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Equivalent nic freebase to 20mg nic salt (in pod systems)

Discussion in 'General Vaping Discussion' started by Vapeianic, Feb 14, 2019.

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  1. Vapeianic

    Vapeianic Full Member

    Feb 12, 2019
    Hey there,

    First of all, I am only vaping on every other weekend.

    I was wondering what the equivalent of 20mg nic salt would be, especially in a pod system like the BO e.g.
    I am asking this because I used to refill my pods with a nic salt liquid which had 20mg nic salt.
    As I want to order new prefilled caps, I wonder how much normal nicotine I should go for. There are 8mg and 16mg as options. I read that normal cigarettes are supposed to have 12mg (?) and with Marlboro Red I was satisfied. I still want to have a nic flash with the caps.

    Would be great if someone has a recommendation or so :)
     
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  2. Katya

    Katya ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Feb 23, 2010
    SoCal
    What is BO? I take it it's one of the pod kits? Those produce little vapor and use low wattage, which is one of the reasons nic salts concentrations in pods are so high. If you're going to use freebase nicotine in the same pod, I'd go with 16 mg/ml. I vape 12-16 mg/ml freebase (not in pods though--mainly MTL RTAs) and ~25 mg/ml nic salts.
     
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  3. Vapeianic

    Vapeianic Full Member

    Feb 12, 2019
    Yeah, it is something like a JUUL. Only the prefilled caps have freebase nic instead of nic salt.
    Thanks for the input :)
     
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  4. Katya

    Katya ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Feb 23, 2010
    SoCal
    So I looked up your Bo. Is this what you're using?

    BO ONE

    If so, those pods come in 3.5% (35 mg/ml) and 5.5% (55 mg/ml). Is that right?
     
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  5. Vapeianic

    Vapeianic Full Member

    Feb 12, 2019
    This is the device, but there seem to be different variations in the US o_O
    These variations are available here: bovaping. com /shop-now/ bo-caps
    Without the spacebars, seems like I can't post links yet :)
     
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  6. Katya

    Katya ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Feb 23, 2010
    SoCal
    You can't post links yet because you're a very new member. :) It will change soon. Let me look and I'll get back to you in a sec.
     
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  7. Katya

    Katya ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Feb 23, 2010
    SoCal
    So I'm here: BŌ CAPS: Flavored Vaping E-Liquid Pods | BŌ Vaping and I do see freebase caps at 16 mg/ml but the prices are listed in Euros? Anyway, they don't look like they are refillable. Hmm... Are they easy to refill?
     
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  8. My Batt Hurts

    My Batt Hurts Super Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 25, 2017
    UK
    Hi - If you're in the EU, max nic strength is 20mg/ml.

    My understanding is that nic salts usually give less throat hit than freebase at the same strength. As Katya says, try 16 - if it's too much, drop down to 8. Since it's a pod, 16 shouldn't hit your throat too hard.

    Good luck!
     
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  9. charlie1465

    charlie1465 Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    I'm using my pod with 36mg/ml nic salts. It's only been a week and it seems very satisfying and i've had no problems. I make my own salt nic so that it gives me the choice of which strength I like....the TPD laws in Europe make salts not usable really unless you get on alright with 20mg/ml or below :)
     
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  10. Vapeianic

    Vapeianic Full Member

    Feb 12, 2019
    I ordered 16mg pods and nearly 'died' yesterday. I did draw very gently and only for a second or so on my pod system and I had to cough really hard. 20mg nic salts however were perfectly smooth in comparison. Next time I buy 8mg^^ :)
     
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  11. My Batt Hurts

    My Batt Hurts Super Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 25, 2017
    UK
    Yikes & sorry!
    Glad you found something that works.
     
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  12. Opinionated

    Opinionated Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 19, 2015
    My Mountain

    20mg Free base nicotine and 20mg nicotine salts have the exact same amount of nicotine in them - there is no difference.

    Nicotine salts are PH balanced to be less harsh (no throat hit, or low throat hit) so you can tolerate a higher level of nicotine by using salts...

    That is what salts do, they make it easy on your throat to vape higher levels of nicotine

    Most of us long time vapers quit cigarettes using 18mg - 36mg of free base nicotine, so it's possible to adjust to the harsher throat hit. It's just not as pleasant until you get used to it.

    Since your used to 20mg of nicotine, your going to have a hard time dropping all the way to 8mg.. you will have some withdrawals - especially if you were a former smoker.

    So I do want you to know that it's very possible to get used to 16mg freebase..
     
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  13. Shadav

    Shadav Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 4, 2013
    Westfield, IN, USA
    typically with a new vapor, I would suggest higher mg....but seeing as you've already gotten used to nic salts, well that might be a problem.... switching from smoking, usually we all needed the higher mg (freebase) to give us that throat hit and also to counteract all the additives that we're no longer getting from smoking

    and as stated.... mg is mg, doesn't matter if it's freebase or salt, it's still the same amount of nicotine
    just that, as stated, salts are made to be less harsh and supposedly absorb faster/better in the lungs than freebase, not sure I really agree with that...

    the other issue as well could be most pre filled tanks use high pg juice and that is also going to cause irritation....
    try using a higher vg % but it's still going to give some irritation at higher nic mg levels
    but going from 20mg to 8mg is not going to be very satisfying that's a 12mg difference (regardless of if it's freebase or salt)
     
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  14. override137

    override137 Full Member

    Mar 8, 2019
    Another thing to mention is that the vg/pg ratios will likely be different and small pods like that (I have a bo) usually like thinner, pg-heavy mixtures. Putting a 70/30 (like most freebase) will probably result in a lot of burnt hits.

    As others have posted too, nicotine is nicotine, so 20mg=20mg (even though salt absorbs and dissipates in your blood quicker)

    Try finding a small mod thats meant to be refilled, and has different coil options for freebase juice and salt
     
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  15. Jumpin' In...

    Jumpin' In... Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 11, 2013
    Maui, Hawaii
    If you’re only “vaping on every other weekend”, you may not need much in the way of nicotine. Maybe close to nothing...?
     
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  16. Vapntime

    Vapntime Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 22, 2013
    Brisbane, Australia
    100mg/ml Nicotine salts are not equivalent to 100mg/ml freebase nicotine. Check the chemistry there needs to be space for the acid/s used. There is more info on this site.
    Research this example 100mg/ml nicotine benzoate (salts).

    Nicotine and Nicotine 'salts' are two different chemicals.

    Equivalency is approx 50% freebase to acid depending on acid used to make nicotine salt. So, I vape at 9mg freebase and 18mg nic salt (subohm). The 18mg nic salt is only approx 9mg freebase however it is absorbed in my lungs much better than freebase. Nicotine salts used correctly should increase nicotine effect and 'rush', last longer and reduce amount used significantly.
     
  17. Katya

    Katya ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Feb 23, 2010
    SoCal
    While I agree with you in theory, I still don't understand why vendors and manufacturers list their salts as containing a certain amount of nicotine per ml if that amount is not correct--50 mg of nicotine per ml should be 50 mg of nicotine per ml, no? Salts or freebase. It creates a lot of confusion, misinformation and doubt in people's minds.

    I can only tell you from my own experience that I could never vape 24 mg/ml freebase nic, not because of harshness, but because it made me dizzy. I was feeling literally sick. But I can vape 24 mg/ml salts--not non-stop, but I can take a few hits and I'm fine.
     
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  18. Vapntime

    Vapntime Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 22, 2013
    Brisbane, Australia
    Pure nicotine benzoate (salts) reads like this:

    NicSalt-B

    Name: NicSalt-B (Nicotine Benzoate)
    Identifier (CAS no.): 88660-53-1
    Appearance: white to amber coloured crystals
    Identification: Nicotine Benzoate
    Purity: min. 99.9%
    Nicotine content: 57,05% w/w corresponding to [575,053] mg/ml
    Benzoic acid content: 42,95 % w/w corresponding to 429,947] mg/ml
    Nicotine benzoate content: 99,999 % w/w corresponding to 999,099 mg/ml

    If we make a 10% solution we have 100mg/ml of nicotine benzoate or nicotine 'salt'.

    I think suppliers are either unaware or can charge higher prices because it has the 100mg/ml label we are all familiar with. However, it is 100mg/ml nicotine 'salts'.
    I will check with a few suppliers though I don't think they will want to tell me that the actual freebase nicotine level is closer to 50% for a product consumers identify with at 100mg/ml. They are not doing anything wrong.
     
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  19. Jazzman

    Jazzman Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 24, 2013
    High Desert, CA
    I got to side with Katya on this one. Or maybe you're not explaining it well, or I'm a bit dense.

    Yes, the nicotine is manufactured by different methods and that is clear. But the end result if you buy a liter of 100mg/ml FB or NS you are getting that strength and it has been well tested and certified with copious records filed with proof of accuracy and stored sample at the lab for further verification if ever needed. Both bottles will use the same amount of nicotine to make the same strength and flavor juice as the other. That's also a reason it is important to get the specific gravity of the bottle of nicotine from the manufacturer. There may be a difference in VG and PG you add to your juice as a result because of a different ratio of nicotine/carrier fluid, but not a problem really... just mixing right.

    I think the confusion here is that you are looking at the pure product 1000mg/ml and equating it with the 100mg/ml we typically use. So they put in more nicotine and less carrier fluid. It will work out to 100mg/ml nicotine. How could it be otherwise? It is monitored for accuracy and compliance and I believe that if you tested either product there would not be a difference greater than the variance allowed.

    I have been making juice for about 6 months now with NS, and have been using FB in my juice for 5 years. I have done lots of testing lately with both FB and NS (I have 3 different NS TH strengths also. Smooth, regular, hit and test with all of them) in side by side testing and I can honestly find no real difference in my nic reaction. TH is a very different story. NS does really make a big difference there.

    I also think the absorption rate of NS compared to FB is way overblown. There might be a slight effect, but it's subtle. Nothing like I've heard some try to convince others of here. Maybe that's just me, but I doubt it.
     
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  20. Vapntime

    Vapntime Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 22, 2013
    Brisbane, Australia
    It is 100mg/ml nicotine salts, that's what you are buying. You are not buying 100mg/ml nicotine because that is a different product. It is a 10% solution in pg or VG etc. The reason your not getting much effect from nicotine salts is you are not using a high enough strength because you believe the 100mg/ml is nicotine strength, but it is not, your are buying nicotine salts which is a diffent chemical. As above it is nicotine benzoate etc not nicotine

    Nicotine: C10H14N2
    Nicotine ditartrate a salt made from nicotine and tartaric acid: C18H26N2O12

    Look for other examples, vitamins for example. I have 1500mg of calcium carbonate here, it is not 1500mg of calcium. On the bottle it states 600mg of elemental calcium in 1500mg of calcium carbonate.

    Even juul follow the chemistry (scroll down)
    JUULpods and E-Liquid FAQs - JUUL Support
     
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