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E-cigarettes may contain dangerous chemicals

Discussion in 'Media and General News' started by Bill Godshall, Dec 9, 2011.

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  1. Bill Godshall

    Bill Godshall Executive Director
    Smokefree Pennsylvania
    ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Apr 2, 2009
    More fearmongering lies and misrepresentations about e-cigarettes. Posting some corrective comments might be helpful.

    www. reporternews .com/news/2011/dec/05/e-cigarettes-may-contain-dangerous-chemicals/
  2. DC2

    DC2 Tootie Puffer Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 21, 2009
    San Diego
    This is a pretty decent article, actually, but not great.

    But what I like about it is that John Polito has chimed in on the comments section.
    And he sounds like he is bending towards supporting electronic cigarettes to some extent.

    That ought to shut Electricman up, because I'm sure John Polito is one of his heroes.
  3. Ande

    Ande Super Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 27, 2011
    Some of John Polito's ideas about addiction are sort of distasteful to me, but...he seems like a smart man.

    Smart and honest are both rare commodoties in tobacco control. Here's hoping...

  4. sqirl1

    sqirl1 Super Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 10, 2011
    St. Louis, MO
    I haven't seen anything from Electricman in a while..... maybe he died lol
  5. Demarko

    Demarko Super Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 15, 2010
    Seattle, WA
    He's been stalking casaa folks on twitter.
  6. DC2

    DC2 Tootie Puffer Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 21, 2009
    San Diego
    I guess this is one of those times I am out of the loop, since I don't tweet.

    It might be said that Electricman has done as much to unite us as anyone.
    And if so, then for that I think I might just thank him someday.
  7. txteatime

    txteatime Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 19, 2011
    Wow, this is my local newspaper. I don't know how I missed that article!

    What's weird is that it's supposedly written by "scientists" but all these guys have written is the same old unproven crap that is repeated over and over. If they're "scientists," then why aren't they using their knowledge and skills to test the products instead of using propaganda. That's what I said in my response, among other things. :) It's in the comments section.
  8. sqirl1

    sqirl1 Super Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 10, 2011
    St. Louis, MO
    that's real productive.
  9. Vapor Pete

    Vapor Pete The Vapor Pope ECF Veteran

    Mar 14, 2009
    Rochester, NY
    As usual, the points made in the "Comments" section speak more truth than the article.
  10. throatkick

    throatkick Unregistered Supplier ECF Veteran

    Dec 20, 2010
    With all the people here it can't be too much of a stretch of the imagination to dream that one day soon an article will appear in the mainstream media with the following title:

    "ATTENTION ! Articles slamming E-Cigarettes may contain deceptive information"

    In any case, I think it would be interesting if someone actually looked at the evidence thus far and openly questioned some of the articles. There's got to be a hungry journalist out there..........
  11. SiBurning

    SiBurning Full Member

    Apr 29, 2011
    The article mentions two chemicals: diethylene glycol and nitrosamine.

    Diethylene glycol could potentially come from solder flux. From wikipedia: "Water-soluble organic fluxes tend to contain vehicles based on high-boiling polyols - glycols, diethylene glycol and higher polyglycols, polyglycol-based surfactants and glycerol." I checked a new CE2 (see this thread) and it does appear to contain some left over flux.

    Nitrosamine may come from rubber somewhere in the hardware, or, less more likely, from (the nicotine in) some e-juices. (Thulium corrected me below.)

    Perhaps more careful manufacturing of the hardware could eliminate these and other unnecessary and dangerous chemicals.
  12. Thulium

    Thulium Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    That's an interesting point about the solder flux potentially containing diethylene glycol, but the FDA only found "about 1%" (less than .01ml) DEG in one out of 18 cartridges they tested which is most likely from the use of non-food grade PG...but the FDA did not detect any DEG in the actual vapor, which should be unsurprising because DEG vaporizes at a significantly higher temperature than PG or VG.

    The nitrosamines detected were actually Tobacco-Specific and found at levels very comparable to pharmaceutical nicotine--approximately 1 nanogram of TSNA for every 2mg of nicotine in a e-cig cartridge, lozenge, patch, gum, or inhalator. Agan, this should be surprising to no-one that NRT's and e-cigarettes have similarly minute quantities of tobacco specific nitrosamines, because both use nicotine derived from tobacco. However, known harmful exposures of nitrosamines are generally measured in parts per million, while the FDA was measuring e-cig cartridges in single-digit parts per BILLION--one 1.6% nicotine e-cig cartridge contains approximately 8 nanograms of TSNA while a single cigarette may contain over 10,000ng of TSNA's...and that's BEFORE it's lit on fire creating all sorts of other carcinogens and toxins in SMOKE.
  13. Taintedhalo

    Taintedhalo Super Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 31, 2011
    One of the things most mentioned in these articles is that the flavors and colors entice kids to start. First we must assume kids are choiceless creatures that can't think things out for themselves. If color was all it took to get teens to try something then I would have added food coloring to all my veggies. LOL As for flavor lets face it they have so many ways to get flavor they don't need this. Now that said yes there are going to be some teens that use these to look "cooler" and more "adult". I tend to think that with the anti-smoking education they get now they will choose 0 nic juice though. Given the choice of seeing someone pick up an analog or a 0 nic pv oh I would so choose the pv. Kids aren't stupid if they have a way to shock thier parents and not hurt themselves they will do just that.
  14. Taintedhalo

    Taintedhalo Super Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 31, 2011
    Oh and I forgot to add in a state where there is a large smoking population my kids don't smoke. And I do not condone anyone starting an addiction. I am just saying that for those who already are this is a good alternative. Also that it is silly to stop something that may save lives because it "might" appeal to an age group that is innapropriate. Parents have the resposibility to make sure thier kids aren't buying them.
  15. kristin

    kristin Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    I love that people want to speak up, but posts like this show that there is still a need to get the facts out to "semi-informed" e-cigarette users:

    Here are the errors in this post, which unfortunately, make the writer sound just as uninformed as the writer of the article. It seems to be more of a case of mixed messages, but it still looks bad. Unfortunately, I often see these facts being mixed up like this by well-meaning vapers. If we are going to claim to be telling the truth about e-cigarettes, we must have our facts straight and be infallible! So, just as clarification for others who may want to comment...

    (1) E-cigarette manufacturers never were approved or authorized to market e-cigarettes as smoking cessation devices. The April 2011 decision by the FDA not to challenge the Sottera vs. FDA resulted in the FDA essentially being stopped from regulating e-cigarettes as drug delivery devices (ie. smoking cessation treatments) and requiring the same expensive and time-consuming clinical trials required of approved smoking cessation treatments. While it is unfortunate and unfair that something which so obviously helps people quit smoking can only make the claim if it is actually an FDA-approved nicotine cessation product, the fact that the FDA cannot regulate e-cigarettes as smoking cessation devices (effectively removing them from the market) is a good thing.

    (2) The FDA test found "approximately 1% diethylene glycol." Stating it was "much less than 1%" is not accurate. One point often overlooked in comments, though, is that the DEG was found in the liquid of only one of the 18 tested and has not been found in any testing since. Additionally, the DEG was NOT found in the vapor - which is significant because we do not consume the liquid or cartridges, we inhale the vapor, which has never been found to contain DEG.

    Finally, the level of DEG found is not a toxic amount to an adult, even if you drank it or swallowed the cartridge. The FDA states that the relevant safety limit for DEG is 0.1%, but the overall dose is what makes the poison. A typical e-cigarette cartridge holds less than 3ml of liquid. At 1%, that would be only .03ml of DEG, (possibly) consumed over several hours. On the other hand, drinking a 12oz beverage (in less than an hour) with .01% DEG (the FDA limit) would also be .03ml consumed - and that's OK with the FDA. (For comparison, the deaths from the well-known DEG-contaminated cough elixir were from consuming 21ml or more of DEG - 700 times the amount found in the e-cigarette by the FDA.)

    (3) The FDA never claimed that e-cigarette liquid was DEG based, so this argument is confusing.

    (4) This comment seems to be confusing the fact that FDA-approved nicotine cessation products, such as the patch, contain similar levels of TSNAs as e-cigarettes. The argument for PG found in these products is also confusing and I'm not sure if PG is even an ingredient in the products listed and even if it was, the "level of propylene glycol" (a non-toxic, inactive ingredient) is not relevant.
  16. Tom09

    Tom09 Super Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 22, 2009
    Since some of the later posts in this thread reflect the drive to seek and provide truthful information, and an intention of weeding out weak arguments, I’d also like to address the DEG topic.

    Not to blame the commentator, but this is an unfortunate example of Stille Post (Chinese Whispers):
    Use Google and it appears as if the second part of “I must concede that diethylene glycol is indeed toxic. That much is true. But how toxic is it? It possesses one-tenth the toxicity of household aspirin, not to mention one-fortieth the toxicity of nicotine” (which made sense in an intelligent and humorous evaluation of the FDA press release by Jason Katzwinkel, August 2009), later turned into an utterly BS “the tested E-Cigarette cartridges had about 1/10 the DG that can be found in aspirin, and about 1/40 the amount found in your typical tobacco cigarette” (from a blog by Paul Fetters, July 2010).

    I’m not aware where FDA would have stated to have assayed for DEG in simulated use (vapor).
    Anyway, boiling points (from Wikipedia): PG (188.2°C) < DEG (244–245°C) < Nicotine (247°C) < Glycerin (290°C).
    Therewith expect that, while fractionation may occur, just as nicotine makes it in the vapor phase of a PG-based liquid mixture, so does DEG - if present.

    Sample count is an argument on the loose. If a snapshot of 18 out of countless returns one positive, it is safe to assume that probably more than only one bad cart is out there (throwing in another 0.5% DEG from FDA’s warning letter to Cixi, and a possibly bad boy from the IVAQS thread on VF).

    There is no place for DEG in e-liquid, and I hope that consumer advocates continue to be critical, and adamant in exposing companies that fail at basic responsibility tests. Unfortunately, regulatory authorities around the world often followed ideologically motivated attempts to drive e-cigs off the market, and refused to act on behalf or in the interest of the consumer. In the present situation, consumer networking is our only safeguard. IMO, we should have no problem in acknowledging that the present market is divers. There is a wide spectrum, from irresponsible companies, to companies that, when taken to task, have come off squeaky clean.
  17. Placebo Effect

    Placebo Effect Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 19, 2008
    Letter: Accurate information needed » Abilene Reporter-News

  18. Laffs

    Laffs Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 28, 2011
  19. Placebo Effect

    Placebo Effect Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 19, 2008
    I suspect the majority of the people who replied last time were e-cigarette users who found the professors' misleading article through a Google News search.

    I'm sure this was read by more than a few people, and that's a positive.

    Thanks again for writing the letter.
  20. Vocalek

    Vocalek CASAA Activist ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Apr 7, 2009
    Springfield, VA
    That was a really, really well-written letter, Sharon.
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