E-ciggs in Jail

[Automaton]

sailorman,

Once again, blown away by your honestly and eloquence conveying what I failed to.

I have no criminal history. I have never actually shared more than 5 words with a cop who was on duty. I avoid them like the plague.

Not because I've got "something to hide" (I don't - I'm the most boring 21-year-old you'll ever meet), but because of the conversations I've had with off-duty cops. Because of the people who HAVE been to prison that I've talked to. Because of the insane laws the government has pushed that destroy lives.

The protective force of this country is the enemy of most people. And it is especially the enemy of the people who need help the most. They are the ones who get locked away.

I knew a wonderful woman who, at 30 years of age, developed full-blown schizophrenic psychosis. She had no previous psych history, no criminal record, and she did not use drugs.

She stabbed a friend in her psychotic haze... and they sent her to prison. They sent a woman in need of immediate medical and psychiatric care to jail. They knew she was schizophrenic - they diagnosed her. And still she sat in a cell.

I have no idea what became of her. I have no way of finding out now, but even if I did I would be scared to know.

These people destroy lives for a paycheck and it disgusts me so deeply I can't find words.

I have talked to cops who chuckled as they described beating a suspect. I've seen people come out of prison with PTSD from the experience.

I don't trust cops, or our legal system, for the exact same reason most of the people here don't trust the FDA.

We don't trust the FDA because they would rather see people die puffing a cigarette through a stoma, than see them use e-cigs and lose all that precious tax money.

It's sickening.

And how anyone can see what's going on with the FDA, and yet purposefully blind themselves to what's going on in the penitentiary system, is just beyond me. I am at a loss.

 

[sailorman]

I call BS on that story. No prison in the country would allow you to have $50-500/mo. worth of "stuff". So, unless she was somehow sending him cash, or did it for one or two months, that's BS.
And again, no criminal considers whether or not he'll be comfortable in prison. Your ex's uncle thought he wouldn't get caught. Period.
And there is no country on earth with Sheriff Joe type jails or prisons that has "next to no return visitors".
Some places, like Colombia, have prisons so brutal that few survive. Is that what you mean?
The places with the lowest recidivism rates have jails you would have a conniption over if you saw them. Like some of the European and Scandinavian countries, which even I consider a little too soft.
Can you imagine a criminal thinking.. "Hmmm, let's see...If I shoot this cop, I'll be able to have a TV and DVD player, so I'll go ahead and do it" or "Hmmm...If I shoot this cop, I won't be able to watch TV for 20 years and I'll have to eat nothing but bologna sandwiches and wear pink undies.....I better not do it". That's ridiculous.
Maybe you can have your own TV in CA prisons, but not in FL. unless you're on death row.
Nobody sends in anything that's not on a pre-approved list. And the list is shorter and shorter the more secure the facility. Books and magazines must come directly from the publisher, even in a minimum security prison.

I guess you're one of those people who value your freedom? But someone else's freedom means nothing and they're happy to lose it as long as they have "creature comforts". Right?

Gosh, if only your ex's uncle didn't have that DVD player, he wouldn't have stabbed that guard, right?

I only hope that if he gets out, he moves in next door to you and not me. I'm sure the worse they treat him, the better neighbor he'll make and he'll think twice before committing another crime. Yeah, Right. Makes sense to me.

BTW Sheriff Joe is an ignorant, grandstanding ahole who just knows what he needs to do to garner votes from short-sighted, ignorant, vindictive rednecks like himself. Enjoy your vengeance and revel in your ignorance. All of us pay for it in the long run. Only the politicians and prison industries benefit.

 

[rekeybobby]

i didnt read thru all the pages but the possibility of inmates poisoning each other with the liquid could be a problem and the things they could think of with a batt controlled device not good

 

[illuxion]

I call BS on that story. No prison in the country would allow you to have $50-500/mo. worth of "stuff". So, unless she was somehow sending him cash, or did it for one or two months, that's BS.
And again, no criminal considers whether or not he'll be comfortable in prison. Your ex's uncle thought he wouldn't get caught. Period.
And there is no country on earth with Sheriff Joe type jails or prisons that has "next to no return visitors".
Some places, like Colombia, have prisons so brutal that few survive. Is that what you mean?
The places with the lowest recidivism rates have jails you would have a conniption over if you saw them. Like some of the European and Scandinavian countries, which even I consider a little too soft.
Can you imagine a criminal thinking.. "Hmmm, let's see...If I shoot this cop, I'll be able to have a TV and DVD player, so I'll go ahead and do it" or "Hmmm...If I shoot this cop, I won't be able to watch TV for 20 years and I'll have to eat nothing but bologna sandwiches and wear pink undies.....I better not do it". That's ridiculous.
Maybe you can have your own TV in CA prisons, but not in FL. unless you're on death row.
Nobody sends in anything that's not on a pre-approved list. And the list is shorter and shorter the more secure the facility. Books and magazines must come directly from the publisher, even in a minimum security prison.

I guess you're one of those people who value your freedom? But someone else's freedom means nothing and they're happy to lose it as long as they have "creature comforts". Right?

Gosh, if only your ex's uncle didn't have that DVD player, he wouldn't have stabbed that guard, right?

I only hope that if he gets out, he moves in next door to you and not me. I'm sure the worse they treat him, the better neighbor he'll make and he'll think twice before committing another crime. Yeah, Right. Makes sense to me.

BTW Sheriff Joe is an ignorant, grandstanding ahole who just knows what he needs to do to garner votes from short-sighted, ignorant, vindictive rednecks like himself. Enjoy your vengeance and revel in your ignorance. All of us pay for it in the long run. Only the politicians and prison industries benefit.

You don't think? He could have several magazines at once, a few movies and you can put money into his account so that he can spend it in the general store, yes they have a general store. Before the stabbing he was in medium wing Lompoc Federal correction center. Before that he was in Littleton FCC but was suspected of dealing drugs(dealing drugs from within the walls, what a jackass). Currently he has returned to colorado, but no littleton this time, he went straight to ADX(super max).

Maybe you're too distant from it. With my ex wench I was exposed to a wonderful world of El Norte, XIV(fine upstanding citizens, norcal gangbangers who like to wear red). Hearing young men talking about, "I ain't afraid of no cops, F' em. what are they gonna do, put me back in? I got plenty of friends in and out" This same loudmouth was back in the hole a few months later after robbing someone at gunpoint. My ex's dad has 3 teardrops and more ink than you could imagine. One uncle shot dead. One in prison forever. 2 cousins in CYA, one of whom will be transfered to SQ in 2 months.

I think no judicial system is 100% correct, but ours is an absolute joke. Wsen an inmate can spit or cuss at a guard and the guard can do nothing about something is wrong. When the guards are more afraid of the inmates than vice versa, something is wrong. Jail SHOULD BE about learning some respect and dealing with your wrong doings. I expect that if you are put in jail for drug trafficking and you spit in a guard's face, the next 6 months you spend eating from a straw because the guard shattered your jaw would be great reflection. In my travels I've only met one person abroad who had been to prison. A young man in malaysia that did 5 years after his first offense of stealing tires for his scooter. He was a reformed man, scared straight if you will. I see thugs every day living in San Jose that are PROUD to be criminals, proud to boast about their jail time. NO OTHER country have I seen this. My travels are pretty much limited to Asia(we have factories Thailand, 2 in Malaysia, 3 in China, 1 in Vietnam, 1 in Indonesia, and 1 in PI), but it's funny that in every one of those countries I feel more safe and secure than where I was born and raised. Our society is getting out of hand, and the only glaring thing I can see if the loosening of our legal system. I consider myself to be quite liberal, but our judicial system is an absolute joke from top to bottom.

 

[sailorman]

MistressNomad,

I think some people have a mental illness that robs them of empathy, or rather replaces empathy with sadism or greed or something. They get a particular kick out of vindictiveness and vengeance.
Money becomes the measure of human worth and the be-all and end-all of existence.

I've notice that it's the same people who get all bent at the though of a prisoner spending a moment free of torment that gripe about "welfare queens" or whatever. They just can't understand that not everyone is the same and reacts the same way to everything as they do. It drives them nuts to think someone got away with something they couldn't or that someone got something with less effort than they expended. I did this, why can't you? I wouldn't do this, why would you? I got mine, if you don't, you're lazy or a lesser human being... If you need help, you're weak and unworthy. Look how great I am. I must be better than you.
It seems like these people are incapable of recognizing that they didn't get where they are, they didn't do what they did, or not do what they didn't do, because of some inherent superiority and self-discipline. We are all products of factors we don't have complete and utter control over, for good or bad. Some people can't recognize that they got where they are by a confluence of many factors, the least of which is their own virtue.

It's like Ann Richards once said of GW Bush. "He was born on third base and thought he hit a triple".

I believe in personal responsibility as much as the next guy, but the concept of self-determination is way overrated.

I prefer "There, but for the grace of God, go I" to "Pull yourself up by your own bootstraps"

Or, "Vengeance is mine, sayeth the Lord"....or..."As you treat the least of you, so do you treat me"
(or something like that. I'm an atheist!! ) LOL

 

[Matodd]

sailorman,

I have talked to cops who chuckled as they described beating a suspect. I've seen people come out of prison with PTSD from the experience.

Please don't judge all police officers by the actions of a few. I know some very good officers who would never even think of doing such a thing. Some people are just a**holes who let the least bit of power go to their heads.

I agree some people come out of prison in worse shape than when they went in. It's scary. There are not enough programs or money to rehab those who really need and deserve it. It's sad but true. And I don't see reform anytime soon.
Just my two cents.

 

[Automaton]

sailorman - Yes, it's called being a sociopath. Although people who are emotionally/psychologically undeveloped can act in sociopathic ways as well.

I don't get it either, but I see a common thread amongst those of us who do - finding reasons to remain wholly human while also experiencing suffering. Excluding sociopaths, the people who want vengeance, are sadistic and greedy, have either never suffered, or gave up their humanity when they did suffer.

And even those people qualify for what you said - it's a combination of factors... and not always a choice. Sometimes it is, but not for everyone. Improving society as a whole will create a society in which fewer people are like that. If only there were more people who didn't feel a need to be vengeful, sadistic, and greedy.

I wish I knew the answer.

Matodd - I know. I'm sorry if it came off as a blanket statement. I'm happy to converse with an off-duty cop to suss out what kind of person they really are. But on duty... my first instinct is just to avoid them. For some of them, just because I'm not doing anything wrong doesn't mean they don't want to meet quota.

I don't take risks with entities I don't trust. Same with the FDA. I'm sure there are people in the FDA who genuinely care, but I'm not going to assume that of the entity as a whole.

 

[sailorman]

You don't think? He could have several magazines at once, a few movies and you can put money into his account so that he can spend it in the general store, yes they have a general store. Before the stabbing he was in medium wing Lompoc Federal correction center. Before that he was in Littleton FCC but was suspected of dealing drugs(dealing drugs from within the walls, what a jackass). Currently he has returned to colorado, but no littleton this time, he went straight to ADX(super max).

Maybe you're too distant from it. With my ex wench I was exposed to a wonderful world of El Norte, XIV(fine upstanding citizens, norcal gangbangers who like to wear red). Hearing young men talking about, "I ain't afraid of no cops, F' em. what are they gonna do, put me back in? I got plenty of friends in and out" This same loudmouth was back in the hole a few months later after robbing someone at gunpoint. My ex's dad has 3 teardrops and more ink than you could imagine. One uncle shot dead. One in prison forever. 2 cousins in CYA, one of whom will be transfered to SQ in 2 months.

I think no judicial system is 100% correct, but ours is an absolute joke. Wsen an inmate can spit or cuss at a guard and the guard can do nothing about something is wrong. When the guards are more afraid of the inmates than vice versa, something is wrong. Jail SHOULD BE about learning some respect and dealing with your wrong doings. I expect that if you are put in jail for drug trafficking and you spit in a guard's face, the next 6 months you spend eating from a straw because the guard shattered your jaw would be great reflection. In my travels I've only met one person abroad who had been to prison. A young man in malaysia that did 5 years after his first offense of stealing tires for his scooter. He was a reformed man, scared straight if you will. I see thugs every day living in San Jose that are PROUD to be criminals, proud to boast about their jail time. NO OTHER country have I seen this. My travels are pretty much limited to Asia(we have factories Thailand, 2 in Malaysia, 3 in China, 1 in Vietnam, 1 in Indonesia, and 1 in PI), but it's funny that in every one of those countries I feel more safe and secure than where I was born and raised. Our society is getting out of hand, and the only glaring thing I can see if the loosening of our legal system. I consider myself to be quite liberal, but our judicial system is an absolute joke from top to bottom.

I'll agree that our judicial system is a joke, but it sounds like CA needs to tighten up it's system.

I can tell you in Florida, none of that would fly. But the CA crime rate is no worse than Florida's. So, I doubt seriously that our tougher prison system makes any difference. If it did, we'd be safer than CA. We aren't.

In Florida, we had a canteen (store) too, but more than $20 was contraband. Any other money was in an account and you got to draw $20 a week from it. You could not have more than about $200 in you account at any one time. No A/C, no private TV's or DVD's or cassette players or electronic gizmos at all. No private clothing except underwear. No long hair or beards. The only people who thought it was comfortable were those who grew up so deprived that they never had a square meal or clean clothes except in prison. If you spat on a guard, you'd be beaten to a pulp and kicked to sleep every night for a month. You had to literally beg for medical attention if you needed it. Every personal item, which was pretty much limited to a watch and a radio, you had was engraved with your DOC number and had a maximum allowable dollar value. You could have a few books and magazines.

Asia is notorious for it's brutal police and jails. I wouldn't call it learning respect to be brutalized by police or the legal system, I'd call it learning fear and contempt. A fearful dog is an obedient dog. But I don't trust him and I wouldn't want to live in a society that relied on fear to keep order. Kind of like the fathers that beat the carp out of their kids so they'll "respect" them. A decent system would be somewhere between CA and Asia I guess. I wouldn't want to live in a place where the law treated anybody, criminal or not, like they do in Colombia or Asia. My personal safety is important to me, but not so important that I'd enjoy life in a virtual police state where life is as cheap to the government as it is to the worst criminals. I have the same objection to all the measures in place to supposedly protect me from "terrorists". I'm just not willing to trade so much freedom for safety and you cannot convince me that the worse you treat someone in prison, the better person he'll be when he get's out. He may act that way superficially, but it's against human nature. If you expect someone to learn respect in prison, you're on a hopeless quest. By that time, it's far too late. No prison has made anyone a better person really. At best, it's taught them how to behave acceptably when they have to. At worst, it's taught them how to be even more aggressive and predatory.

I've always thought there should only be 2 lengths of prison sentences. Two years and life. After two years, you have nearly ruined a person and you might as well keep him forever.

I suspect many of the bangers who act so tough on the street never spent more than a week in a county lockup. There's plenty of bravado and BS among punks like that. I also suspect that some of them act like they do largely because of what a stint in a prison does to a person. I know my brief time made me more assertive. Not aggressive, but assertive. In my case, that was actually kind of a good thing. But it also made me very cynical, distrusting and contemptuous of authority. I can only imagine what an Asian prison would have done to me. Respectful would not be on the list.

BTW, There has been no "loosening" of the legal system. Quite the contrary. Sentences for everything have only gone up. The parole system was abolished in Florida long ago. The concept of rehabilitation has been abandoned in favor of retribution because that's all the simple minded voters can relate to and it's an easy way to get cheap votes.

 

[sailorman]

Please don't judge all police officers by the actions of a few. I know some very good officers who would never even think of doing such a thing. Some people are just a**holes who let the least bit of power go to their heads.....

Hopefully, you're in favor of tearing down that blue wall of silence? Like Mistress, I have little problem with off-duty cops in certain social settings. But I have seen too much testilying, padding of charges and general scummy behavior from cops to take a chance with them. (I was a bondsman in a small town for a while years ago). It's too bad that a few "bad apples" spoil the bunch, but I'm not a good enough instant psychoanalyst to determine if I got a good one or a bad one asking to see my drivers license. So, I'd prefer to speak to them as little as humanly possible and cooperate with them just enough to prevent being victimized by a bad one, but no more.

Perhaps I'll stop treating every cop I encounter like a potential criminal when cops stop treating every citizen they encounter like potential criminals.

 

[UGADAWGs]

I have thought for a long time that the prison system in this country is in need of serious reform. I think that prisons should be seperated into three catagories and the prisoners should be treated accordingly.

1. hardcore criminals who have no chance of rehabilitation. The rapists, child molesters, murderers etc. If you have proven than you don't belong in society you should never be let out, you should go to a supermax were you are treated decently but are not allowed to come in contact with others in any way were you can do damage. We don't have to become heartless or cruel or lower ourselves to their level. Just lock them up throw away the key and keep them from harming each other or anyone else.

2. The people who need to pe punished. These are the people that have committed a crime but are unlikely to be a repeat offender. The reason for the punishment is to discourage these people and others from doing what they have done. The punishment needs to be severe enough to discourage this behaviour. Most of the time I can't see prison as the solution for these people at all. Severe fines, community service, heck even caning would make more sense then sending them to prison.

3. Rehabilitation: these are the people who currently should not be allowed in society because they simply can't be trusted to be part of society. These are the marginal people who we should really be spending the most amount of effort on. They should not be let out untill they have proven that they have the skills to live in society without damaging others. If they can't or won't acquire these skills (after being given the chance to) or get out and commit further crimes then they go to supermax for life.

As for victimless crimes. I don't believe it's possible to commit a crime without a victim. No victim no crime. Breaking a law does not make you a criminal, damaging others or their property does. The rest are civil infractions and should be treated as such. For example drunk driving is not a crime. Negligent driving were you hurt someone or their property is a crime, regardless of the reason for the negligence.

As for vaping in prison, if it can be allowed without it being a threat it should be, as long as it is paid for by the prisoner. It would reduce the cost of health care for these prisoners. However, I doubt that this would fit in with the current system or at least not at the vast majority of the prisons.

Drunk Driving is a crime!!!
I lost my best friend to a drunk driver, and the kicker is he had 6 previous DUI's. I belive you should recive a mandotory 5 years for your 3rd DUI because if you have not learned by the 3rd it is only a matter of time before you kill or hurt someone.

 

[UGADAWGs]

sailorman,

Once again, blown away by your honestly and eloquence conveying what I failed to.

I have no criminal history. I have never actually shared more than 5 words with a cop who was on duty. I avoid them like the plague.

Not because I've got "something to hide" (I don't - I'm the most boring 21-year-old you'll ever meet), but because of the conversations I've had with off-duty cops. Because of the people who HAVE been to prison that I've talked to. Because of the insane laws the government has pushed that destroy lives.

The protective force of this country is the enemy of most people. And it is especially the enemy of the people who need help the most. They are the ones who get locked away.

I knew a wonderful woman who, at 30 years of age, developed full-blown schizophrenic psychosis. She had no previous psych history, no criminal record, and she did not use drugs.

She stabbed a friend in her psychotic haze... and they sent her to prison. They sent a woman in need of immediate medical and psychiatric care to jail. They knew she was schizophrenic - they diagnosed her. And still she sat in a cell.

I have no idea what became of her. I have no way of finding out now, but even if I did I would be scared to know.

These people destroy lives for a paycheck and it disgusts me so deeply I can't find words.

I have talked to cops who chuckled as they described beating a suspect. I've seen people come out of prison with PTSD from the experience.

I don't trust cops, or our legal system, for the exact same reason most of the people here don't trust the FDA.

We don't trust the FDA because they would rather see people die puffing a cigarette through a stoma, than see them use e-cigs and lose all that precious tax money.

It's sickening.

And how anyone can see what's going on with the FDA, and yet purposefully blind themselves to what's going on in the penitentiary system, is just beyond me. I am at a loss.

Wow it really upsets me you feel this way about Law Enforcment Officers. Being a Deputy Sheriff I pride my self in helping people not trying to hurt them. I have looked into the eyes of a 4 year old who just saw her mother beat into a coma after being raped by someone who broke into her home. I feel my job is to try and catch these people before they hurt people. I take no joy in using force I only use it to ensure I return home to my kids. As far as the woman you knew that was not cops that did that, that was the system and it does need a lot of work. By the way, as much as you might not like me for being a cop I would still risk my life without thinking to save you or anyone else.

 

[NinetyNine]

All this thread has taught me is that painting groups with a single brush is a recipe for being wrong.

There are perfectly decent cops and there are perfectly decent criminals, and there are amoral cops and there are amoral criminals, and then there are the majority of either group in the middle.

People are complicated. Don't ever believe anyone who tells you different.

 

[Matodd]

Sailorman

I've had my share of traffic stops and I agree I don't really want to find out what kind of person they are right then. I was once stopped for having dead tags didn't realize they were dead at the time. The cop who stopped me was an a**. I was 7 months pregnant could barely fit behind the wheel and he acted like I was out joyriding instead of being on my way home from work. So cops in uniform make me nervous too. I think they do everyone. (Especially the ones I pass on Friday nights at football games on way to the parking lot to smoke well now vape.)

Bottom line I think we can all agree on is that the system needs fixed.

 

[BradSmith]

Drunk Driving is a crime!!!
I lost my best friend to a drunk driver, and the kicker is he had 6 previous DUI's. I belive you should recive a mandotory 5 years for your 3rd DUI because if you have not learned by the 3rd it is only a matter of time before you kill or hurt someone.

The crime occured when he killed your friend. That was the crime and he should be punished. I lost a friend to a tired driver, while he was being transported down state for a drunk driving rehabilitation class. Pulling on heart strings is an effective way of promoting an agenda, but it's not the way towards a rational policy. More fatal accidents occur each from drivers who opperate vehicles while sleepy than drunk. Because I lost a good friend (and the world lost an amazing artist) should I say that people who are found to drive while tired spend 5 years in a prison and effectively destroy their life forever? I do agree that drinking and driving is a poor choice and that they don't belong on the roads but that doesn't mean that they are criminals untill they have actually hurt someone or their property. Drunk drivers should be dealt with and treated as if they commited a civil infraction. Loss of liscence, rehab if they want it back.

 

[prta79]

i can't believe some of the posts i've read in this thread ,
people are way too liberal these days , and our country's current status shows it right now!!!

i have a relative who works an a med securuty prison in ma , most of the inmates on his watch are child molesterers and rapists, they already have way more rights than any prisoner should have (flat screen tv's ,weight rooms, basketball courts,etc)

some liberal people seem to forget they are in prison for a reason , they are crimanals!!!! they are supposed to be there for punishment and to keep them away from the public for the saftey, the saftey of the normal good people that are free.

prisoners don't deserve e-cigarettes , they don't deserve jack s!@t.......

 

[sailorman]

The crime occured when he killed your friend. That was the crime and he should be punished. I lost a friend to a tired driver, while he was being transported down state for a drunk driving rehabilitation class. Pulling on heart strings is an effective way of promoting an agenda, but it's not the way towards a rational policy. More fatal accidents occur each from drivers who opperate vehicles while sleepy than drunk. Because I lost a good friend (and the world lost an amazing artist) should I say that people who are found to drive while tired spend 5 years in a prison and effectively destroy their life forever? I do agree that drinking and driving is a poor choice and that they don't belong on the roads but that doesn't mean that they are criminals untill they have actually hurt someone or their property. Drunk drivers should be dealt with and treated as if they commited a civil infraction. Loss of liscence, rehab if they want it back.

Amen Brother Smith.
Drunk driving is just a little more stupid than the idea that "it's only a matter of time before you kill someone".
Since when do we punish someone for what MIGHT happen.
There are a million things that MIGHT hurt someone.
If enough people leave a jug of bleach out on the counter for long enough, kids will die. So 5 years for you.
The odds of hurting someone when driving while technically drunk, especially as they continue to ratchet down the legal limit, are way lower than the MADD types would have you think.
I will say this: If you keep vaping and driving long enough, it's only a matter of time before you will die.
Some insanely high percentage of people on the road on a typical Friday night are legally drunk. If the odds of a drunk driver having a collision was so high as they'd have you believe, it would be weekly carnage and you'd be a fool to be out there at all. Half the kids in the country would be dead by the time they were 25.

Driving tired is FAR, FAR worse.
Once I was driving back from out of town, totally sober but VERY tired. I was slamming on brakes and swerving to avoid animals and other vehicles in my lane. It was horrible. I was literally hallucinating.
And these weren't the benign kind of hallucinations, the kind you know aren't real.
I should have been taken off the road immediately. It scared the carp out of me and I never drove that tired again.

If we weren't such a moralistic, judgmental and puritanical society with an enormous drug war industry lobby, we'd do the rational thing and test drivers for impairment period.
I don't give a rat's if the Thanksgiving turkey or the "Wild" variety caused your impaired driving.
It's generally none of my business as long as your driving is not impaired.

There should be a test for impairment and if you fail, you are dealt with.
I don't care if you're tired, drunk, drugged, injured, or just clumsy or too old or stupid to know which way to point the wheels.
If you're impaired, you're impaired.
If you can pass after ingesting a handful of oxy and a quart of vodka, more power to you.
Many things up the odds of an accident. Alcohol is just one and it increases the odds more than some and less than others.
Where do we draw the line with the draconian penalties.
Five years for driving with bald tires?
How about 10 years for texting while driving.
Take away the moralistic claptrap and it's all the same.
But Mothers Against Tired, Texting, Old and Klutzy Drivers just doesn't have that panache, does it?
And the lobbyists for the Tired rehab industry are notorious cheapskates.

 

[BiffRocko]

sailorman - Yes, it's called being a sociopath.

It's more narcissistic than sociopathic. APD's have no conscience. Narcissists have consciences, but they come first. (in a nut shell)

Wow it really upsets me you feel this way about Law Enforcment Officers. Being a Deputy Sheriff I pride my self in helping people not trying to hurt them.

It's not personal. Those of us who mistrust cops know there are good ones out there, but look at it from this perspective for a moment.

As a cop, you know that not everyone you pull over is a criminal, right? Yet, you still approach those situations as potentially dangerous. You're at least very wary of this person you're pulling over. They might be a criminal willing to hurt you to not get caught. It's your job though. You have to confront this person that was speeding or whatever.

Well, flip that around. We know that not every cop in uniform abuses their power, but we just don't know if YOU are one of them. When you pull us over or are out wandering around, we want to avoid you like the plague, because you have the power and we don't. If you are one of the bad ones, we're screwed. It's easier to just avoid you all.

Yours is a case were a few bad apples really have spoiled it for the bunch.

some liberal people seem to forget they are in prison for a reason

No, we just have a different opinion of what should happen once they are there. You and your ilk are all about retribution and lack of compassion. Us "liberals" don't feel that all criminals should be disregarded as unredeemable.

 

[sailorman]

i can't believe some of the posts i've read in this thread ,
people are way too liberal these days , and our country's current status shows it right now!!!

i have a relative who works an a med securuty prison in ma , most of the inmates on his watch are child molesterers and rapists, they already have way more rights than any prisoner should have (flat screen tv's ,weight rooms, basketball courts,etc)

some liberal people seem to forget they are in prison for a reason , they are crimanals!!!! they are supposed to be there for punishment and to keep them away from the public for the saftey, the saftey of the normal good people that are free.

prisoners don't deserve e-cigarettes , they don't deserve jack s!@t.......

Plenty of people who are free aren't good. Plenty of people behind bars are good.
People are not sent to prison FOR punishment. People are sent to prison AS punishment.
Big difference.

Ask your relative how he'd fare if they took away all those stupid little items like weight rooms.
I betcha' he'd be the screaming to put them back. Hopefully, they'd do it before he was killed.

Here's a deal. I'll lock you up inside a building for 20 years, but I'll let you share a flat screen, basketball court and weight room with about 500 other guys. Heck, I'll even give you food and medical care. I won't even make you work.
You can just lay around all day. But I'll tell you when & what to eat, when to sh#t, who you can and can't talk to, what you can read, see or hear. I'll read your mail and listen to your 5 minutes a week of phone calls. I'll treat you as well as any zoo animal.

You tell me if that's a vacation or some pretty serious punishment.
If you think that's a vacation, go rob a bank. What's the worse that could happen?

Sorry, you're ignorant.
Illiterate too, BTW.

Another clown who's own freedom is sooooooo valuable. But it's worthless to anyone else.
Flat screens are more valuable to those "bad" people.

Ignorance, illiteracy, and vindictiveness is such an ugly combination.

 

[prta79]

Plenty of people who are free aren't good. Plenty of people behind bars are good.
People are not sent to prison FOR punishment. People are sent to prison AS punishment.
Big difference.

Ask your relative how he'd fare if they took away all those stupid little items like weight rooms.
I betcha' he'd be the screaming to put them back. Hopefully, they'd do it before he was killed.

Here's a deal. I'll lock you up inside a building for 20 years, but I'll let you share a flat screen, basketball court and weight room with about 500 other guys. Heck, I'll even give you food and medical care. I won't even make you work.
You can just lay around all day. But I'll tell you when & what to eat, when to sh#t, who you can and can't talk to, what you can read, see or hear. I'll read your mail and listen to your 5 minutes a week of phone calls. I'll treat you as well as any zoo animal.

You tell me if that's a vacation or some pretty serious punishment.
If you think that's a vacation, go rob a bank. What's the worse that could happen?

Sorry, you're ignorant.
Illiterate too, BTW.



Another clown who's own freedom is sooooooo valuable. But it's worthless to anyone else.
Flat screens are more valuable to those "bad" people.

Ignorance, illiteracy, and vindictiveness is such an ugly combination.

so what your telling me is
a convicted child molesteror ,or ...... , deserves all these recreational things in prison and maybe more?????

no they should rot for the rest of their lives their bad people there wired wrong you just don't see it at face value ,and thats that.

ps i wasn't aware you were grading my spelling i really dropped the ball,
next time i'll try to improve just for you.

 

[NinetyNine]

so what your telling me is
a convicted child molesteror ,or ...... , deserves all these recreational things in prison and maybe more?????

no they should rot for the rest of their lives their bad people there wired wrong you just don't see it at face value ,and thats that.

ps i wasn't aware you were grading my spelling i really dropped the ball,
next time i'll try to improve just for you.

Those aren't the majority of people in prisons. The majority are low level non violent offenders. Basing your entire premise on the minority of hard-core sociopaths isn't helping your case.