FDA may soon propose regulation that could ban many/most e-cigarette products, eliminate many/most companies

[Paulette]

Thanks I appreciate the info. I just got paid and went to wizard to buy stuff to see everything I was looking for sold out. It was pretty mortifying.

Frosting, you should also be aware that even if the FDA came out with their "Deeming Regulations" in April, it is not actual law yet. It would be a proposal-type of thing and there would be a subsequent vote 30-90 days down the road.

 

[X P3 Flight Engineer]

Yep, because government intervention has also worked so well for those folks when it comes to education, crime, obesity, drug abuse...even seat belt use.

I think this attitude alienates CASAA from 47% of the people and also several percent of the people who are not in the 47%.

 

[Petrodus]

I personally couldn't care less about polls...
most are not accurate anyway. Might add
I also couldn't care less about Political Correctness.

Government intervention in most cases...
is ineffective and only grows government.

 

[jlew]

Hi all...
I am trying my best to keep my eyes open for news about the FDA garbage but as with
everything (unless of course it pertains to Them making progress or a profit), they are/
will/always have taken their good sweet time...

And you know who is helping them get it done?
The people that want to protect their precious children from everything.

If you are reading this, and you are one of them, please stop being one of them.
The future of our country and our freedom depends on it.

Just be a parent to your children, and leave the rest of us alone.

AMEN!

I believe it is because there are so many people who are afraid to Live that is the cause...
They would rather have someone tell them how to live than to experience it in "Real Time".

There are only a handful of people (in retrospect to the whole world) who realize that this very sort of
thing is necessary for any government to "take over" -- It happened in other countries as a prelude to
dictatorships or war... the gov's of those times helped create and instill fear so the people would look
to their gov's as "Protectors" but were sorely misled...

I want to protect my children but like my parents, I let them make their own mistakes (within reason)
because kids are going to get hurt, dirty, sick, etc., and we cannot Always be there if and when it
happens. This is a fact of life that this generation has long forgotten.

I have said this for a long time... that the biggest problem is there are just too many Wah Wah Babies
out there and way too many Righters... I mean it is more than ok to fight for rights but people
need to use common sense and fight for Personal Rights which affect the self and Justifiable Rights
that affect everyone else (such as what is in the Constitution and Amendments).

The problem = Too many fighting for every little thing they feel is right or wrong based solely on personal
tastes. like. and dislikes!

The Old saying "What is one man's meat, is another man's poison" and "One person's trash, is
another person's treasures" have turned into Selfish Attitude and are now "If I don't like or
agree with it, it must be wrong and therefore, no one can like, dislike, agree, or disagree unless I do".

These types of people have given not only Their Own rights away, but they have given the power to
the government to take control over EVERYONE... and what is most amazing is, these are the same types
that fight fight fight only to realize what they have done is bloodied their OWN noses in the end... then they
become the next set of Cry Babies when their rights have been infringed.

Sorry - should have thought about that before fighting for the wrong things!

Selfishness has become a way of life -- a good example is when people live some place that they see so many
wrong things being done by management -- They scream about it and threaten but when they move, do they
ever do anything so the Next Person doesn't have to deal with it?

Excuse me but whatever happened to Love thy neighbor as thy self... Treat others as you would
have them treat you... Brothers under the skin.... Brothers in Arms... Together We Stand...

All For One and One For All !!! ???

It is like the guy in the Blu commercial says: "We are all adults here. It's time to take back our freedom"

NO gov has any RIGHT to Dictate, but thanks to the namby pambies and whiners, they have that
authority and are being more than gracious to assert it.

My parents tried to protect me from what would harm me and not the whole world... Trying to protect our kids
from the whole world only creates a delusion of safety and effectively creates hypochondriacs and the "Boy in
the plastic bubble" syndrome among our children (as we are seeing in society now).

As Kristin said: "...parents who live with and love a child cannot protect that child from his/her own bad choices..."

EXACTLY! -- They have to make their own mistakes in order to learn from them.


Excuse me flintlock62 -- those phones are meant for those who cannot afford a phone, may have had their
phone cut off, or for whatever reason they may need one... but they are not truly free. They give a set amount
of Free minutes but you still have to pay for more if you need them AND they are locked to only the company that
issued it and you cannot do a whole lot on them but calls in or out and take pictures.


In regards to EVERYONE on Earth -- (so this is not a direct attack or anything of the sort)...

I have to agree with Racehorse ... It makes it difficult for me to feel compassion anyone who is judgmental
toward others who may be part of the working poor, ill, disabled, poverty stricken, or would be in need of a free
phone to call 911 or a make a doctor's appointment for their kids.

I had this argument with someone else at one time who, simply because they have a BF who has a great paying
job, started bashing people who use food stamps all because they "take up all the lines at the store on (that) day".
What I said to this person is that there are people who, for whatever reason, may need the assistance and that
one day, they (the basher) might be in that boat as well... Lets see who hands them an oar.
Needless to say, I deleted them from my contacts lists.

I have absolutely NO sympathy for people who are concerned with their own rights and freedoms but neglect
those of others based on prejudice or bias attitudes.
If you don't like or agree with something, pass by it, don't eat it, leave it alone... but don't kick someone else
unless you have walked in their shoes and know what is going on in their lives.

A Neighbor once told me that when he was laid off, he tried to get help but was denied because he had made
"too much money" in previous months... but as he was leaving their office, he saw someone sitting in the waiting
room with "a gold ring each finger, texting on a $200 iPhone" -- Now that is the kind of person to question.

It's been my experience that people who sense their own fallibility are the strongest and wisest
human beings.

AMEN!
I have seen a lot of that as well -- people who don't like to be judged but are ready to judge others.

Either how canst thou say to thy brother, Brother, let me pull out the mote that is in thine eye, when thou thyself beholdest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thine own eye, and then shalt thou see clearly to pull out the mote that is in thy brother's eye. -- Luke 6:42

You hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of your own eye; and then shall you see clearly to cast out the speck out of your brother's eye. -- Matthew 7:5

HAHA! -- Originally Posted by King James Bible -- I Like That!

The definition of insanity....

LOL! - Like George Carlin said:

When you're born you get a ticket to the freak show. When you're born in America, you get a front row seat.

I was going to post but I'm still waiting for the government to tell me what to say.

HAHA! Maybe I should retract and wait as well



In regards to every supplier being out of stock on many things... I have to agree that it is because of so
many people who fear the FDA's actions and the future of vaping availability...
I too am guilty of this -- I have stocked up on a small amount, maybe enough for a year or so... and I am
still wanting to get more so I can at least be prepared for the worst (2 to 4 years in advance).

To me ... this is a potential "Zombie Apocalypse Scenario" because it could mean the end of something
and for how long, no one knows... and if I can help it, I will NOT go back to "coffin nails/cancer sticks"

I personally couldn't care less about polls...
most are not accurate anyway. Might add
I also couldn't care less about Political Correctness.

Government intervention in most cases...
is ineffective and only grows government.

I'm with you there my good man!

We all see what Government Intervention can do -- Look at Korean affairs right now.

Giving ANY government power to have full control of your life is like giving your 4 year old dynamite
and a Bic!
They have a good idea what to do but aren't fully aware of How to use it appropriately.

 

[kristin]

I think this attitude alienates CASAA from 47% of the people and also several percent of the people who are not in the 47%.

I'm sorry, but what attitude? Are you suggesting that CASAA, as an organization of 4000+ members and 8 directors (all with their own personal viewpoints) doesn't care about low income people or people needing government assistance, because I voiced my personal opinion about government ineptitude and its failure to really make any changes with their laws, rules and regulations? How has the War on Drugs or any of those other government programs and laws I mentioned actually helped those 47%?

Or are you basing your sweeping judgement of "CASAA's attitude" on the fact that flintlock62's post was quoted in my post as a jumping point for my own comment? Because I may have misunderstood his comment to be a dig at those people who were all excited that they were going to get free stuff and the government was going to take care of them after Obama was elected - not a dig at rural poor people who got those emergency phones from that government program.

Honestly, my family income is considered "low income." I'm not some rich snob looking down on the less fortunate or judging people who truly need assistance. Far from it. I'm well aware that people need help sometimes and this is a horrible economy. My family has suffered along with the rest of the country. In the past few years we have been through being uninsured, disability, 4 layoffs, foreclosure and bankruptcy. I feel the pain, too. We have picked ourselves up and kept working hard and but for some state healthcare when my baby was born in 2006 and we had no insurance, we haven't relied on the government to take care of us. We moved to a new city just for work and affordable housing (not government housing). Even now my husband may be facing another layoff and I clip coupons to make ends meet. But that doesn't mean that there aren't too many people who game the system and take what they don't need and people who think the government should give them free tuition, housing, cars, college educations and yes - free cell phones. Unfortunately, I know quite a few of those types of people personally and I don't respect them one bit. Because I believe that the more we ask the government to give us stuff and "take care of us," the more power we give the government control over us. But that in no way reflects my feeling or beliefs about the good character of people who are down on their luck and truly need help. I've been there. And it most certainly does NOT reflect "CASAA's attitude."

For the record then - this is MY personal opinion and is not in any way meant represent CASAA nor the opinions of other CASAA directors, advisers or members.

 

[Caridwen]

No, I think his point is that by using political talking points (i.e. "govt" is bad", "nanny state", etc. etc.)you may turn off or lose support of those that don't share the same political beliefs. Not to speak for anyone else but I assume that's what was meant.

 

[flintlock62]

Kristan,
I couldn't have said it better. I too, am not wealthy. As a matter of fact, I could qualify for one of those phones if I chose to. I choose not to. What it says in my signature, I believe in. [FONT=Tahoma[B]]"A government big enough to give you everything you[/FONT] want, is strong enough to take everything you have."
[/B]

I'm sorry, but what attitude? Are you suggesting that CASAA, as an organization of 4000+ members and 8 directors (all with their own personal viewpoints) doesn't care about low income people or people needing government assistance, because I voiced my personal opinion about government ineptitude and its failure to really make any changes with their laws, rules and regulations? How has the War on Drugs or any of those other government programs and laws I mentioned actually helped those 47%?

Or are you basing your sweeping judgement of "CASAA's attitude" on the fact that flintlock62's post was quoted in my post as a jumping point for my own comment? Because I may have misunderstood his comment to be a dig at those people who were all excited that they were going to get free stuff and the government was going to take care of them after Obama was elected - not a dig at rural poor people who got those emergency phones from that government program.

Honestly, my family income is considered "low income." I'm not some rich snob looking down on the less fortunate or judging people who truly need assistance. Far from it. I'm well aware that people need help sometimes and this is a horrible economy. My family has suffered along with the rest of the country. In the past few years we have been through being uninsured, disability, 4 layoffs, foreclosure and bankruptcy. I feel the pain, too. We have picked ourselves up and kept working hard and but for some state healthcare when my baby was born in 2006 and we had no insurance, we haven't relied on the government to take care of us. We moved to a new city just for work and affordable housing (not government housing). Even now my husband may be facing another layoff and I clip coupons to make ends meet. But that doesn't mean that there aren't too many people who game the system and take what they don't need and people who think the government should give them free tuition, housing, cars, college educations and yes - free cell phones. Unfortunately, I know quite a few of those types of people personally and I don't respect them one bit. Because I believe that the more we give the government power to give us stuff and "take care of us," the more we give the government control over us. But that in no way reflects my feeling or beliefs about the good character of people who are down on their luck and truly need help. I've been there. And it most certainly does NOT reflect "CASAA's attitude."

For the record then - this is MY personal opinion and is not in any way meant represent CASAA nor the opinions of other CASAA directors, advisers or members.

 

[kristin]

No, I think his point is that by using political talking points (i.e. "govt" is bad", "nanny state", etc. etc.)you may turn off or lose support of those that don't share the same political beliefs. Not to speak for anyone else but I assume that's what was meant.

If that is the case, then I'm not sure how political talking points can be left out of this discussion? It is the government's behavior that is directly threatening the future of vaping. It is the "nanny" behavior of the ANTZ that started it all rolling. If CASAA is expected to not "play politics" we may as well close up shop and go home. A huge chunk of what we do involves understanding the politics of our situation.

Again, this is MY personal opinion and is not in any way meant represent CASAA nor the opinions of other CASAA directors, advisers or members.

 

[Petrodus]

This country should ban ... Political Correctness
When the FDA reveals its proposed regulations...
few here will be concerned about PC !!

 

[Caridwen]

I was attempting to explain what I thought Flight Engineer meant by the phrase 47% because your response to him didn't appear that you did. That's all. Not agreeing/disagreeing just rephrasing. No need to dissect my post, I wasn't attempting to argue with you.

 

[kristin]

I was attempting to explain what I thought Flight Engineer meant by the phrase 47% because your response to him didn't appear that you did. That's all. Not agreeing/disagreeing just rephrasing. No need to dissect my post, I wasn't attempting to argue with you.

I know. I was just responding to the interpretation of what you thought he meant. Sorry - that wasn't directed at YOU, but rather directed at the concept if that is what Flight meant.

 

[X P3 Flight Engineer]

I know. I was just responding to the interpretation of what you thought he meant. Sorry - that wasn't directed at YOU, but rather directed at the concept if that is what Flight meant.

I did assume you were speaking with the weight of CASAA behind you because you are one of the spokespersons for the organization. I am glad that you clarified the point that it was your personal opinion, which are certainly all expected and allowed to have.

When the discussion went from e-cigs to cell phones I thought that was a rude comment to make about people who needed assistance (and I also agree that a percentage abuse this) just to show disagreement with the present Government. (and that's just my personal opinion).

My point all along, when people try to make this a political issue, is that it is a Government issue and it doesn't matter if it is Federal, state, provincial, or European Union, and regardless of who is in charge, they are not going to let go of an assured income from an addicted population.

The Political Parties are just that, Parties!! that they are having at our expense.

 

[flintlock62]

Please forgive me for not making my statement clear. It was in reference to the "free loaders"; the one's who are looking for, and feel they deserve free hand outs. I would qualify for one of those free phones because of my current financial situation, however, I choose not to.

The FDA coming ruling is a political issue, but has absolutely nothing to do with any one party.

I did assume you were speaking with the weight of CASAA behind you because you are one of the spokespersons for the organization. I am glad that you clarified the point that it was your personal opinion, which are certainly all expected and allowed to have.

When the discussion went from e-cigs to cell phones I thought that was a rude comment to make about people who needed assistance (and I also agree that a percentage abuse this) just to show disagreement with the present Government. (and that's just my personal opinion).

My point all along, when people try to make this a political issue, is that it is a Government issue and it doesn't matter if it is Federal, state, provincial, or European Union, and regardless of who is in charge, they are not going to let go of an assured income from an addicted population.

The Political Parties are just that, Parties!! that they are having at our expense.

 

[Petrodus]

If that is the case, then I'm not sure how political talking points can be left out of this discussion? It is the government's behavior that is directly threatening the future of vaping. It is the "nanny" behavior of the ANTZ that started it all rolling. If CASAA is expected to not "play politics" we may as well close up shop and go home. A huge chunk of what we do involves understanding the politics of our situation.

Again, this is MY personal opinion and is not in any way meant represent CASAA nor the opinions of other CASAA directors, advisers or members.

Who wrote the rule Political Talking Points shouldn't be included in discussions ??
Probably the same who wrote and or support the Political Correctness laws.

Political Correctness is just another form of mind control
because it limits free exchange of thought. It also forces people
to think they first need to "apologize" or issue a disclaimer...
before speaking ... wouldn't want to offend anyone ... huh !!!!!!!

Few if any are concerned about offending anyone in our movement.
However, we need to be sensitive so not to offend them.

Agree or disagree with what I say ... Fine with Me !!
Tell me I shouldn't say this or I should say that ... Well, now we have an argument.

Political Talking Points
"If the shoe fits ... "
"If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck..."

My disclaimer so not to offend anyone here
I THINK ... therefore I'm neither a Democrat nor Republican

 

[kristin]

Spokesperson for CASAA or not, please note that I wasn't the person who made the actual cell phone comment and in quoting his comment, I took it to mean something very different than a few others did. Some people assumed I, as CASAA, was supporting or making a derogatory comment about the needy and that wasn't the case at all. Knowing all of the work we do trying to help people (and that most smokers are low income and we fight for keeping THR affordable) a little benefit of doubt and asking for clarification before judging me (and CASAA) would maybe have been more fair (and very much appreciated)?

(Personal opinion.)

 

[Petrodus]

Those who are not "plugged in" to Politics, Reality TV News,
and Health Freedom movements ... Are a happier lot.

One can argue "they" should be "plugged in" ...
However, it's difficult to argue they are not a happier lot.

 

[Berylanna]

Few if any are concerned about offending anyone in our movement.
However, we need to be sensitive so not to offend them.

Agree or disagree with what I say ... Fine with Me !!
Tell me I shouldn't say this or I should say that ... Well, now we have an argument.

Political Talking Points
"If the shoe fits ... "
"If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck..."

My disclaimer so not to offend anyone here
I THINK ... therefore I'm neither a Democrat nor Republican

Hey, we're having a neighborhood meeting to try to stop an overhead bridge/walkway from coming in the back of our neighborhood to be part of a 5-mile bike trail. People coming on the bridge could see into all our back yards. Such a bridge already exists, away from private residences, a few blocks away. We are a small neighborhood, even if ALL of us protest and sign petitions, we have a relatively-small chance of success.

I have a right to trash Republicans and Libertarians all I want to, and I DO, in all kinds of settings, in other forums, at dinner, out for wine, but do you really think I should send out invitations that say "Hey, all you intelligent Democrats and really selfish, stupid, tire-burning Republicans, come to my house to talk strategy and see if we can stop this! Bring appetizers and a pen." ?

The answer is presumably "yes" if I don't care about strangers looking into my back yard....or if I never need to ask any neighbors to turn off my gas after the next quake. My VERY FAVORITE neighbor is a Republican, but we find ways to discuss things we both care about without using sentences that have, as an underlying assumption, the idea that the other person is stupid, crazy, or lying.

My favorite phrase for this strategy is what my favorite pastor used to say when something came up in discussion that was a very emotional topic: "People of intelligence and goodwill disagree about that." People on either side of the issue would start to protest, thinking 'how could someone of intelligence...." and he would FIRMLY repeat the sentence.

 

[Petrodus]

Old saying ...
Never argue politics or religion

Number 1 reason is the conversion rate is close to Zero

 

[ad356]

free cell phones...... absurd, why should the tax payers subsidize for people to have cell phones that either do not work or work little. i work full time and make a fairly good wage..... i do not have a cell phone becuase i already have enough debt/bills i do not want to pay $600 per year just for a phone. yes, i do not have a cell phone and i live just fine; it is not a necessity but a want. food stamps, lol they are joke. i have a sister in law who has a family of four and they get $750 per month in food stamps; i do not spend anywhere near $750 per month and i have a family of 3. these people should have to live on $350-400 per month max food stamps. they get so much in food stamps that when their POS vehicle died they bought another POS vehicle and payed for it by giving their buddies $100 per month in food stamps........ thats right they are trading food stamps for a vehicle. the tax payers are subsidizing them to buy a piece of junk automobile. food stamps were clearly not intended for this purpose and they should be jailed or fined for fraud. this kind of thing happens all of the time and it is highly illegal. how about that cash for clunkers BS government program that took taxpayers money to subsidize the purchase of new vehicles. it also took a bunch often good used, running vehicles and destroyed them. cars like old caprices that were still in very nice shape, a car that despite having a 275 hp LT1 V8 and being a lage, comfortable car can still get 23-24 MGP on the open highway and run reliably for hundreds of thousands of miles, probably allot more durable then the super-electronic cars being produced today. there were also plenty of older mustangs, camaros and even a few vettes that were destroyed under this "program", also vehicles like older pickup trucks that were still in good condition. now an older pickup truck might be a gas guzzler and not practical for a car to drive to work they do make a good cheap vehicle for someone who would like to open a construction, landscaping, or farming bushiness. when the government sent all of those cars to the junk yard cars that were already there (older model cars) got crushed to make way for the newer "clunkers". my wife has a 1987 pontiac bonneville, we needed a tail light and i had to car several states away to get one. the car came from florida, and it was a cheap good running car but now it seems like getting parts is getting harder thanks to our government.


i do not like this big government nor do i like the way the like to "flex" their muscles and control every aspect of our lives if they could. it goes against everything this country was founded on.

 

[Petrodus]

Entitlements for Everyone !!
Forget Greece, France and now Cyprus ...
That will never happen here !!