EcigExpress's Tobacco Express Flavors & diacetyl or diketones

[Trayce]

I just had an eye-opening chat with EcigExpress. Their line of tobacco flavors is packaged as tobacco Express on their site. The tobacco Express line contains many yummy-looking flavors. I ordered the DJ RUM flavor (like the Djarum cigarette), but after the order shipped, I saw the flavor was "from China." That was shock #1. I personally don't trust my lungs to China, but hoped that at least they were using a supplier that is verified as diacetyl and diketone free. While I wouldn't buy a flavor from China again, I might vape the one I already ordered, if it did not contain these chems.

So I started a support chat on their website to ask if the Tobacco Express flavors that come from China are diacetyl and diketone-free. Here is a copy of that chat:

ecigExpress Customer Service: Hello [...]. I am happy to help you with this. No, these flavors may contain diketone and diacetyl is [sic] very small amounts.

ME: ALL Tobacco Express flavors?

ecigExpress Customer Service: We do not have any detailed testing information relating to diketone and diacetyl on these products, so unfortunately, even if some or most are diketone and diacetyl free, we could not say for sure.

ME: Thanks for your honesty, but why is there no warning on these flavors like on other pages that contain these chems?

ecigExpress Customer Service: Well, since we have not done specific testing we do not know for sure. The flavors that we know for sure have diketone and diacetyl will be marked with the red triangle.

ME: Seems vapers would like to know "there MAY be diketones or diacytal present in this flavor as no testing is available" I would not have purchased the flavor, had I known. I only noticed it was from China after it shipped. I would encourage ecigexpress to find US-sourced flavors with reliable testing as our health might very well depend on this.

ecigExpress Customer Service: We have requested the information from the manufacturer. We are still waiting for it to come in ut [sic] we will hopefully have it soon. Thanks for the input I will pass this on for sure.

ME: Great to know you have requested the info. Will this info be made available on the site once received? I'll watch for it, if so.

ecigExpress Customer Service: Yes, for sure.

ME: Is the Tobacco Express "Full FlavorTobacco" flavoring which is from US, diketone & diacetyl free?

ecigExpress Customer Service: I am not sure.

ME: Again, I truly appreciate your honesty but the answers I am getting are disappointing. EcigX is held in high regard. Thank you for your time.

ecigExpress Customer Service: You are welcome.

ME: Bye -------- END CHAT

When I Googled "Tobacco Express +diacetyl or diketones" the previous night I got a lot of cached pages mentioning Tobacco Express flavors like VA Tobacco and Black & Mile that had language in the link blurb (which were links to the ecigexpress flavor page) that looked like it indicated the flavor contained diacetyl or diketones... however link blurbs can be misleading as they can contain language from different paragraphs and parts of a page... but when I clicked on the links, there was no such language on the pages. That makes it appear as if there was likely language like that at some point that was later removed... maybe b/c ECX was only assuming the flavors contained these chems, or for all I know the flavors were sourced from a different place at the time the pages were cached.

But to not even know if their current US supplier [for the Full Flavor Tobacco flavoring] is diketone and diacetyl free? At this stage of the game??

I am not a 'sky is falling' person, but do want to avoid known risks when possible. I expected more out of ecigexpress. When they clearly mark flavors that they know contain diacetyl or diketones as having them, the average shopper will assume flavors without the warning are diacetyl and diketone free. Like on TFA's site.

I placed my first order with ECX last week, but it might be my last. My opinion of them has plummeted (though I do applaud their honesty)... but I can't help but draw the conclusion that the company ethos places customers' welfare a great distance behind profit. While that's probably true and expected of most commerce, the vaping community kind of expects more from fellow vapers that start companies to serve the vaping community.

I hope they will make efforts to find good US suppliers that provide proof the liquid they are selling meets current preferred standards, showing they DO value their customers' and aren't only interested in profit to the exclusion of all else. B/c both can be done. They don't have to be mutually exclusive. All JMO.

 

[Trayce]

I hate to bump my own post, but wasn't ANYONE surprised by this??? That ecigexpress's own Tobacco Express brand (some flavors from China, some USA) are untested and likely contain diacetyl... that this late in the game they didn't even bother to find DAP-free flavors?

Not to mention that for some flavors (of OTHER brands) they note the flavor has diacetyl... but for others they don't. (Like I bought Capella Pumpkin Pie Spice thinking it must be DAP free since there was no warning... then learned on CAP's site afterward it DOES contain diacetyl and is presently being re-formulated.) Another flavor that went straight to the kitchen.

Ecigexpress seems to be really uncaring and I am surprised they are such a popular vendor with vapors, knowing this. They have certainly lost my business until/unless they show some responsibility for the products they are selling, ESPECIALLY their own line!

 

[Jimi D.]

No.. Not really. I used to be a smoker. I knew it was cancerous. Diketones don't scare me, and Chinese flavoring compounds don't bother me as well. I switched to vaping because smoking had me coughing all night long. Since vaping that has stopped. I know vaping is not health food. But I sure feel better getting my nic this way.

 

[mgmrick]

So tired of these threads.........

I erased what I wanted to say.... nobody said vaping was safe. And our government agency says smoking is not safe... I am at the point I don't trust our government either

 

[sketchness]

I have ingested God knows what once upon a time. It is a non-issue for me. It is really about harm reduction. Vaping is the only thing that has ever stopped me from waking up and needing a cigarette. Is it safe, nope. There are bound to be some flavors that are problematic after some research is done. Chances are that some of these will be completely free of the big three that everyone seems so concerned about right now. But there is also some promising early studies that point to how much better it is than smoking. Time will tell.

And by all means choose who you wish to do business with. Free market and all spend where you feel comfortable. Finally I am fairly certain ECX makes very little of there own products. They are simply repackaged from other sources. I could be wrong but that is my intuition.

 

[Trayce]

Not a single one of the answers here addressed the point. You may not personally care about vaping diacetyl or diketones or AP, but as a vendor of liquids ecigexpress is certainly aware there is concern about these specific chemicals and even vendors unaffiliated with the vaping industry like TFA have made efforts to formulate flavors without these chemicals.

As a customer it is your right not to care if you vape this stuff.

As a vendor it's irresponsible, in my view, to not even bother to have DAP-free flavors in your own product line.

Sort of like... if you want to drive unsafely and risk your own life, that's up to you. But if you are a car manufacturer and you know some parts are possibly faulty, you don't keep building your cars with those parts just b/c you're making a good buck at it. Unless you don't give a damn. Which was my only point. They don't seem to. And that's different than me not giving a damn, or anyone who answered here... b/c none of you are selling eliquid to the public. JMO.

 

[Trayce]

Finally I am fairly certain ECX makes very little of there own products. They are simply repackaged from other sources.

Yes, this is right (their Tobacco Express flavors come from all over... China AND USA)... which is why it would have been easy for them to find DAP-free flavors for their line. B/c they are buying someone else's product, not formulating their own. All they had to do was vet their flavors, but this obviously wasn't a concern. It's been 5yrs now that companies started removing diacetyl. It's not a new issue.

 

[mgmrick]

Besides a handful of users here 99% of vapers have no idea what you are talking about and could care less. They just know they feel better and are saving a ton of money.

There are now 100's of vendors out there just search for what you feel comfortable with

 

[Trayce]

Besides a handful of users here 99% of vapers have no idea what you are talking about and could care less. They just know they feel better and are saving a ton of money.

You think 99% of vapers never heard of diacetyl? Really??? You seem to feel that if you agreed a chemical in flavoring might (MIGHT) be bad to inhale, that would somehow give vaping a black eye and you are so grateful to vaping for replacing smoking that you just don't want to hear anything negative about it.

But what will happen to vaping (legally) if people were to begin setting sicK?

I am not saying they will. I am saying where there is credible doubt about a chemical, it's better to protect vaping by the vaping industry erring on the side of caution until and unless proven otherwise.

Again... this doesn't mean every person has to stop vaping diketones. It DOES mean companies selling ejuice should act responsibly with the best knowledge available at the time.

That's how you protect vaping in the long run. And people.

 

[mgmrick]

Nah I stand by 99% of vapers.... 99% of vapers never heard of ecf too.

One thing I have learned being here on ecf.... these studies you keep reading that have you worried.... find out who funded that study

Oh and by the way I have been vaping for 5+ years I don't need you or anybody else with a degree to tell me how much better vaping has made me feel

 

[mgmrick]

You think 99% of vapers never heard of diacetyl? Really??? You seem to feel that if you agreed a chemical in flavoring might (MIGHT) be bad to inhale, that would somehow give vaping a black eye and you are so grateful to vaping for replacing smoking that you just don't want to hear anything negative about it.

But what will happen to vaping (legally) if people were to begin setting sicK?

I am not saying they will. I am saying where there is credible doubt about a chemical, it's better to protect vaping by the vaping industry erring on the side of caution until and unless proven otherwise.

Again... this doesn't mean every person has to stop vaping diketones. It DOES mean companies selling ejuice should act responsibly with the best knowledge available at the time.

That's how you protect vaping in the long run. And people.

Here's a good long thread to read....it's too long and boring for me to read. I made my mind up along time ago

https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/f...-and-ap-overblown-some-numbers-inside.690224/

 

[Trayce]

You keep beating the same drum. That you feel better and therefore this isn't an issue. And to YOU maybe it isn't. But the OP is about a vendor keeping these chems in its flavor line long after legitimate concerns have come to light from the CDC, completely unrelated to the vaping industry.

Supporting vaping, and being responsible about it, do not have to be mutually exclusive. But I am sure ecigexpress is delighted that you and the others that have posted so far in this thread don't care that they've been irresponsible, b/c you are too busy waving your vape flag and shouting about how much better it is than smoking. If you want it to CONTINUE to be better for the long haul, maybe it's not a bad idea to hold vendors to minimum standards.

 

[mgmrick]

You keep beating the same drum. That you feel better and therefore this isn't an issue. And to YOU maybe it isn't. But the OP is about a vendor keeping these chems in its flavor line long after legitimate concerns have come to light from the CDC, completely unrelated to the vaping industry.

Supporting vaping, and being responsible about it, do not have to be mutually exclusive. But I am sure ecigexpress is delighted that you and the others that have posted so far in this thread don't care that they've been irresponsible, b/c you are too busy waving your vape flag and shouting about how much better it is than smoking. If you want it to CONTINUE to be better for the long haul, maybe it's not a bad idea to hold vendors to minimum standards.

And who funded that study? Oh by the way I know of ecigexpress but I don't buy from them as I make my own dirty net flavors

 

[Trayce]

Here's a good long thread to read....it's too long and boring for me to read. I made my mind up along time ago

I wasn't addressing personal opinions on vaping diacetyl. I was making the point that responsible vendors should have eliminated it from their flavor lines by now. Regardless of whether individual people are concerned or not. For some reason you cannot seem to get this very simple point.

 

[NoFumus]

Here's a link to 26 FA tobaccos sold by ecigexpress.
http://www.ecigexpress.com/diy-e-li...rs/flavourart-usa/flavourart-tobacco.html?p=2

Here's a link to the DA/AP-free test results for these 26 flavors.
http://flavourartnaflavourreports.com/

Wherever you purchase your DIY supplies in the future, I hope you are able to find what suits your needs and meets your criteria.

 

[mgmrick]

I wasn't addressing personal opinions on vaping diacetyl. I was making the point that responsible vendors should have eliminated it from their flavor lines by now. Regardless of whether individual people are concerned or not. For some reason you cannot seem to get this very simple point.

No.... your missing the point....there is zero reliable studies that this is even an issue. I repeat who funded these studies that have you in an uproar. Move on and find another vendor that meets your needs

 

[Trayce]

And who funded that study? Oh by the way I know of ecigexpress but I don't buy from them as I make my own dirty net flavors

It is unreasonable, as you must know, to allege that every single study done on diacetyl, beginning with the factory workers that developed "popcorn lung", have been somehow part of a conspiracy to bring down vaping. Diacetyl came to light in a completely different context, that once revealed, had implications for vapers.

 

[jonnychadootz]

I am not a 'sky is falling' person, but do want to avoid known risks when possible

Have you ever smoked cigarettes? Why are you vaping/putting anything in your lungs (other than oxygen) if you are trying to avoid known risks when possible?

While I don't 100% disagree with you (Vendors should inform people of certain contents) At the same time so many studies contradict each other and as was also stated when you look at who funded some of these studies it becomes very suspect. EcigX is pretty good about informing when certain "contents" are in (or are potentially in) flavorings. I don't buy pre-made juice anymore so I really can't comment on that.

 

[mgmrick]

It is unreasonable, as you must know, to allege that every single study done on diacetyl, beginning with the factory workers that developed "popcorn lung", have been somehow part of a conspiracy to bring down vaping. Diacetyl came to light in a completely different context, that once revealed, had implications for vapers.

We will agree to disagree.... Best advice read that long thread. And find another vendor as 99% of vapers could care less

 

[Trayce]

@ NoFumus

Thanks, I am already aware of FlavourArt. I am not in a jam to find vendors with DAP-free flavors. I have been buying them for a couple yrs now. I was simply stunned by ecigexpress as I didn't think any legit vendor would even have a flavor line that contained DAP at this point. As the OP states.

Since this subject is obviously agitating some, I'll leave it here. I said my piece, and I maintain ecigexpress is not doing the vaping community and favors.