Ex Domestic User 5 Years - Needing help from RY4 users

[roseenglish]

I posted in the Beginners thread a couple of weeks back about the fact I have spent £1000 in a month in a bid to find a replacement for Domestic by Johnson Creek (100% PG Free) - Company closed in Oct and I cannot find ANY supplies anywhere in the world.

I won't bore you with the whats and whys but I have focused on buying NET tobaccos and authentic tobaccos but they're too dry too savoury or on the other end of the spectrum some flavours are too sweet in a sickly artificial way. (VV RY4 is truly vile in my opinion, I darent even vape it the smell alone makes me want to gag)
I have binned dozens and dozens of liquids because the smell was too perfumed.

I know I must come across like the "Princess and the Pea" but my tongue has been used to one flavour alone for all these years.

So I am trying a different route -

Johnson Creek Red Oak Domestic 100% PG free.
Its actually an RY4 variant but this is news to me to be honest. Always had it as a pipe tobacco flavour but with a subtle sweetness on the exhale.
I love it because there is no lingering after taste and the ingredients taste natural - I hate any smell or taste that stays with you after stopping vaping - I go off those types of liquids super fast.

Can anyone please recommend a high to MAX VG authentic and subtle or mellow based RY4 liquid?

I have a drawer full of unused and unwanted tobacco juices, worth at least £200 I will happily send to the person who has the most direction in helping me find the "one" to replace my loved Domestic. You will just have to take my word that I am genuine when I say this.
I mean at this stage I am thinking of making my own liquid which I swore 2 weeks ago I would not be interested in but I am desperate.

The flavours needed to make this liquid to be authentic and taste natural - Domestic was not a NET based juice but it tastes authentic. All of their ingredients were US sourced and 100% PG free. If I could narrow down a DIY/flavour company in the USA that makes and sells PG free flavours I could perhaps recreate my own Domestic but sourcing the correct flavours is the key to success I believe (?)

Here are the ingredients :

Johnson Creek Ingredients =
FCC grade Vegetable Glycerin
Food-grade Glycerol
Distilled water
Nicotine (except in Zero Nic juices)
Natural Flavors
Artificial flavors
Citric Acid (used as a natural preservative in the juice)
100% free of Propylene Glycol


DOMESTIC RECIPE:
VG 107.10g
PG 0.00g
Nicotine 17.17g
Tobacco 4.80g
Burley 4.80g
Caramel 3.60g
Vanilla Swirl 3.6g0g
Smoke Flavor 1.20g

Side note: Thought I was PG sensitive but not sure now. NET.com liquids have confirmed their 100% VG ARE 100% VG with 0% PG and yet some of them gave me instant light headedness and a headache to follow with a slight heart rate increase...

Domestic despite being PG free was a very thin liquid it was not gooey or sticky and it wicked well as a result
I know they added DW but I wonder what the difference is in
Vegetable Glycerin and Food-grade Glycerol and if Food-grade Glycerol is thinner which helped the liquid to thin out?

 

[roseenglish]

I remember MANY times I received new Domestic bottles (before they reformulated the recipe 2 yrs ag) and the smell was totally chemical and I would think "eeewww" but it vaped ok and I adjusted and the chemical smell slowly vanished.

Its been so depressing and anyone I talk to about it say "so stop vaping!" or "So find another flavour"
But I am getting headaches from those i like (HOL NET Tobaccos) and so my options are limited... think I will end up making my own.

I would like to narrow down a USA based flavour company that sell 100% PG free liquids and hopefully sell this "Smoke flavour" which seems to be quite unusual (?)

Thanks in advance!

 

[CagedSpam]

Wish I could help more. Here is a link for NudeNic, PG free flavorings.

I have tried their tobacco flavor, it is straight tobacco and probably good for a base recipe.

[Concentrated Flavorings] - Nude Nicotine

 

[roseenglish]

Thank you !

Wish I could help more. Here is a link for NudeNic, PG free flavorings.

I have tried their tobacco flavor, it is straight tobacco and probably good for a base recipe.

[Concentrated Flavorings] - Nude Nicotine

I have written to them with the recipe !

Fingers Crossed

 

[roseenglish]

Propylene Glycol Free Flavors and Extracts - Apex Flavors

Whats this all about? Why don't they sell to e cigarette peeps?

 

[stols001]

Some people (such as myself) are sensitive to PG. I can handle up to about 5% and then things go rather south. But some folks can't vape it at all, so PG flavors can be useful, and thanks for linking to that site, as I really prefer to avoid it completely when I can. Will have to check it out.

Not really any flavor makers that I know of were developed specifically for vaping applications, but I am not knowledgeable about all of them, but most were just developed from either food applications or perfume etc., although AFAIK nowadays most folks aren't using the perfume based flavorings....

Anywhoodle. (Sorry, I just encountered that "word" recently and wanted to use it) I also don't know as much about flavorings as some.... So I may be wrong on some of this.

Anna

 

[roseenglish]

I am so new to this genre of vaping - It seems the Apex Flavors sell flavours but sell with a disclaimer for use in e -cigarettes I can only assume as they have had a lot of enquiries and/or purchases for such use and they are not insured or legally positioned to market their flavors for such use. Is this "typical" and people buy and use anyway or do people only buy from DIY liquid flavour merchants. ?

INDIVIDUAL PRODUCT E-CIG DISCLAIMER
Apex Flavors, Inc.’s extracts, flavors, emulsions, and essential oils are sold exclusively for use in food and drink and intended for human consumption. Our products are not sold for use in e-cigarettes or any use where the flavor is inhaled or topically applied to the skin.

The safety of flavoring substances used in our extracts, flavors, and emulsions when used in food and drink for human consumption is established through safety tests primarily designed to understand oral ingestion toxicity, and on reasonable estimations of exposure to these substances and their metabolites through food intake. The safety of the uses in food and drink flavoring is not automatically extended to alternate uses, such as flavoring for e-cigarettes or any application where the flavor is inhaled or topically applied to the skin.

Individuals or companies that use our extracts, flavors, emulsions, and essential oils outside their intended use of food and drink for human consumption do so at their own risk and without warranty, either expressed or implied, from Apex Flavors, Inc. or its suppliers. The user assumes all liability for loss, injury, damage, or expense resulting from such uses.

Please do not hesitate to contact (removed) if you have any questions regarding the safe use of our products.

 

[SteveS45]

Start doing DIY because after what you spent in a month you could already have found an ADV you make for yourself! Just my opinion after searching for the best Tobacco e-liquid for a couple of years. Now the best is my own tank mixes. Remember just my opinion.........

 

[CagedSpam]

After re reading your post I have some thoughts. Start looking at or for RY4D mixes. IIRC the D is for Double and lacks any flowery taste.
I would recommend
https://www.halocigs.com/tribeca-eliquid/
but they only go down to 30% PG.

Might be worth trying a sample. I thought this was pretty good stuff a few years ago.

GL

 

[mcclintock]

The idea that PG is more likely a problem than any other component of e-juice is an old one that won't go away and appears completely without merit. If you're having headache issues, this is more likely alcohol used to sub for PG, or a flavoring.

I never tried that flavor and can't even imagine only using one flavor so can't help there. Have you tried unflavored, or considered some you are trying are overflavored? Some of my favorite mixes are not good at normal strength. The flavor can actually turn into a wall of darkness that is untastable, impenetrable.

2 of my DIY flavoring favorites that might be relevant are TA Garuda, fresh and surprising leaf taste, and Hangsen Virginia, mild flavor with good body, very useful in mixes. I might use 1 drop per bottle of FA Virginia with it for a slight floral "nose" because the Hangsen completely lacks it.

 

[roseenglish]

Start doing DIY because after what you spent in a month you could already have found an ADV you make for yourself! Just my opinion after searching for the best Tobacco e-liquid for a couple of years. Now the best is my own tank mixes. Remember just my opinion.........

I am 90% thinking the same

Now I have to start the whole process again only with flavour companies.....damn JC! They could have given people a month to buy up stock supplies....

I found a guy in the Uk who had a few bottles but it was all very "cloak and dagger" he told me it had to be a private sale as he was not meant to be selling them now since the company closed.... WTH? Why not?

I am beyond ...... off right now...I wish I could enjoy PG or whatever it is that seems to make me dizzy as I would have settled on HOL or Black Note probably.

 

[roseenglish]

The idea that PG is more likely a problem than any other component of e-juice is an old one that won't go away and appears completely without merit. If you're having headache issues, this is more likely alcohol used to sub for PG, or a flavoring.

I never tried that flavor and can't even imagine only using one flavor so can't help there. Have you tried unflavored, or considered some you are trying are overflavored? Some of my favorite mixes are not good at normal strength. The flavor can actually turn into a wall of darkness that is untastable, impenetrable.

2 of my DIY flavoring favorites that might be relevant are TA Garuda, fresh and surprising leaf taste, and Hangsen Virginia, mild flavor with good body, very useful in mixes. I might use 1 drop per bottle of FA Virginia with it for a slight floral "nose" because the Hangsen completely lacks it.

I agree with you about PG in a way because I have dozens of sample bottles 100% VG from NET.com and he has confirmed that 100% VG is literally 100% VG _ they extract the flavours in VG for their 1005 VG liquids and in PG if 100% VG is not needed
So with that said, why is it some of his flavours give me a MASSIVE headache and instant dizziness and others don't....all 100% VG
He is as confused as I am.

I am vaping 1.8 nic on an eroll....YES an eRoll ( I am old school) and the liquid from JC was also 1.8mg nic so I am baffled what it is that doesn't agree with me - I have tried lower nic in pg/vg mixes and still get the woozy feeling.. Anyway - I will just have to narrow one down and accept the situation

As for using one flavour....never have been into fruity or sweet flavours... or trying different flavours...I went from a UK brand called British Bulldog that was discontinued so I traced it to the manufacturers and that happened to be Johnson Creek and so I tried some of their flavours and narrowed it down to Domestic...that was 2012 and to this day I still find it satisfying and love the smell and subtle flavour of it.

I know I am unusual in that respect

 

[Ohio Points]

Propylene Glycol Free Flavors and Extracts - Apex Flavors

Whats this all about? Why don't they sell to e cigarette peeps?

Actually it says anyone can create an account and min size is 2ozs of flavor...how are they going to police it's actual use.
Either they say it's not for vape juice for perceived legal/liability reasons ( some of their flavors may be oil based, et al.) or they're anti-vaping snobs that DO sell flavors intended for alcoholic beverages, because we all know those have never hurt anyone /s.

 

[roseenglish]

So, here's an update and testiment to how stubborn or resistant I am to accepting change

I must have spent 70 plus hours searching and researching this issue of my one and only e liquid vanishing off the shelves since Johnson Creek closed its doors in Oct 2017. I am self employed so my job has took a back seat during what is genuinely a crisis in my life. I know I am unusual in the sense that I never tried other brands or flavours, I found one I liked and stuck with it.

I have exceeded £1000 (inc shipping & customs) trying different brands and flavours and tried NETs and big brand names only to find many tasted truly artificial, perfumed and worse yet, they left an aftertaste in my mouth with some much like when you accidentally spray perfume in your mouth.Others tasted good but gave me instant dizziness and a dull headache to follow.

The few I have put to one side as a "go to" when the time comes are NET.com Virginia (Although it lacks sweetness sadly but I can find a caramel and mix it in)
Velvet Cloud - White Beard - but in small doses only and when mixed a LOT with something more subtle (NET Virginia) I find the sweet ingredients in White Beard too "in your face" and cloying after a while. I cannot pick up on the tobacco at all.

Ironically I have recently gone back to one of the very first orders I placed and dismissed thinking I could find something better and it works but needs some sweetness adding and that is a brand called VSAVI -M Tobacco.
100% PG free which I find works for me.
There is no scent or after taste, in fact I am struggling to find any flavour which for me is better than too much flavour. I have ordered Vanilla Coffee and Caramel from the same brand in hopes of mixing them and finding the perfect balance.

I have a heap from HHV - steeping. I don't want to try them now incase I get a bad taste and am put off. I will leave them for a month and try them later. They have already had 24 hours with the cap off.

My perfect vape liquid would be one that has very subtle but more importantly authentic flavours that do not linger. If it has caramel and vanilla in it, I want it to taste exactly like those ingredients and not just smell like them. This is the issue I am having with even big brands, some smell divine but taste nothing like they claim to be.

I would gladly swap tobacco for an authentic coffee but they all seem to have unnecessary flavour accents such as "milk" "Cream" or "Brown Sugar" to them which tend not to be as described and they drown any of the coffee flavour in there.
I find most liquids even the premium ones are too sweet and sickly and for me at least, I get sick of the taste very fast.

The things I have learned:

This maybe just my opinion but having only vaped the same very old liquid for five years straight, I am learning from the new liquids I have recently tried that the market has changed and the flavours seem to be mostly sweet sickly and very strong and that's how people seem to like them. The other end of the spectrum are the NETs which are for the most part too savoury to me. No sweetness at all.
I honestly think having vaped a liquid from one of the most well respected and sought after e liquid manufacturers all these years has made me very picky now. JC's original lines were legendary and well regarded and whilst I understand they had some reformula issues in 2016, that was something I managed to dodge by buying a local bulk batch.

Since JC closed any of their liquids "out there" were quickly snapped up in bulk by people and trust me, there is NONE left or at least none in the USA or UK -

I have placed several Facebook posts on several Facebook vape groups asking to buy any unopened bottles

And I eventually found some in India and Georgia (Europe) which I had to buy two bulk orders one from each country via wire transfer which is insanely risky and assuming they arrive, they may be from the time when they were reformulated. Time will tell.
I have read here on these forums that the new reformulated tobaccos from JC just needed time to steep and that the bad reviews were from the totally brand new un-steeped reformulated batches, after a month of steeping they tasted just like the originals. Again, time will tell.

Most people would just find another liquid and adapt but for some reason, I cannot get on with new flavours or new brands either due to the taste or the fact they make me woozy and headachy.

I will let you know if the bulk supplies from India and Georgia arrive and if they smell and taste how I hope they will.

I know the batch from India told me they bought them as soon as they heard JC was closing and bought up as much as they could at the 50% discounted rate. They are selling to me at $40.00 a 30ml bottle - They want me to wire $600.00 plus shipping to them - I haven't done it yet and may not if the stuff from Georgia is as I hope... I do not mind the insane prices they are charging me but $600.00 via wire transfer is a LOT to lose.

The 21 bottles of Domestic and Tennessee Cured from Georgia have already landed in the UK and the customs paid so I am just awaiting delivery any day now. *fingers crossed*