FDA FDA deeming regulation proposals

[Danoman]

The only way I can see is very cumbersome.
Fax a copy of legal ID. Then Skype (with live camera active) the vendor. The vendor compares the photo id that was faxed with the person on skype. Of course that is time consuming, cumbersome and a problem for people with no live camera (Don't know about you guys but my ancient equipment wont do it).

I remember in an online virtual world I was involved with they went to an age verification system where you filled out a form and they used a big data base clearing house firm to verify age. It was such a fuster cluck that my cat could get verified (she was 19 btw).

Then, what they are going to be making is a very serious underground environment for vaping sales, in the end, the government will be hurting themselves and us all. The costs will skyrocket and would prolly be more expensive than a regular analog cigarette by the time it's all done and over with. (I believe, their true core intention)

There are SO many putting down the analog cigarettes and i'm pretty certain the government is feeling it in the tax department from tobacco sales dropping off. They are going to have to get those taxes from somewhere to develop their 'pork' plans and wasteful spending that our fat government is so used to having... (personal opinion, sorry)

 

[Myrany]

Then, what they are going to be making is a very serious underground environment for vaping sales, in the end, the government will be hurting themselves and us all. The costs will skyrocket and would prolly be more expensive than a regular analog cigarette by the time it's all done and over with. (I believe, their true core intention)

There are SO many putting down the analog cigarettes and i'm pretty certain the government is feeling it in the tax department from tobacco sales dropping off. They are going to have to get those taxes from somewhere to develop their 'pork' plans and wasteful spending that our fat government is so used to having... (personal opinion, sorry)

Exactly (10 chars)

 

[Rossum]

How many small companies produce cigerettes or nrt products?

Most small B&Ms produce their own line of e-liquid.

 

[mkbilbo]

It really looks to me like the FDA based much of their proposal on regulating analogs. You called it correctly: What is an "e-cigarette"?

That bothered me off and on all day today. They seem to have listened to the ideological idiots who believe Big Tobacco is behind everything. Never mind the tobacco companies are thrashing and not only can't compete, they don't know where the starting gate is.

So maybe Joytech or Innokin or such are larger companies but the competition is something fierce. To the point it seems they introduce new product on the hour, every hour. Only to get smacked around by Two Guys and/or Gals Inna Garage who birth a Provari. The tobacco companies are incapable of keeping up. Left alone, vaping would destroy them. So the ANTZ are going to save the tobacco companies. Something I would love to rub in their self-righteous faces.

But what I've seen of the regs is geared for a handful of large companies with a rather narrow set of products. Something that does not even begin to describe the vape world. Though the regs could create the world they imagine exists

In the end, the only true "tobacco product" is the nicotine. Asserting regulatory authority over that would make some kind of sense. Asserting authority over an imagined "e-cig"... I dunno, looks like a train wreck waiting to happen.

A wreck that will take out the many, many new small businesses and leave the tobacco giants firmly in charge.

Oh. Goody.

 

[mkbilbo]

If all that doesn't work, take comfort in idea that Glantz didn't like this proposal. Can't you find some solace in that?

There is that. Anything Glantz doesn't like can't be all bad...

 

[EddardinWinter]

I have a question. It is for Jman. Here's a definition for the term you have been dropping here on several posters:

Fear mongering (or scaremongering or scare tactics) is the use of fear to influence the opinions and actions of others towards some specific end.

So what end do these fear mongers you have labeled seek?

It seems to me they simply fear the worst based on the FDA's track record. I understand why they feel the way they do. The FDA isn't going to make another direct assault, since they were pasted the last time they tried. This set of regulations could set the table for a de facto ban of e-liquid. Remember, they aren't obligated to approve any of the liquids. Not one.



Roaring thunderously via Tapatalk...

 

[Talyon]

On a side note, as it now stands Vapeing in the US is legal while the question period is going on 75 days and for about 2 years after the deeming regulations are made into a rule, now the above numbers don't need to be accurate but the statement itself is, Vapeing Is legal in the US until it's deemed otherwise by the FDA. My query is since its recognized as legal per say would PayPal then be allowed to change their policy on ecigs? I'm assuming they had the policy they do because of the uncertainty of legality?

I see it as the FDA has accepted Vapeing kinda as is for the short term ie: Vapeing is not banned.... So couldn't PayPal and or eBay now change their policies if they wanted to?

Thoughts?

 

[Bobbilly]

Most small B&Ms produce their own line of e-liquid.

Someone was talking about fear min geeing over small companies not being able to compete after this deeming reg goes forth. I was asking how many small companies have the resources to introduce a new product under the tobacco act

 

[Katya]

There is that. Anything Glantz doesn't like can't be all bad...

Are you sure?

Start reading--form post #161:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ction-possible-under-regs-9.html#post12971885

 

[EddardinWinter]

On a side note, as it now stands Vapeing in the US is legal while the question period is going on 75 days and for about 2 years after the deeming regulations are made into a rule, now the above numbers don't need to be accurate but the statement itself is, Vapeing Is legal in the US until it's deemed otherwise by the FDA. My query is since its recognized as legal per say would PayPal then be allowed to change their policy on ecigs? I'm assuming they had the policy they do because of the uncertainty of legality?

I see it as the FDA has accepted Vapeing kinda as is for the short term ie: Vapeing is not banned.... So couldn't PayPal and or eBay now change their policies if they wanted to?

Thoughts?

They should change the policies. They probably won't.



Roaring thunderously via Tapatalk...

 

[Danoman]

The problem lies in the fact that they are ranking them as being the same as an analog cigarette but, as we all know, it's a different animal all together. I've read reports before that compare the nicotine alone as no more dangerous than caffeine and what's so dangerous is the combustion able material that a cigarette is made of. The e-cig is totally different and even the very nicotine is a pure form of it and not at all like the nicotine in an actual cigarette. So, there is a night and day difference in the two respectively.

What if they did this to the cola industry...? It's ingested, but it's not regulated nor, do they need to apply to get an FDA regulation because of the caffeine in a soda for each and every flavor those companies develop. It's just really clear to me the intention that the ground is being laid for in the future where vaping is concerned. One way or the other, our government is going to get our money, whether by force or if the industry goes underground, which I expect it will, it court fees and arrests for violating the law, because of the FDA with their thumbs over us.

 

[Danoman]

It's simply (in reality) about the safety and health of a society, it's about the money they can steal from those who make really good, clean and safe products. I mean, look at the difference between a cigarette and ejuice in a machine. Chemically speaking, it's a NO BRAINER. Obviously MUCH better and I believe they know that. Bottom line is... it's about money, taxes and laws to control the public, this isn't a health issue they are pushing, it's about money and control, while they still think they can.

 

[Worzel]

Disposable cigalikes and pre filled cartomizers, I may see a high price to register, to a point that BT may find it pointless to stay in the vapor game. But a cartomizer with nothing in it? What about tanks with nothing in them? Atomizer replacements? Batteries alone? Now, what if device vendors got out of the juice game, and sold devices only, or only separate pieces? For example, an Itaste VTR with no tanks? Those are sold separately. Maybe by a shop that sells those separately? Or two shops within a shop? With the juice, unflavored nicotine base solutions, and a separate shop to buy flavors? Kind of like the saying at last call; "When you leave the parking lot, SCATTER! The cop can't catch us all!
I read a post earlier which may be a good idea to sell PVs and parts with the disclaimer on the box "not suggested for use with nicotine."


Sent from my bird in a moist little package

 

[Gato del Jugo]

You know what the ironic thing about all this is..?

This is energizing & mobilizing the vaping industry & the community, as a whole, in a way we've never seen before..


Over the next 2-3 years, vapers will be stocking up on everything, from extra toppers to extra nic base to extra PVs -- thereby putting even more money into the pockets of vape companies, making them even more powerful in this fight than they otherwise would have become during this time...

It also spurs current full-time vapers to more vigorously "recruit" tobacco users & part-time vapers to make the switch now, thereby increasing our numbers in greater amounts in a shorter amount of time than it otherwise would have occurred, also making us even more powerful in this fight...

Finally, it also spurs more donations of time, money & effort to those who will help fight for us in this war, thereby putting even more resources at their disposal, quicker than it otherwise would have occurred -- again, making them even more powerful in this fight...


We already got burned as smokers before..

But I've got a good feeling we're not going to let it happen a 2nd time as vapers...

 

[thanswr]

It would be the first time they say one thing clearly and then proceed to do the opposite on the backside? All they have to do is conclude that there is no acceptable way to verify age short of face to face and internet sales are gone. They can claim they didn't try to shut down sales but no one has found a legal way to continue them.

There is an acceptable way and the adult entertainment industry has been doing it for years. Old hat to those folks.

If memory serves, you register with a credit card at a service site. The site then does whatever it does to verify your card. They send you an ID number which you use on the adult site.

Sign-for mailings would also work.

 

[Myrany]

There is an acceptable way and the adult entertainment industry has been doing it for years. Old hat to those folks.

If memory serves, you register with a credit card at a service site. The site then does whatever it does to verify your card. They send you an ID number which you use on the adult site.

Sign-for mailings would also work.

Lots of things would work. I have voiced an idea of my own not long ago. The question is will these methods be acceptable to the FDA?

I can think of a way to get past the one you put forth very easily for a minor. I won't type it out here but if you want to know PM me.

 

[thanswr]

Lots of things would work. I have voiced an idea of my own not long ago. The question is will these methods be acceptable to the FDA?

I can think of a way to get past the one you put forth very easily for a minor. I won't type it out here but if you want to know PM me.

There are ways to get around every system. Nothing is foolproof.

I can't see why the current methods wouldn't be acceptable to the FDA. Unless, they get into a case of just being arbitrary and "no, no, no".

Which, IMO, would open the FDA up to a law suit which they will probably lose.

Quite honestly, whatever the FDA does, I can't see China writing off the US market. The problems will be with the US vendors which is what we're fighting for.

 

[mkbilbo]

Are you sure?

Start reading--form post #161:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ction-possible-under-regs-9.html#post12971885

I was being flippant and snarky about Glantz there, not doing analysis of nothin'.

(Lissen, by nature I tend to cynicism and if I don't at least try to lighten up, I could end up some loony "prepper" or something, loading up the freezer and stacking boxes and boxes of wicks, muttering about "da gummint". But the ANTZ ain't happy with the regs. Ima gonna at least enjoy the whining they didn't get their police state this week... not that they won't keep working on it, they are on A Mission from God right?)

 

[MD_Boater]

Edit: It appears that vaping loses any ability whatsoever to even claim that it has any health benefits over traditional smoking. Ummm...Speechless. I see why it took the FDA 4 years to come up with this. It's one huge unsolvable puzzle. A game of snakes and ladders, where every conceivable combo has you back at square 1.

Manufacturers of eCigs cannot say this, but we users can spread that word until the cows come home. Just as they can prohibit manufacturers from saying that sCigs are not a smoking cessation device, but cannot stop me from telling everyone I know that eCigs are the best smoking cessation product I have ever seen. tried, or used. The truth is out there, and they cannot suppress real world evidence.

 

[NorthOfAtlanta]

My first comment to any one who asks is they work. I then go on to explain that I'm a 53 year smoker who quit cigarettes by accident when I tried to cut down by using e-cigarettes. Seems to get their attention.