e-liquid & being arrested/car searched etc

[Kevor]

Well, I’m no expert. But i am taking criminal justice. At least in the state of Georgia.. (other states may be different) In order for a police officer to be able to search your vehicle they need probable cause.

That’s without the driver giving consent.. If he does search your vehicle without consent and PC that case can and will most likely get the police officer in serious trouble with the court system and can have the case thrown out. (at least in georgia)

Now just because the police offer may think you're smoking illegal drugs is not enough to constitute PC. it has to be beyond reasonable doubt that a person is breaking the law to be PC. And just because your blowing out what looks like smoke from a metal device that looks like a cig or pen is just reasonable suspicion and therefore not PC.

Plus on top of that the police officer has to stop you for a legal reason to even pull you over in the first place.. There not suppose to be pulling over every joe blow they think is committing a crime.. If that were the case they'd have to have the whole police force and then some pulling everyone over..

Some police officers also like to scare people into giving them consent to search if they don't have PC either.. That makes the police officers job alot easier incase they do make big mistakes.. Then they can just say the person gave them permission to search and they didn't find anything..

Now my info comes from my teacher who was a Gwinnett County, Georgia police officer for 20 years.. Laws do also change, but innless I missed something that one still remains the same..

Oh and also they can use a drug dog to gain PC to search your car as well but then the whole point will become moot when the dog doesn't find anything. That is if you dont have illegal drugs in the car. lol Plus like posted above they can also test it in a drug kit to find out that way.

If they do test it in a drug kit just hope the kit isn't faulty or there is anything in the juice that may give a false positive.. That would suck. lol

I'm not sure about drug kit testing because I’ve just started e-cigs like today and have no juice.. I think this may be very interesting to bring up to my teacher in a week when i go back to classes..

 

[Kevor]

I also wanted to add, because i don't know how to edit yet..

Always keep your cool, and don't have any attitude when dealing with the police.. If your nice and are not acting weird or jittery that can make the whole experience when dealing with them much more positive..

Plus you never know.. Once you explane to them what the VP is and how it works they may be converted as well if they smoke, or even convert members of their family..

 

[zgsp]

Oh and also they can use a drug dog to gain PC to search your car as well but then the whole point will become moot when the dog doesn't find anything. That is if you dont have illegal drugs in the car. lol Plus like posted above they can also test it in a drug kit to find out that way.

They are using the drug dogs almost on a routine basis now. The problem with this is there is no objective way to contest the fact that the dog "alerted". You can't cross-examine the dog later.

Consider this Georgia case:

oops, I can't post links. Google "DWI, Driving With Infringing (DVDs)?" and choose the first link.

(the pdf link to the ruling is at the very top of the above article)

The police targeted the person, waiting for him to commit a traffic violation (if you follow anyone long enough, they will make a driving mistake).

Then they brought out a drug dog which they say alerted. This led to a search of the car and later the guy's home too. The police say there was drug shake found but none was collected. The guy says he bought the car new and there was never drugs in the car ever.

So, the guy wasn't charged for any drug violation, but for other things in his car and home (alleged counterfeit DVDs).

The morale of this story is if the police want to search your car and home, they will construct the PC. If you drive -- make any mistake and that is enough to bring out the drug dog (they will always say he altered) and then check your car and home for anything, even unrelated to drugs. If you drive, make sure your car and home is free of anything that could be in violation of the law.

 

[happily]

I wouldn't lose any sleep over it................but probable cause is easy to establish after the fact.

 

[Kevor]

They are using the drug dogs almost on a routine basis now. The problem with this is there is no objective way to contest the fact that the dog "alerted". You can't cross-examine the dog later.

Consider this Georgia case:

oops, I can't post links. Google "DWI, Driving With Infringing (DVDs)?" and choose the first link.

(the pdf link to the ruling is at the very top of the above article)

The police targeted the person, waiting for him to commit a traffic violation (if you follow anyone long enough, they will make a driving mistake).

Then they brought out a drug dog which they say alerted. This led to a search of the car and later the guy's home too. The police say there was drug shake found but none was collected. The guy says he bought the car new and there was never drugs in the car ever.

So, the guy wasn't charged for any drug violation, but for other things in his car and home (alleged counterfeit DVDs).

The morale of this story is if the police want to search your car and home, they will construct the PC. If you drive -- make any mistake and that is enough to bring out the drug dog (they will always say he altered) and then check your car and home for anything, even unrelated to drugs. If you drive, make sure your car and home is free of anything that could be in violation of the law.

Well as far as searching his house.. They better of had a warrant signed by a judge.. As far as i know now in order to search someone home you either need their permission or a warrant.. Simple PC alone can not let a police officer in the state of GA search a person's house..

In fact my teacher told me a story of a rookie that did something similar to
that..

The rookie cop of gwinnett county was watching alot of people walk in and out of this one motel room.. The officer finally went up to the door knocked and pushed his way in.. Walked to the bathroom and found like 1/4 of an oz of pot in a bag beside the toilet.. he then arrested the 3 guys that were in the room.. No warrants, no waiting for permission, nothing..

Later my teacher, who was his supervisor, asked him what his PC was for even going up to the door and knocking..

The rookie said.. "Come on, you know they have got to have been selling drugs.."

My teacher said.. "hell, no you don't know that, they could of been having a business meeting or something.."

Then in turn, my teacher had the rookie release the guys from jail and saying sorry every 5 seconds so gwinnett county wouldn't be sued..

So in turn yes, there are loop holes, but then again i bet with the right lawyer, you could argue that the dog could of made a mistake because dogs are not perfect either.. Better then humans sometimes, but they make mistakes too..

But most of us do not have that kind of money so that may just be moot all together.. lol

And yes, police can lie about what they found to try to get to the truth of an investigation, but in court they have to have the evidence of what they found anyway..

Plus, personally i'm an a bit obsessive and every time a cop gets behind me i make sure i drive the speed limit, use my turn signals, everything..

Most of the time the cop gets tired of me going the speed limit (going slow for him) and passes me. LOL

Heck, a month ago i was in the car while my friend was driving and a douglasville county sheriff was behind us.. He stayed at the speed limit..

The cop didn't care for that too much so he threw up his blue lights.. Passed on a double yellow while almsot running into on coming traffic, got back over and flipped his lights off again and kept on going like nothing ever happend..

So really it just depends on the officer in the end..

I have had my car searched before.. Well my mothers car.. (i was 17) There have a cath tube in the car. (my mother was in an accident and her bladder does not work right anymore) They took it out and looked at me funny and asked "whats this." I told them and they just searched some more and finally gave up and let me go.. lol

All of this because they saw me using a pay phone at 6 in the morning in what they considered a drug area.. This was before cell phones so pagers were popular..

It was my girl friend i was calling on my way home from work after she paged me 500 times.. LOL

 

[tbremer]

like was posted, there are loop holes that cops know to get what they want. its all a matter if theyre really interested or not. if you seem like a respectful upstanding citizen they *should* not have a problem. if you seem nervous they may be more inclined to mess with you. if you say "look idiot, its totally legal" and then proceed to blow a puff of vapor in their face, expect to get messed with. ive dealt with cops in a less than kosher situation (not me in trouble, but close friends and/or family) and they were dicks until i started talking calm and respectfully then they quickly changed thier attitudes towards. then again i dont live in a big town (about 30-50k people) and dont even have so much as a parking ticket. all my run ins with the cops seems like they pretty much give show the same respect that i show them, but like i said ive never dealt with cops when im the one in trouble.

with that being said, if i were to get pulled over and the cops wanted to search my vehicle, even if i had NOTHING to hide and no where to be, I would still tell them no.

 

[mnealtx]

There was a post awhile back (in feb I think?) where a person posted that he got pulled over because of the cop seeing him use his ecig and then spent the next two hours on the side of the road while the cop searching his car.

"Why, no, officer...you *can't* take a quick look around my vehicle, thank you..."

 

[Antebellum]

Having been a paramedic in one city and one small town in Georgia, I worked often with the police and sheriff's departments. I didn't know any of them that went out in the morning for the purpose of ruining some innocent person's day, but I can also say I've seen plenty of stupidity on the public's part. Things like going by the cop with the car reeking of marijuana smoke - ridiculous, but it happens and happens often. The next most stupid thing is having obvious minor violations - tail lights that don't work and expired tags. That's like a glowing neon sign - stop me and see what else I have!

Cops like to be treated with respect just like any other human. If you get stopped, roll your window down, turn off the engine, and put your hands in plain sight. The officer should tell you what the problem is very quickly. Be courteous. If it's something minor you can fix, thank the officer and promise to GET it fixed.

If you attracted his attention by vaping, disassemble the device and show it to him. Tell him that you're using it instead of smoking cigarettes. Offer to show him your kit. Then give him the card of your favorite supplier. (I carry factory-sealed carts only with me in the car, so I shouldn't even have a question about juice.)

That said, I'm bald and drive an old man's car - a Lincoln Mk 7 - and I usually drive it LIKE an old man. I'm convinced that cops look right through this car. By its nature, it does not attract their attention.

 

[tims]

When the cop picks it up cover your head, and say oh man what ever you do don't drop that.

 

[Ladycats]

When the cop picks it up cover your head, and say oh man what ever you do don't drop that.

lol made me laugh !

 

[virtuetovice]

I'm sure that, even if they were suspicious your ecig was being used for drugs[besides nicotine], they would do a field test. I'm not sure of the laws where you live, but in a lot of places they have to do a field test to legally confiscate or arrest you for possession.

 

[Phil River]

So, I have a random question (that I am sure has been answered before.)(Oh, and its most likely a stupid question, but I am a stupid person, so I'm going to ask anyway!! )

Let's say, I have my e-cig(s)/screwdrivers and/or whatever, with a bottle or two of e-liquid.

What if I got pulled over for (insert reason here), and the cops questioned this "device", and the bottle of liquid I had in purse.

You think it would get confiscated or take me to the station?? lol

I don't know. I'm just watching COPS so I was wondering.

Some options:

1- Tell them to drink it to check it out themselves
2- Tell them the e-cig is a Zip Gun

Just kidding, just watch this educational video and you're good to go:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj0mtxXEGE8

 

[malyden]

Awhile back when I first started vaping, I was driving home and vaping. Well there was this yellow light that I "thought" I could make it thru but of course it turned red and I got pulled over. Now I know the cop saw me vaping while running thru the red light I imediately pulled over, put my PV down, and put my hands on the steering wheel. The cop came and took a very deep breath when I rolled my window down lol and then proceeded to give me a warning. I know he must have been wondering what it was that I had been smoking but since he didn't ask I didn't tell.
Just goes to show you never know.

 

[rustylug]

When the cop picks it up cover your head, and say oh man what ever you do don't drop that.

Lol....Now Thats Funny ....You could then say "If you do it wil cost you £9 for a new AUTOMISER" ..Then have a look at the look on his face ....He will prob think is somthing from Startrek hahahahaha

 

[jburns]

Well, I’m no expert. But i am taking criminal justice. At least in the state of Georgia.. (other states may be different) In order for a police officer to be able to search your vehicle they need probable cause.

Now just because the police offer may think you're smoking illegal drugs is not enough to constitute PC. it has to be beyond reasonable doubt that a person is breaking the law to be PC.

Be careful giving out legal advice you might get someone in trouble. The bolded part above is not true in any state. "Beyond a reasonable doubt" is the requirement for conviction. The requirement for a search and arrest is considerably less.

Probable cause is just a reasonable belief that a person has committed a crime. The test the court of appeals employs to determine whether probable cause existed for purposes of arrest is whether facts and circumstances within the officer's knowledge are sufficient to warrant a prudent person to believe a suspect has committed, is committing, or is about to commit a crime. U.S. v. Puerta, 982 F.2d 1297, 1300 (9th Cir. 1992). In terms of seizure of items, probable cause merely requires that the facts available to the officer warrants a "man of reasonable caution" to conclude that certain items may be contraband or stolen property or useful as evidence of a crime. U.S. v. Dunn, 946 F.2d 615, 619 (9th Cir. 1991), cert. Denied, 112 S. Ct. 401 (1992).

http://www.lectlaw.com/def2/p089.htm

 

[Kevor]

Be careful giving out legal advice you might get someone in trouble. The bolded part above is not true in any state. "Beyond a reasonable doubt" is the requirement for conviction. The requirement for a search and arrest is considerably less.

Probable cause is just a reasonable belief that a person has committed a crime. The test the court of appeals employs to determine whether probable cause existed for purposes of arrest is whether facts and circumstances within the officer's knowledge are sufficient to warrant a prudent person to believe a suspect has committed, is committing, or is about to commit a crime. U.S. v. Puerta, 982 F.2d 1297, 1300 (9th Cir. 1992). In terms of seizure of items, probable cause merely requires that the facts available to the officer warrants a "man of reasonable caution" to conclude that certain items may be contraband or stolen property or useful as evidence of a crime. U.S. v. Dunn, 946 F.2d 615, 619 (9th Cir. 1991), cert. Denied, 112 S. Ct. 401 (1992).

(sorry had to take the link out of quote because it wouldn't let me post)

And if you go back and READ what i posted i said i was NO EXPERT and this information came from my TEACHER who was a Gwinnett County Officer for 20 years.. Plus i also said that this MAY not Apply in EVERY STATE because different states have different laws, and my teacher only really would teach us laws that applied to the state of Georgia since we lived in Georgia and more importantly were taking his class in Georgia..

Plus, giving advice is not the same thing as giving legal council. All a person would have to do is double check if this was correct.. Sorry, but,you don’t have to be my mommy or daddy and spank me. I was simply stating was told, by a teacher of criminal justice of the state of georgia..

And he drilled in our heads that the police in Georgia needed PC to make an arrest.. So take that as you will, thanks..


They can't just arrest you for carrying surger in a bag because they think its drugs, they have to be sure of that.. Just because surger looks like a drug isn't enough.. Thats why they have drug kits.. If the kit gives a positive, then thats their PC to make the arrest..

 

[ProStreet]

I work with the PD here in phoenix on a daily basis and the officers have told me that it would give them probable cause to look in your vehicle or to call out a drug sniffing dog. Its all the way they word their discovery of your E-Cig and what they think your smoking out of it. Normally you would have no issue what soever but recently people in this area have started creating there own vape using marijuana as a base. The more this occurs the more we will be harrased.

DING DING DING WE HAVE A WINNER!

Liquid THC anyone? I will say no more.

 

[Kevor]

I was also thinking the same thing about a liquid crack.. Lol

I just would like to see if someone could use a drug test kit on the nicotine liquid and see if it passes..

I'm guessing it should, in less there is something in the vape juice that causes it to fail a drug kit test.. If so we are in trouble.. 8-o

But then again, you'd have to test more then just one brand, inless they use all the same chemicals down to the letter..

 

[dopple]

you have no idea how many people ask me, after i show them about it, if you can smoke pot out of it... its really annoying and pathetic

 

[Kate51]

So, I have a random question (that I am sure has been answered before.)(Oh, and its most likely a stupid question, but I am a stupid person, so I'm going to ask anyway!! )

Let's say, I have my e-cig(s)/screwdrivers and/or whatever, with a bottle or two of e-liquid.

What if I got pulled over for (insert reason here), and the cops questioned this "device", and the bottle of liquid I had in purse.

You think it would get confiscated or take me to the station?? lol

I don't know. I'm just watching COPS so I was wondering.

Take this from someone who knows a little about cops...they know what e-cigs are! Trust me. More than likely you'll get one who's anti-smoking, LOL. If they confiscate anything, it will more than likely be for something more than a strange apparatus on your front seat or in your purse, which of course they won't see if they're just following you, get my drift? Don't hide anything, just tell the truth, the truth shall set thee free. Their Test kits don't normally include one for nicotine, unless you're only 11. WIS(If they're gonna look in your purse, you've done something a little suspicious...!) The only reason one can confiscate any item within your car is if they fear for their life or yours, so don't make any sudden moves, ok?