ECF Newsletter - FDA Considering Ban on Online Ecig Sales

[Topwater Elvis]

It really doesn't have anything to do with kids, they are just being used as a pawns in another anti whatever campaign.
It isn't about flavors or nicotine either.



It isn't just California, 45 other states are in a similar situation.

All has been dumped into the FDA's hands to find a solution, whether that solution makes sense to anyone is irrelevant.

 

[DaveP]

Whether or not that statement is true, the Young Folks are giving them the ammunition .. as a Semi-Libertarian, I say, let the Kids vape away .. since we all agree it's relatively safe, right .. ?? .. and, who knows, it could be a solution to the Ritalin / Adderall Epidemic that no one seems to decry ..

Agree. We all know that making alcohol illegal for teenagers in our era didn't keep the teenagers from enjoying their weekends. Where there's a will there's a way.

 

[englishmick]

Have you been living under a rock? You've been around here long enough to know that the FDA is protecting the financial interests of BT and BP. All of the FDA directors in the last decade have a past with either BT or BP. A huge percentage of the FDA's operating budget comes from BT and BP. The FDA is not about to cut off the hand that feeds them. The vaping industry contributes nothing financially to the FDA, so they are not all that interested in keeping keeping it solvent.


Those lobbyists for BT have been very clever in influencing the FDA so that future regulations will favor the products offered by BT. "Closed system" e-cigarettes like Blu and Vuse. BT will dominate as the only source for all liquid nicotine.

The only place where I would question this is in the role of BP. BT are big, but still a tadpole compared to BP. Their interests are not necessarily aligned. BT would presumably like vaping restricted to closed pod systems. BP stand to make a lot of money from nicotine, which would work better if vaping was went away altogether.

Now the FDA are aiming their guns at pods which is BT's area of interest. Could it be that BP have started to throw their weight around?

 

[bnrkwest]

Have you been living under a rock? You've been around here long enough to know that the FDA is protecting the financial interests of BT and BP. All of the FDA directors in the last decade have a past with either BT or BP. A huge percentage of the FDA's operating budget comes from BT and BP. The FDA is not about to cut off the hand that feeds them. The vaping industry contributes nothing financially to the FDA, so they are not all that interested in keeping keeping it solvent.


Those lobbyists for BT have been very clever in influencing the FDA so that future regulations will favor the products offered by BT. "Closed system" e-cigarettes like Blu and Vuse. BT will dominate as the only source for all liquid nicotine.

LOL no not a rock, been around a long time, but I did think once BT got in the ecig vape game they would have some influence because as you say BT has the $'s to influence FDA and their tobacco sales are down and vape sales are up, so what gives. If FDA really loves BT, vaping should be around forever. My other question is, it is legal to outlaw all vape products except BT products? I see law suits there.

 

[Baditude]

The only place where I would question this is in the role of BP. BT are big, but still a tadpole compared to BP. Their interests are not necessarily aligned. BT would presumably like vaping restricted to closed pod systems. BP stand to make a lot of money from nicotine, which would work better if vaping was went away altogether.

Now the FDA are aiming their guns at pods which is BT's area of interest. Could it be that BP have started to throw their weight around?

Only a few BT companies are participating in the e-cig trade. The vast majority are still focused on leaf tobacco products. So there is a bit of BT in-fighting going on behind the scene.

In reality, BP is in the business of TREATING diseases, not CURING them. Cured patients don't provide a steady consistant stream of customers. So getting rid of vaping is in their best interests in the long term because vaping is healthier than smoking.

 

[Baditude]

My other question is, it is legal to outlaw all vape products except BT products? I see law suits there.

The FDA has the authority to regulate certain e-cigs out of existance if they see fit. BT (and probably the FDA) favors "closed system" ecigs, so that may be the only product available to us in the future. Therefore, not an outright ban. That way they can control the nicotine and flavors available so end users can't "tamper" with their product. Most of us are currently using "open systems", and they may soon be a thing of the past. This is why many of us have been stocking up on tanks and coils, or getting into rebuildables.

Anybody can sue anybody. A huge lawsuit could take years and years to come to a decision, and there's no guarantee that decision will be in the favor of vapers. In the meantime, what do you do? WHAT will you do? Prepare for the worse case scenario the best that you can.

 

[englishmick]

Only a few BT companies are participating in the e-cig trade. The vast majority are still focused on leaf tobacco products. So there is a bit of BT in-fighting going on behind the scene.

In reality, BP is in the business of TREATING diseases, not CURING them. Cured patients don't provide a steady consistant stream of customers. So getting rid of vaping is in their best interests in the long term because vaping is healthier than smoking.

True. But they have probably already lost some of their smoking "cessation" revenue stream due to vaping. And the big potential pot of gold nicotine as an Alzheimer's treatment. And that's not a cure. If it works the entire population might want to take nicotine for decades to keep Alz at bay, which is a perfect scenario for BP. Of course that's speculation so far but I'm sure they have been looking at it. Maybe they already know.

 

[Baditude]

True. But they have probably already lost some of their smoking "cessation" revenue stream due to vaping. And the big potential pot of gold nicotine as an Alzheimer's treatment.

This makes me think of Cannabidiol (CBD). This is used by some people with chronic pain. CBD oil may reduce pain, inflammation, and overall discomfort related to a variety of health conditions. It will probably play a huge factor in treating the opiate crisis. CBD oil is a product made from cannabis. It's a type of cannabinoid, a chemical found naturally in marijuana and hemp plants.

Cannabis is still a Schedule I drug according to the federal government, so testing it for effectiveness for medical issues has been limited because of legality. I find it interesting that the US government holds the patent for cannabis.

Sorry mods for bringing the topic up. The filters on the server blocked out the word, so please don't ban me. Delete this post if necessary.

 

[rosesense]

The FDA has the authority to regulate certain e-cigs out of existance if they see fit. BT favors "closed system" ecigs, so that may be the only product available to us in the future. Therefore, not an outright ban. That way they can control the nicotine and flavors available so consumers can't "tamper" with their product. Most of us are currently using "open systems", and they may soon be a thing of the past. This is why many of us have been stocking up on tanks and coils, or getting into rebuildables.

Anybody can sue anybody. A huge lawsuit could take years and years to come to a decision, and there's no guarantee that decision will be in the favor of vapers. In the meantime, what do you do? WHAT will you do? Prepare for the worse case scenario the best that you can.

So true about lawsuits and government agencies are not too concerned about lawsuits because
1. They don't pay attorney fees as they are represented by AAG's
2. It isn't their money at stake, even if they lose (will be taxpayer dollars footing the bill).

 

[bnrkwest]

It would be nice if these Gov agencies worked to actually help citizens rather than big biz. I don't buy the concerned about teens approach FDA is taking. If they cared about health they would not allow Round Up in Cheerios being eaten by young children. It just seems to be a big scam.

 

[bnrkwest]

This makes me think of Cannabidiol (...). This is used by some people with chronic pain. ... oil may reduce pain, inflammation, and overall discomfort related to a variety of health conditions. It will probably play a huge factor in treating the opiate crisis. ... oil is a product made from ......... It's a type of cannabinoid, a chemical found naturally in ......... and hemp plants.

........ is still a Schedule I drug according to the federal government, so testing it for effectiveness for medical issues has been limited because of legality. Interesting that the US government holds the patent for .........

Sorry mods for bringing the topic up. The filters on the server blocked out the word, so please don't ban me. Delete this post if necessary.

I have chronic bursitis that I treat with this. I can't take NSAIDS continuously without other issues, like ulcers popping up, so the other treatment helps along with other natural spice and herbs (turmeric, black pepper, boswellia, etc).

 

[untar]

natural spice and herbs (turmeric, black pepper, boswellia, etc)

Great, now I'm hungry thx a lot...

 

[Lufty]

Banning online sales will just make more kids go underground(assuming their really are hords of kids vaping), making mech mods in their garage, using fence wire as coils, and ordering sketchy vape juice from shady vendors or soaking cigarettes in oil ti make it. It wont stop anything itll just make things more dangerous.

 

[stols001]

What is being publicized is the tip of the iceberg. I was on the CDC website looking at fact sheets for oh, relevant to my future job things and apart from learning a lot of stuff I did not care to learn along the way, there were a TON of entries on ecigs, especially directed at parents, naming the Juul with pictures of it, how to determine if your child's USB thing is actually an e-cig the dangers of second hand vape.

I mean this is really THE US website for "health and safety" I mean there were even entries on flavoring dangers, and poly glycol.

I couldn't get through all of it, although I am still glad I paused to read about how like, you could catch heartworm from your dog via mosquitoes and it could end up in your testicles. Yes.

So my fairly cursory look, well, there's a lot of this stuff already "in place" and well I refuse to return to that website for a while, but it really brought home how some of these agencies are connected and the directions they want to be heading. There was certainly tons more stuff about the dangers of smoking, but really enough vape stuff to make me sit up and take notice.

I have nic, I have NO clue how all this will turn out other than I will keep vaping, but you know, it saddens me I have to do it for one, and for two, prohibition is so.... It's just so unfortunate.

No one in politics is gonna go after alcohol at this point. They already tried it and alcohol one. Hopefully the same holds true for vaping, but again, I am pretty uncertain at this point.

Anna

 

[rosesense]

A county in GA gas declared war on vaping and says it will prosecute teens caught with vape items. Wonder how this will play out.

 

[jandrew]

A county in GA gas declared war on vaping and says it will prosecute teens caught with vape items. Wonder how this will play out.

Ah yes, and they'll probably have them tried as adults without any inkling of irony.

 

[Ceejay0875]

Can see it now...some poor twenty or thirty something in the future at a job interview trying to explain away their criminal record..."yeah, I got caught vaping when I was 16..."

 

[Big Me]

Dear god.. This is bull..... No way its gonna happen. Gottlieb is a total puppet and is obviously a pawn of big tobacco...

Try a pawn of Big Pharma, they've got much more to lose.

 

[untar]

Yeah, Dimitri showed some statistics on his livestream recently and tobacco revenue has grown steadily over the last decade. Vaping seemingly didn't even make a dent in it. They don't care who they sell their nicotine to, we all are still paying their bills.

 

[billthetroll]

What i find kinda ironic about all this is you can still to this day find those old school candy cigs that some of us use to play with as kids that people thought was ok.if they really care about kids they'd pull those to start off with.I also find it ironic that most of the people that are governed to "find a solution" to this vaping thing is in a kinda win win situation.big tobacco owns most of the biggest selling devices on the market (fda's words not mine) I'd bet a dollar to a donut they try and mess this up.why wasn't smok, tesla, wismec among the companys invited to help with all this, I'm sure they'll say because they're not in America.soon we'll be going to the local Vape b&m buying nothing but av mods and purge for 300$ a pop.