EVENT ALERT - Court Hearing on E-Cigarettes [8/17] // Ruling Could Determine Fate of Controversial Nicotine Product

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DisMan

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Sep 2, 2008
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Enough of the ranting crap. Jesus.

Okay, the event is in Washington DC at 3PM. How many ex-smokers can show up their and provide their testimony that they have quit smoking? One of the arguments ASH has is that nobody has quit smoking on these. Who can show up and say "Actually, I have."?

That's one argument that needs to be presented *and* is an argument that truly shows results.
 

Symmetric

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Another bs note in history. I do not recall the name of the cigarette brand, however back in the 70's there was a cigarette advertisement that read
"4 out of 5 doctors recommend __________ cigarettes" I am assuming the FDA may not have said anything about it because they regulated cigarettes (and were paid by tobacco co's) companies. And when big tobacco had the light of ALA shone upon it the uh doctors on payroll (and the FDA) changed their tune. Really it comes down to public outcry! the more WE AS A PEOPLE KNOW THE TRUTH, the louder we become! So what do we get to do? More is lost through inaction than making mistakes. How do we get to act in regards to this?


I think you might be refrencing something like this...

... I couldn't get the embed to work, so Google "more doctors smoke camel" and check out the 1949 commercial that comes back from YouTube.
 

Darkest

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OK, this is interesting. This isn't all bad...NSD (Never Say Die, it's on my motorcycle handlebars and on the side of my monitor).

John Banzhaf wrote the article so that only means a little and is obviously very slanted. What this does show is that they are getting desperate and very, very scared. Which means to go to these lengths they probably have a reason to be.

We the people (That's us) need to make ourselves heard in every way we can. Teabags people, teabags...

Who's country is this anyway and who the hell do they think they are? We have so little faith anymore that we can change anything because we are so used to sitting on our butts and getting bowled over by the government and big business we have no faith in ourselves and our ability to change anything. "We lose, I'm gonna go watch TV"

Hell no...I'm not dying for these losers.

We NEED to get angry.

I'm willing to bet even if the courts rule against us if enough of us marched on Washington we would get things changed.

Where the heck is the ECA anyway, we NEED you people....
 

sherid

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Does anyone believe a petition would assist our cause? It could carry some wieght could it not? I am not aware of what happened to the last petition that was signed nor where it went? does any one have any idea on what happened to it?
Another bs note in history. I do not recall the name of the cigarette brand, however back in the 70's there was a cigarette advertisement that read
"4 out of 5 doctors recommend __________ cigarettes" I am assuming the FDA may not have said anything about it because they regulated cigarettes (and were paid by tobacco co's) companies. And when big tobacco had the light of ALA shone upon it the uh doctors on payroll (and the FDA) changed their tune. Really it comes down to public outcry! the more WE AS A PEOPLE KNOW THE TRUTH, the louder we become! So what do we get to do? More is lost through inaction than making mistakes. How do we get to act in regards to this?

"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you WIN" - Gandhi

It was four out of five doctors smoke Camels
 

sherid

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OK, this is interesting. This isn't all bad...NSD (Never Say Die, it's on my motorcycle handlebars and on the side of my monitor).

John Banzhaf wrote the article so that only means a little and is obviously very slanted. What this does show is that they are getting desperate and very, very scared. Which means to go to these lengths they probably have a reason to be.

We the people (That's us) need to make ourselves heard in every way we can. Teabags people, teabags...

Who's country is this anyway and who the hell do they think they are? We have so little faith anymore that we can change anything because we are so used to sitting on our butts and getting bowled over by the government and big business we have no faith in ourselves and our ability to change anything. "We lose, I'm gonna go watch TV"

Hell no...I'm not dying for these losers.

We NEED to get angry.

I'm willing to bet even if the courts rule against us if enough of us marched on Washington we would get things changed.

Where the heck is the ECA anyway, we NEED you people....

I agree that ASH is feeling desperate. E cigs are a threat to their funding and to their sole reason for existence. It is also a threat to their agenda that focuses on demonizing smoking. Since e cigs look like smoking, it drives them to tantrums that most non-smokers applaud them. It sets their movement backward. Anything that pisses off ASH and makes them make more and more lunatic public statements is a very good thing.
 

DC2

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We NEED to get angry.
I am not only angry, I am getting angrier by the day.

I'm willing to bet even if the courts rule against us if enough of us marched on Washington we would get things changed.
If we could organize a march, I would fly across the country if I had to in order to be there.
I worry that there are not enough of us that could afford to pull it off though.
 

ladyraj

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Once upon a time...I believed the truth would win out and ASH would be a memory...until I found that ASH and there ilk actually created the truth. Heck, the American Legacy foundation have a copyright license for the word Truth. I disagree that ASH is on the run, though I wish it were true...at the foundation of this dilemma is an "untested" product. But what we can demand and hope for is a fast tracking process thru FDA to get this technology in to the hands of those who want and need it (as well as their probable appreciative family members). ;)
 

Sun Vaporer

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Enough of the ranting crap. Jesus.

Okay, the event is in Washington DC at 3PM. How many ex-smokers can show up their and provide their testimony that they have quit smoking? One of the arguments ASH has is that nobody has quit smoking on these. Who can show up and say "Actually, I have."?

That's one argument that needs to be presented *and* is an argument that truly shows results.

Some clarification here--time out people--this is a Court proceeding--not a hearing for the public. It is in the case of SE v. FDA. Only Counsel will be heard with Judge Leon.

See http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...erywhere-v-fda-daily-docket-sheet-update.html

Sun
 

Vaporer

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Jun 23, 2009
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True Sun, the people will not be allowed to speak at this type of hearing.
It is a place though in where public awareness could benefit us.
If enough people showed at the court steps just prior to the hearing, say 2pm, it may strike a note with the media. Tv coverage from citizens who could actually explain what this is all about and state they have quit smoking with this safer device than cigarettes would possibly help inform the masses. It cannot be a mud slinging bash the FDA situation. Be tacful. Be truthful. Be quick and to the point.
I would think there are many in and within driving distance in the DC area.
This is a time to make friends, not adversaries. There are many who have never smoked that are not even aware of this device and have no reason to look at it, for it, or accept it other than its appearence of smoke they don't want to breathe. Anyone I have explain the device to has accepted it with open arms , even people who have never smoked.
The coin has been tossed and the FDA is not going to just go away. I don't want DEG in my liquids and I'm sure most don't. Let them keep dirty juice out of us. To just blanket ban it all is like killing 1 to save a 1000, 10 to save 10,000 or 10,000 to save a million. In our case its the reverse..kill 10,000 that smoke cigarettes and save the 10 that might quit. Perverse rationalization huh?

Embrace the enemy, know them better than yourself, then convert them with the facts.

Just MHO,

Vaporer
 

Territoo

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    True Sun, the people will not be allowed to speak at this type of hearing.
    It is a place though in where public awareness could benefit us.
    If enough people showed at the court steps just prior to the hearing, say 2pm, it may strike a note with the media. Tv coverage from citizens who could actually explain what this is all about and state they have quit smoking with this safer device than cigarettes would possibly help inform the masses. It cannot be a mud slinging bash the FDA situation. Be tacful. Be truthful. Be quick and to the point.
    I would think there are many in and within driving distance in the DC area.
    This is a time to make friends, not adversaries. There are many who have never smoked that are not even aware of this device and have no reason to look at it, for it, or accept it other than its appearence of smoke they don't want to breathe. Anyone I have explain the device to has accepted it with open arms , even people who have never smoked.
    The coin has been tossed and the FDA is not going to just go away. I don't want DEG in my liquids and I'm sure most don't. Let them keep dirty juice out of us. To just blanket ban it all is like killing 1 to save a 1000, 10 to save 10,000 or 10,000 to save a million. In our case its the reverse..kill 10,000 that smoke cigarettes and save the 10 that might quit. Perverse rationalization huh?

    Embrace the enemy, know them better than yourself, then convert them with the facts.

    Just MHO,

    Vaporer

    Been lurking instead of posting for the last few days, mainly letting people vent. I now see that perhaps we are ready to stop crying and start acting.

    Vaporer's suggestion is a good idea, but far too late for this battle. There's no way to plan any signifcant rally the eve before the hearing, and anything "thrown together" at the last minute could do more harm than good. If people are going to show up tomorrow, please keep it calm. Getting angry and calling people names (aka "Nazi") in the presence of the press will hurt us A LOT! Breaking laws, creating disturbances, and getting thrown in jail does not come across as being the responsible group of people who just want to continuing to use e-cigarettes to our betterment. Rather, it would make us appear as 60's throwbacks who never grew up.

    This battle is about over, and we may lose it. The war isn't over though. Should the outcome of tomorrow's hearing go against us, then we need to plan for the next step...whatever it is. We can do a lot though.

    In looking at the credentials, money, and power of those at ASH, and other anti-smoking groups, we have forgotten the power that we do have, the power of the people! There are numerous occassions when grassroots efforts have prevailed. Most of us have some sort of training or talent that can be used. Healthcare workers, scientists, teachers, lawyers and legal workers. Can you design websites? Are you good at raising funds, public speaking? Do you have a contact with the media or an elected official? Can you write news articles or draw political cartoons? Can you troll websites, looking for "lone rangers", such as the one who began selling ......, so that we can deal with i? Think about what you can do to help.

    We should plan the rally for the next event, whenever and whatever it is. It will be well organized, fun, informative and will show the "powers" what kind of people we are, responsible people who need our voices heard.

    If we want to continue to vape legally, we are going to have to fight. Ya with me? :thumbs:
     

    Vaporer

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    Territoo,

    You make some good suggestions. Maybe a thread should be started just for the "I can help with ??? what can I do?"

    I in no way insinuated a demonstration. People must be calm act like responsible adults and hold the anger in. If 200 locals showed up, someone might tip the news, if it's a slow news day......well
    That is why I stated in my post "Tv coverage from citizens who could actually explain what this is all about and state they have quit smoking with this safer device than cigarettes would possibly help inform the masses. It cannot be a mud slinging bash the FDA situation. Be tacful. Be truthful. Be quick and to the point."
    Maybe I should have added "being polite with concern".
    The old saying goes "you catch more flies with honey than vinegar" applies.
    Radical protests puts us in a bad catagory and very well would be a set back.

    The word needs to be spread among the masses on what we really want. It's a shame we don't have funding for a few tv commercials. Politicians can be "motivated" if enough people are involved that put their job at risk.

    It just appears from what I've been reading that anything posed to "officials" reguarding this matter is shrugged off and ignored never to be heard from again. Do we flood the FDA with "I've used these devices and have quit smoking for "X" day/months" in hope it's not cast to the Twilight Zone?
    Would it make a difference to the FDA with it's backers?

    It's known they troll these sites so information that possibly hurts us should be kept down. Don't load their guns for them.

    We can try, hope and one day the truth will be known. I just pray I'm not smoking analogs when it happens.

    Vaporer
     

    ladyraj

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    Ahhhhh! I hate to be a downer but...retail venders and entertainment venues across this land did not prevail...users did not prevail...big buck companies did not prevail...against the current regime of anti-smoking. Business owners of private property are not free to choose what clientele to serve just in case a rabid anti-smoker walks in (they can't read "smoking allowed" signs). Businesses are fighting for their very existence. How would the "simulated" smoking business hold more sway than any other business in the recreational nicotine user world?:confused:

    If people don't like what you do, they can vote, lobby, or lie it away...and we let them...over and over again.

    This situation is a perfect example of the erosion of choice bit by bit via the tyranny of the majority.8-o

    I thought this forum and the activism it spurred was a grass roots organization.
     
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    beatlebandaide

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    guinea pigs - I was a Marlboro guinea pig for 23 years - and they knew those would kill me.......why and who is worried about me now .....and how much $ is involved?

    AAAAAAAAAAAMEEEEENNNN!!!

    Someone finally summed up how I'm feeling 100%!!!!! Thanks Robert!
     

    Territoo

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    Territoo,

    You make some good suggestions. Maybe a thread should be started just for the "I can help with ??? what can I do?"

    I in no way insinuated a demonstration. People must be calm act like responsible adults and hold the anger in. If 200 locals showed up, someone might tip the news, if it's a slow news day......well
    That is why I stated in my post "Tv coverage from citizens who could actually explain what this is all about and state they have quit smoking with this safer device than cigarettes would possibly help inform the masses. It cannot be a mud slinging bash the FDA situation. Be tacful. Be truthful. Be quick and to the point."
    Maybe I should have added "being polite with concern".
    The old saying goes "you catch more flies with honey than vinegar" applies.
    Radical protests puts us in a bad catagory and very well would be a set back.

    The word needs to be spread among the masses on what we really want. It's a shame we don't have funding for a few tv commercials. Politicians can be "motivated" if enough people are involved that put their job at risk.

    It just appears from what I've been reading that anything posed to "officials" reguarding this matter is shrugged off and ignored never to be heard from again. Do we flood the FDA with "I've used these devices and have quit smoking for "X" day/months" in hope it's not cast to the Twilight Zone?
    Would it make a difference to the FDA with it's backers?

    It's known they troll these sites so information that possibly hurts us should be kept down. Don't load their guns for them.

    We can try, hope and one day the truth will be known. I just pray I'm not smoking analogs when it happens.

    Vaporer

    I didn't think that you personally were suggesting a street brawl, but without planning, what's to stop the radical few from showing up, causing problems, and ruining it for all of us. Perhaps those that do want to appear just stand quietly w/ signs stating, "Thanks to ecigarettes, I've been smoke-free for X number of days." A couple of hundred of those signs, each associated w/ a real person, would say a lot.

    Will take your advice on starting a new thread. Will post here when I do.
     

    Vaporer

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    Territoo,

    The signs are a great idea. How about bumper stickers?

    Ladyraj,

    Sad , but what you say is true. I live abt 100mi east of you and it effected many small businesses in an already econmically deprived area.
    The little cogs all squeeked and they got the oil.
    The problem was when they squeeked they had documentation that cigarettes were harmful. Heck, it says so on the side!
    Now comes the mess we face. Everyone uneducated abt vaping associates vaping to smoking analogs and the stigma that goes with them. Skillfully the FDA didn't test against analogs, if they did, they had no case. This is the one point I hope Judge Leon sees for face value.

    Its apples and oranges and all the non-vapers see is rotten fruit,

    Vaporer
     
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