but I can definitely taste burnt cotton, and it’s disgusting.

And most importantly, dry hits shouldn’t occur even when vaping without TC on, right? So other than my mod not being great at TC, there’s a different underlying problem here, and I can’t seem to find it…

You should never get any dry hits in TC-mode. Seems like your mod isn't up to the task.

 

[KurtVD]

Don’t know if anyone is going to be reading this, but I ended up finding out what it was…: I got the dry hits because of hot spots, simple as that. Since I was told that you should never test fire a NI coil, I just built and installed them and hoped it was going to be ok.
I will switch to building contact coils, hopefully that will solve it.

 

[440BB]

Don’t know if anyone is going to be reading this, but I ended up finding out what it was…: I got the dry hits because of hot spots, simple as that. Since I was told that you should never test fire a NI coil, I just built and installed them and hoped it was going to be ok.
I will switch to building contact coils, hopefully that will solve it.

Glad you figured this out!

 

[UncLeJunkLe]

The arctic fox forum may provide a lot of info needed to make AF work it's best for TC.

 

[BillW50]

I will switch to building contact coils, hopefully that will solve it.

You mean you're going to switch to spaced coils, right? As spaced coils shouldn't get any hot spots if the wicking is right.

 

[ShowMeTwice]

Arctic Fox firmware will bring any compatible mod up to nearly the level, and quality, of any DNA mod running TC.

I have several DNA mods and several mods running Arctic Fox. Including Pico 75's running AF.

I don't get dry hits when running TC, ever. Don't get dry hits when running in simple wattage mode either.

Dry hits are normally caused by the wicking being too tight within the coil. You should feel resistance when moving a wick side-to-side within a coil.

If it is too tight in the coil you will very likely get dry hits. And, you don't want the wick to be too loose in a coil or you will end up with flooding.

If you are experiencing dry hits then use less wick. Coil material (Ni200, SS316L, etc.) does not matter.

If using rayon you will need to use approximately 1/3 more than you would with cotton. This is because rayon contracts. Cotton expands.

 

[GeorgeS]

Greetings,

Ni200 has the best TCR of all wire types. Just about ANYTHING ought to be able to TCregulate it including the stock firmware of your eleaf device.

The problem that the stupid stock, articfox firmware and DNA devices have is that they will sometimes (sometimes quite often) "forget" a coils cold resistance value even when 'locked' and then think there is a new coil leading to worse yet using a 'warm' resistance value as the base setting. You'll notice this where you'll suddenly get WAY MORE vapor and/or a dry hit.

Dicodes and YiHe devices won't do this.

IDK where you got the idea not to test fire a NI200 coil. Due to the conductive nature of the wire - NON-Contact coils only for NI200.

While I'll still use NI200 on devices that don't have custom TCR settings, my goto wire type in NiFE48. Not as soft as NI200 so its easier to work with. Less conductive so has higher resistance values leading to higher accuracy in the math for temperature regulation.


g.

 

[KurtVD]

That is the first time I heard about NiFe wire, and I couldn’t find it on fasttech. Where would I be able to find that?

Greetings,

.

While I'll still use NI200 on devices that don't have custom TCR settings, my goto wire type in NiFE48. Not as soft as NI200 so its easier to work with. Less conductive so has higher resistance values leading to higher accuracy in the math for temperature regulation.


g.

 

[UncLeJunkLe]

NiFE48 wire - Google Search

Pretty sure you won't get that in China and maybe not even in the USA

 

[BillW50]

The problem that the stupid stock, articfox firmware and DNA devices have is that they will sometimes (sometimes quite often) "forget" a coils cold resistance value even when 'locked' and then think there is a new coil leading to worse yet using a 'warm' resistance value as the base setting. You'll notice this where you'll suddenly get WAY MORE vapor and/or a dry hit.

I haven't seen DNA devices do this in years. Maybe an early firmware version did this. Anyway you can set the cold resistance to anything you want to. On a color DNA you can do it right on the mod with the right theme. PBusardo hates this ability, but I love it (we argue all the time about it). As I can move a hot coil from one mod to another without a problem (as long as you know what the cold resistance is). I believe ArcticFox allows you to do the same thing. It has been awhile since I fired up ArcticFox.

Dicodes and YiHe devices won't do this.

I can't comment on Dicodes, since I never used one. But Yihi uses PWM (pulse width modulation) in TC mode (you can see it on a scope). I'm not a big fan of PWM, but if that is all I had, I'd use it. As it is better than using nothing at all, right?

While I'll still use NI200 on devices that don't have custom TCR settings, my goto wire type in NiFE48. Not as soft as NI200 so its easier to work with. Less conductive so has higher resistance values leading to higher accuracy in the math for temperature regulation.

You can purchase tempered Ni200 which is really stiff wire (I've used it for a couple of years). I'm also one of the few who has no problems with soft Ni200 wire and I really enjoy building with it (takes very little effort to reshape it).

And less conductivity with a higher resistance doesn't give you higher accuracy. The one with the highest TCR does. Since the resistance changes the most with the slightish temperature change. Which happens to be Ni200. Titanium (T1) runs in at a close second place. Say you have a 0.10Ω Ni200 coil at room temperature. Now at vaping temperatures it doubles and then some in resistance. That is huge!

 

[KurtVD]

I believe ArcticFox allows you to do the same thing. It has been awhile since I fired up ArcticFox.

One my version (I installed it 3 or 4 years ago and never updated it), I can’t set the resistance to whatever I want, at least not on the mod itself (I believe you can set it on the computer, if the mod is connected to it). Upon reset (for example removing and reinstalling the atomizer), if the measured resistance is different from what it was before, you get a message asking if you want to keep the old setting, or use the new value. I can’t set it to anything else.

However, there’s a way to cheat, for example if I feel that the measured resistance is too low, which happens sometimes (if I get very little, cool vapor even with TC set to high temperatures). In this case, I can observe the resistance go down after firing and double-click the fire button at some point before it has completely cooled, that will set it to this value. Afterwards I have to lock it, or it will set itself to the cold-state value again. I use this feature sometimes, usually to add like 1/100 Ohm (.16 instead of .15).

 

[BillW50]

Yes I see what you are doing KurtVD. You are tricking it to get hotter than the calibrated temperature reading. Some might have a problem with that, but I don't. As I question some of the accuracy of some of these boards anyway.

Although I am curious, if you leave the atty sit for an hour or more (overnight is perfect) and then place it on the mod (and select new coil) and try to vape it, how high do you have to crank the temperature to get the vape you like? Does it even on the highest setting is still too cool for you?

 

[KurtVD]

Yes I see what you are doing KurtVD. You are tricking it to get hotter than the calibrated temperature reading. Some might have a problem with that, but I don't. As I question some of the accuracy of some of these boards anyway.

Although I am curious, if you leave the atty sit for an hour or more (overnight is perfect) and then place it on the mod (and select new coil) and try to vape it, how high do you have to crank the temperature to get the vape you like? Does it even on the highest setting is still too cool for you?

Yes to the last question: I ‘should’ get a nice warm vapor at about 200C (392F), plus/minus about 25 degrees. It happens that even at a setting considerably above that, like 235C, I hardly get any vapor at all, just a little bit, and it’s so cool that it’s almost like nothing, taste wise as well. In these situations, setting the resistance just 1/100 Ohm higher is perfect, it will give me a big warm mouthful of vapor (I don’t inhale…). I have never done the math, but I always found it surprising that so little can make such a big difference.

 

[KurtVD]

Greetings,

IDK where you got the idea not to test fire a NI200 coil. Due to the conductive nature of the wire - NON-Contact coils only for NI200.

Here, but I forgot when and which thread. I didn’t get a definitive yes/no answer, but one or two posters thought that it would be better to never heat it up that much, not even to test for hot spots.

QUOTE="GeorgeS, post: 23485982, member: 258194"]Greetings,

Ni200 has the best TCR of all wire types. Just about ANYTHING ought to be able to TCregulate it including the stock firmware of your eleaf device.

[/QUOTE]

i see. But given that the resistance of Ni200 is very low, doesn’t that mean that it heats up quicker than a wire with high resistance? Which means that the mod must react quicker to prevent ‘over’heating (over the set temp), correct? So in this sense it would be true that Ni200 makes dry hits more likely (obviously only if there’s something wrong in the first place, like bad wicking), isn’t it?

 

[mimöschen]

1. Don't dryburn nickel.

2. No.

 

[KurtVD]

1. Don't dryburn nickel.

How else can I check for hot spots?

 

[mimöschen]

You don't need to check for hotspots when building spaced coils, which is the only option for Ni200 wire.
Never ever build contact coils.

 

[BillW50]

Here, but I forgot when and which thread.

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