E-Cigs to be banned in Uruguay.

[xybe]

Following the lead of neighboring country Brazil, the Uruguayan Ministry of Health is planning a ban on electronic cigarettes. (text is in spanish)

The reasons cited by the Minister of Health show lack of information on personal vaporizers: she stated that however small the amount, there is still nicotine present [in the e-liquids, i guess]; she also mentioned the presence of toxic ethylglycol gas in the vapor and the lack of proof that personal vaporizers work as an effective treatment for the cessation of tobacco consumption.

Following links are in Spanish.

MSP se opone al cigarrillo electrónico - Diario EL PAIS - Montevideo - Uruguay

Prohibirán en Uruguay la venta del cigarrillo electrónico - Tiempos Del Mundo - TDM.com


I find myself at a loss for words to express my frustration and disappointment at a supposedly forward-thinking government that would so easily restrict our freedoms. I don't think they know what they want to ban, much less why they are banning it.

There is no need to further explain the absurdity of the situation to the readers of this forum but I wonder if our authorities will listen to reason.

Note: English is not my first language so please excuse any readability problems this post may have.

 

[cliff5550]

Your understandable frustration came through very well.

 

[oldlady]

Do we have a list of countries that have "approved" the use of e-cigs? For example, I believe Ireland, New Zealand and the United Kingdom have said okay to the use of e-cigs.

Also a very compelling report in favor of e-cigs has been published by a doctor in Canada. Are e-cigs legal there?

It would be great to have a list, we could point to when writing to policy makers.

 

[Vocalek]

Quien sabe? (Who knows) whether your officials will listen to logic and reason any more than ours. It looks to me as if your government officials and ours have the same challenges when it comes to saying what they mean. When you say "cessation of tobacco consumption" that is exactly what you mean. Whey they say "cessation of tobacco consumption" what they really mean is "cessation of nicotine consumption."

So of course you are confused when you have found something that allowed you to stop smoking, and they want to ban it because it contains nicotine.

Duh! The reason you smoked was to get nicotine. The most effective way to get anyone who is nicotine-dependent to stop smoking is to provide an acceptable alternative source of nicotine that does not involve inhaling smoke. It is because the product contains adequate amounts of nicotine that it has an 80% success rate as a substitute for smoking. http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/quitting/6470-e-cig-success-rate.html

But you see, that isn't "good enough" in their minds. Unless the product has some magical property makes you not need nicotine any more, it isn't a "smoking cessation treatment" at all as far as they are concerned.

Switching to this product reduces your risk of smoking-related disease and death by 99%. They want to hold out for a 100% reduction by hoping that you will give up all nicotine products whatsoever. But the odds of your doing that are, at best, 1 in 10. The result is that they maintain an extra 1% of safety for 10% of the people, while 90% of the people continue to suffer terrible diseases and an early death. They have gained nothing at all and the 90% have lost everything.

 

[spradling]

This SUCKS!!!! I'm a supplier in this country!!! I'll keep you guys updated on the news.

We'll do our best to represent the e-cig community and fight this!! Class-action lawsuit against the government is imminent!

 

[PTJD]

Sorry to hear this, Good Luck Spradling!

 

[yvilla]

¡Lo siento mucho xybe y spradling!

Suerte en su lucha.

 

[oldtechno]

Uruguary? Never heard of it.

Nonetheless, I ain't gonna hold it against them. They're probably poor and don't got the ten million dollars it'd take to test this product completely.

Just the same...I think all of us should rumor to the 'women taking action' types in the good old United States "E-cigs are the fountain of youth". They'll show up on the FDA's door steps (zillions of them--everyone of them a long legged cutie) with huge white picket signs.......in bold black letters 'THE FDA SUCKS!!!'

Then, they'll burn the building down and we'll be rid of this problem.

 

[xybe]

Switching to this product reduces your risk of smoking-related disease and death by 99%. They want to hold out for a 100% reduction by hoping that you will give up all nicotine products whatsoever. But the odds of your doing that are, at best, 1 in 10. The result is that they maintain an extra 1% of safety for 10% of the people, while 90% of the people continue to suffer terrible diseases and an early death. They have gained nothing at all and the 90% have lost everything.

You have read my mind and put my thoughts into words.

I think vaping will persist in Uruguay in spite of the ban. And I fear there is little to be done. Smoking is being progressively banned here, first at enclosed spaces in government buildings or private business; later any place in any government owned facility, whether enclosed or not. For some reason the tobacco business did not stop that and they are rather big compared to a small business like spradling has (and as far as I know he is one of the three main players in the market).

A new iolite is on its way to me, and for now it is not illegal to vaporize tobacco (oh, the irony).

 

[rocketvapor]

Que pendejos..........

 

[Vocalek]

Estupidos!

 

[BriDog67]

Just curious xybe, how much does your government stand to lose in tax revenue due to reduced tobacco sales?

 

[Soon to be E]

This SUCKS!!!! I'm a supplier in this country!!! I'll keep you guys updated on the news.

We'll do our best to represent the e-cig community and fight this!! Class-action lawsuit against the government is imminent!

Paulie, thought about moving to Baires? Your ever cheating ecigsmoker neighbour Susana...

Seriously, Argentina fortunately has taken no position yet... Nicotine products such as patches and gums are sold in pharmacies but over the counter. I hope they stay like that. But they can´t forbid mail orders, and many ecig smokers and sellers will go underground... I hope this reverts somehow, because going on holidays will mean hauling tons of equipment otherwise...

 

[xybe]

Just curious xybe, how much does your government stand to lose in tax revenue due to reduced tobacco sales?

No idea but I don´t think they have that in mind. The president is an oncologist and he truly believes that he is doing this for our own good. IMNSHO he is acting as an well intentioned, ignorant despot. It doesn't help that the Ministry of Health is only providing him with the FDA´s party line on the matter.

 

[JohnnyVapor]

No idea but I don´t think they have that in mind. The president is an oncologist and he truly believes that he is doing this for our own good.

Isn't there a quote about that? Something along the lines of "The worst sort of despotism is when they're looking out for your best interests"?

Xybe, I'm sure Uruguay is a beautiful place, but maybe it might be time to move.

 

[xybe]

[...]Xybe, I'm sure Uruguay is a beautiful place, but maybe it might be time to move.

New Zeland is looking OK right now, maybe the UK or Canada? My wife is Brazilian but no point in moving there since there is a ban in place in Brazil as well.

 

[spradling]

The reasons cited by the Minister of Health show lack of information on personal vaporizers: she stated that however small the amount, there is still nicotine present [in the e-liquids, i guess]; she also mentioned the presence of toxic ethylglycol gas in the vapor and the lack of proof that personal vaporizers work as an effective treatment for the cessation of tobacco consumption.

Exactly!! The phrase she uses "the amounts of nic are low, but it's still there" was taken directly from the FDA's comment on their finding of small amounts of nicotine in carts labeled 0nic. She uses this phrase against ecigs in general, they're supposed to have nicotine! They don't even have a valid argument, that's a bull**** phrase!!

She then mentions DEG, but DEG is not a component on ALL ecigs, this is not a reason to ban them, it's a reason to regulate the safety of the products being sold. You don't ban all toys because lead was found in some coming from China!

And then she says it's not proven to be an effective treatment against addiction, it's not meant for that you idiots! Plus you don't ban a product because it's not proven to be effective for cessation, even if it's promoted as such, you disprove it first and then ban it for false advertising, but there's no advertising here.

And come on!! The patch and gum are less than 5% effective, and Champix, while more effective, has more than 100 cases of suicides and more than 100 cases of suicide intention, and this is allowed!

And just because it's not proven to be effective doesn't mean it isn't, do the fracking test already! I have a huge client list all ready for you if you want some evidence, people already using it for months, and I have kits available for you to test yourself if you want too!

Switching to this product reduces your risk of smoking-related disease and death by 99%. They want to hold out for a 100% reduction by hoping that you will give up all nicotine products whatsoever. But the odds of your doing that are, at best, 1 in 10. The result is that they maintain an extra 1% of safety for 10% of the people, while 90% of the people continue to suffer terrible diseases and an early death. They have gained nothing at all and the 90% have lost everything.

Thanks for that, I'll keep it in mind

Sorry to hear this, Good Luck Spradling!

¡Lo siento mucho xybe y spradling!

Suerte en su lucha.

Gracias! Thank you guys for your support!

Just curious xybe, how much does your government stand to lose in tax revenue due to reduced tobacco sales?

Don't know, cigs are $3 here, not insanely high as in the states and europe but not tax or almost tax-free cigs for $1-1.5, they do actually get a bunch from these taxes I think even though they're not as high as other places. They've been rising higher and higher for a few years, they used to cost $1 a pack, now it's trippled to $3 a pack.
I think there is a high % of smoker population compared to other countries.

Paulie, thought about moving to Baires? Your ever cheating ecigsmoker neighbour Susana...

LOL, hi Susana!! Actually, if I can't revert this law in the short term I'm definitely moving to BsAs! I have to continue the business some how. If I can't get my importations through and/or have problems with the law for selling them I'll just move my "base" to Argentina and have shipping to Uruguay for my customers here LOL, and in the process have less costs, importation taxes are way to high here. And I'll be much closer to my "other" customers

No idea but I don´t think they have that in mind. The president is an oncologist and he truly believes that he is doing this for our own good. IMNSHO he is acting as an well intentioned, ignorant despot. It doesn't help that the Ministry of Health is only providing him with the FDA´s party line on the matter.

Disagree and agree.
I disagree he believes he is doing this for our own good, he is not an ignorant person for this issue in particular, he is a Doctor, a cancer doctor nonetheless, if he studied this topic there is no way he couldn't have reached the obvious conclusion that this is less dangerous than tobacco. I think he had pressure from somewhere else.
I agree the Health Ministry is being a ..... and not providing him with the sufficient information, they don't even know what they're talking about.

Xybe, I'm sure Uruguay is a beautiful place, but maybe it might be time to move.

Uruguay truly is beautiful, no reason to move because of this, the use of ecigs is still legal and you can get supplies from international suppliers.

 

[spradling]

Well, the damned law has passed, the President and ALL of the Ministers (Industry, Economy, etc) have signed it, seems he didn't want to be alone with this, only his signature is required.

It's still legal to sell for a few more days until the law is officially published. We'll see what happens after, if I'm able to get my orders through customs and selling with no problem or not.

I'm speaking with lawyers, we will commence a lawsuit against this law, I will keep you guys updated on the progress.

Since a lawsuit against a law can take a long time we will be also be commencing a "Amparo" which is a much shorter/faster lawsuit that can only be done in the case the long wait of the regular lawsuit can be dangerous (in this case to eh health of thousands).

Here's a copy of the law banning ecigs signed by the President yesterday: MSP Decretoe Cigarro Electronico BMH

 

[xybe]

Paul, glad to see that you are fighting for your rights and your customers'. I believe that the term for "Amparo" in English is safe-haven.

 

[xybe]

Paul, I know you understand this but I am clarifying this for the non Uruguayans here, the ban was issued by a decree, not a law.

If I am reading this text correctly e-cigs were banned because they were not proved to help stop smoking which is preposterous and because they might be causing children to smoke (the latter is, of course, utterly unsubstantiated).