FDA may soon propose regulation that could ban many/most e-cigarette products, eliminate many/most companies

[jlew]

ad356 -- not to argue your point and I can certainly see the point of not giving into the "Freeloaders" but those
phones are quite inexpensive... I pay for my own, which is a TracFone that originally cost $20 and has Double
Minutes for Life so each time I buy a $20 card, I get 120 minutes instead of only 60... those Free Phones work
on the same basic principal and because the Gov gets contracts with such providers (be them car, transport,
education, phone, etc.), they get Heafty Discounts.

So, each of those phones might cost $5 to $10 each and the minutes are probably low rate for government
issued numbers... also, if you run out of the free minutes, you have to pay for any additional you want.

In all actuality, even if the same amount of people who have those phone equals the number who have paid
for their own... I would be willing to bet those phones cost less than half the retail consumer cost...

I see nothing wrong at all in allowing people to have a free, paid for, phone because phone bills are high and
a phone is a necessity for many reasons, especially for medical and emergency and not everyone can afford
$50 to $100 a month for a phone (land or cell).


With this economy and the Sequester - I would rather see the US Gov helping Americans instead of other countries
since they are supposed to help at home before some where else. At least they are doing a little of what they should.

 

[Petrodus]

Every government program can be justified
to one degree or another. Paying for all of them ...
might someday be a concern.

I'm on Social Security so I'm in the loop.
Not really that concerned about loosing entitlements.
Government creates entitlements ... They don't repeal them!

If China cancels our credit card ...
Well, that might create a problem.

 

[rockymtnrobin]

Every government program can be justified
to one degree or another. Paying for all of them ...
might someday be a concern.

I'm on Social Security so I'm in the loop.
Not really that concerned about loosing entitlements.
Government creates entitlements ... They don't repeal them!

If China cancels our credit card ...
Well, that might create a problem.

Cancels the CC and then demands repayment!

 

[Petrodus]

I remember Obama ... before ... he was re-elected
saying the National Debt was UN-patriotic. But then
recent he said its not a pressing concern and won't
be a real issue till well after his term in office ends.

Mmmm ...
I'm soooo confused ??!!

 

[transamspirit]

wasnt the deeming regulations supposed to be "BY" april?
Im certain our government doesnt work weekends.

 

[ad356]

wasnt the deeming regulations supposed to be "BY" april?
Im certain our government doesnt work weekends.

perhaps the inefficiencies of our lovely government will work to our advantage for a change, lol

 

[chrisvapo]

perhaps the inefficiencies of our lovely government will work to our advantage for a change, lol

I sure hope so i only have disposable income from one paycheck pe month.....other 3 for bills gas n food.....i wouldnt mind getting another litre or 2 of nic juice before they taxate the hell out of it or ban it all together.........take your time fda

 

[Agorizer]

<snip>

It's been my experience that people who sense their own fallibility are the strongest and wisest human beings.

So, I do find it interesting how some vapers don't like the judgementalism of the ANTZ etc., don't like being referred to as addicts ---- but seem to have no problem judging other people for ---- whatever......

just a thought

The judgement is on (gov't) control of the undividual; Being against that has nothing to do with being "for or agin'" the downtrodden. It tangentially has to do with the idea that the best way to HELP the less fortunate is to have guys with guns take, by FORCE, that which would be given voluntarily to the TRULY needy in a free society.

No, I think his point is that by using political talking points (i.e. "govt" is bad", "nanny state", etc. etc.)you may turn off or lose support of those that don't share the same political beliefs. Not to speak for anyone else but I assume that's what was meant.

<SNIP>

When the discussion went from e-cigs to cell phones I thought that was a rude comment to make about people who needed assistance (and I also agree that a percentage abuse this) just to show disagreement with the present Government. (and that's just my personal opinion).

My point all along, when people try to make this a political issue, is that it is a Government issue and it doesn't matter if it is Federal, state, provincial, or European Union, and regardless of who is in charge, they are not going to let go of an assured income from an addicted population.

Absolutely; it's not a political issue. It's a philosophical one. My disagreement is not with "this" government; it is with ANY gang (with or without a flag). I'm especially ticked off, however, when the gang who said that their purpose (re-read the Declaration of Independence) was to protect me from the very things that they now DO TO ME!-----The Constitution=that piece of paper that s'posed to keep them from doing all of the things they do.

Those who are not "plugged in" to Politics, Reality TV News,
and Health Freedom movements ... Are a happier lot.

One can argue "they" should be "plugged in" ...
However, it's difficult to argue they are not a happier lot.

Why Oh Why didn't I take the BLUE pill!

Entitlements for Everyone !!
Forget Greece, France and now Cyprus ...
That will never happen here !!

It has already happened. It's only because of the legacy of the "dollar" as "the" reserve currency, and the ability to quantitatively ease (that is, create funds "ex-nihilo") that the results have been delayed (not averted).

 

[Petrodus]

It has already happened. It's only because of the legacy of the "dollar" as "the" reserve currency, and the ability to quantitatively ease (that is, create funds "ex-nihilo") that the results have been delayed (not averted).

True ...
That's why I got out of the stock market years ago and invested in gold/silver.
The only thing that will put an end to this government's insanities is
the collapse of the dollar.

 

[Racehorse]

I'm not sure how political talking points can be left out of this discussion?

Kristin, it can't, and I was not asking. My point was precisely that they ARE "talking points", and additionally, those that seem to populate these discussions almost make it look like CASAA is a partisan organization?

Political Correctness is just another form of mind control
because it limits free exchange of thought.

So are over-worn cliches like "nanny state", "sheeple" etc.

Canned talking points are rather mind-numbing in their redundancy, and limit free exchange of thought, because they don't even qualify as "thinking". They only require mimicry.

Intelligent people are weary of canned anger and canned phrases....that's all they hear on TV and Radio and have become either immune or annoyed at the vapidness. Let's leave this stuff to Kim Kardashian and Forrest Gump.

Ditto the anti-government-throw-the-baby-out- with- the- bathwater diatribes. I do not relish reading a full-blown anti-government screed that has no relevance to the topic of vaping, every time I want to tune into what is happening with ecig legislation.

(I say this "assuming" that we are working within the present framework of the United States of America ....not trying to overthrow it. Since I happen to believe there are many good things that it actually does accomplish for us. Perhaps those who want to take the United States to task about a million other things can start a separate topic on those issues.....or .......... start a new Republic. )

This is what happens when decision makers in the FDA were also decision makers in pharmaceutical corporations.

I would like to see more studies done by independent 3rd parties with absolutely no immersion or financial ties to the vaping industry, lest we run this same risk.

My point in posting was that it requires focus to solve a problem, focusing on what specifically can be done to secure our vaping rights...... what studies are in the pipe, and what vendors and consumers can do to help accomplish this.

I'm just not interested in hype or PR. My background in grantwriting taught me the importance of specificity. Certain "proofs" are required. If you're writing a federal grant to Robert Wood Johnson Foundation for a health care facility for morbidly obese children, they aren't the least bit "snowed" by wordy emotional submissions....they want deliverables: facts and figures.)

I just want links to hard science independent studies that I can print out and send to my legislators. I have absolutely no intention of writing to Rush Limbaugh about ecigs. I would just like to see that conversations securing our vaping rights accommodate the entire electorate and not made into a partisan political football.......if that is the case then I can't be involved, mainly because I am not affiliated with any ONE political party. I'm sure there are others like me who would find this off-putting.

Speaking of grants, what is the grantwriting activity at CASAA or related orgs to fund independent studies on the safety of vaping, flavorings, silica wick, etc.? Donations don't seem like the best way to fund studies, esp. if they are funded by those inside our own industry. Forgive me if I've missed an important component. Donations will never be plentiful enough to fund studies of this magitude, unless Big Tobacco (Lorilard/Blu Ecigs) is involved.

Hopefully everything about the pre-2/15/07 prototypes will be public knowledge soon, and it will be that much less legal hassle for the suppliers who are looking to seek approval.

Well the patents are out there, like for the REO. Seems like all this stuff would be on file at this point, for comparison. It would show that nothing really has changed in the actual "concept" of heated coils onto which eliquid is placed.

I also wonder if the protective stance of eliquid companies who fail to disclose what exactly is in their eliquids (to their customers) will not end up hurting them in the longrun? Non-disclosure tends to be injurious in cases where we are trying to prove that stuff is safe, as it makes it look like we're "hiding" something?

Anyway, Kristin, no beef with you, or anyone else.....we all want the same thing with regard to vaping.


I understand that a well known liberal actor, who is also a heart-throb, stars in a widely release movie in which he "vapes" pretty much during it's entirety. Seems like something like THAT lends a whole lot more mainstream recognition of vaping to the world. ?? (Johnny Depp Vaping an Electronic Cigarette in “The Tourist” who allegedly petitioned to have his character smoke electronic cigarettes (like he himself does)). Maybe write him a thank you letter.

I can only hope that John Voight will start vaping in public to help our cause.

 

[Racehorse]

If China cancels our credit card ...
Well, that might create a problem.

YOu are 100% RIGHT!

 

[TTK]

There is no "China Credit card." China is not doing us any favors financially. Whatever they invest in the USA they do so because they believe it to be a good investment. Nothing more to it.

 

[Petrodus]

There's no China credit card ??????



He was saying $9 Trillion was unpatriotic then ...
What is the debt now ?? ... Over $16.7 Trillion

 

[Racehorse]

There is no "China Credit card." China is not doing us any favors financially. Whatever they invest in the USA they do so because they believe it to be a good investment. Nothing more to it.

Of course they are operating in their own self-intrest. They're a prolific buyer of U.S. debt (Treasury Bonds) .

But, in essence, it is like a favor if you ask me, TTK......if it isn't then see how easy it would be to find somebody else to buy $1 trillion and counting, of our debt. You would mostly have to convince everyone that our Treasuries are 100% safe.......not to mention the terribly low interest rate they will get on them now.

It's symbiotic now, we need their factories and cheap labor, we pay for them on credit......but if they decided to cash in you will see some pretty DIRE circumstances for us, the least being that interest rates would go thru the roof.

What happens on the day that China no longer feels this investment is in their best interest? Do you think somebody else will take it on?

 

[Petrodus]

What happens on the day that China no longer feels this investment is in their best interest? Do you think somebody else will take it on?

Probably the main reason our politicians talk tough
about putting pressure on China ... Then do Nothing !!

 

[kristin]

Kristin, it can't, and I was not asking. My point was precisely that they ARE "talking points", and additionally, those that seem to populate these discussions almost make it look like CASAA is a partisan organization?

That comment wasn't directed at anything you said, but at something someone else said?

CASAA's board is made up of (if I'm remembering correctly, because we've never made it an issue) Democrats (4), Republicans (1), Libertarians (2), liberal-leaning Independent(1) and one I'm not sure of, but he's probably more of a fiscally conservative/socially liberal Independent. If it's anything, the board and organization is not "partisan." We have some WIDELY different views on politics and I am proud to say we come together over those differences for the sake of the cause. It keeps us quite balanced.

People who have been following all of our battles know that the only reason that specific parties ever really get mentioned by CASAA is because, over the past 4 years, the vast majority of proposed bans have been introduced by Democrats and we've occasionally approached opposing parties to fight the bills. CASAA fights bad laws regardless of which party the sponsors are in. It's really not our fault that so many of these things seem to come from Democrats, but it is hard not to "play politics" when so many politicians introducing these laws are from one side of the fence. Trust me, it pains the Democrats on the CASAA board that it seems we are coming up against their own party all of the time. But please note that CASAA has not jumped into endorsing or condemning any politicians or political parties based on their e-cigarette politics. We don't say, "Don't vote for Party A or Candidate B because they oppose e-cigarettes." We just know that one effective way to kill a bad bill from one party (that won't listen to you) is to approach someone from the opposing party to fight for you. We don't care what party you are in. If you are a politician trying to ban, tax or restrict safer alternatives for smokers, we are going to fight you.

 

[TTK]

Of course they are operating in their own self-intrest. They're a prolific buyer of U.S. debt (Treasury Bonds) .

But, in essence, it is like a favor if you ask me, TTK......if it isn't then see how easy it would be to find somebody else to buy $1 trillion and counting, of our debt. You would mostly have to convince everyone that our Treasuries are 100% safe.......not to mention the terribly low interest rate they will get on them now.

It's symbiotic now, we need their factories and cheap labor, we pay for them on credit......but if they decided to cash in you will see some pretty DIRE circumstances for us, the least being that interest rates would go thru the roof.

What happens on the day that China no longer feels this investment is in their best interest? Do you think somebody else will take it on?

"Most of the news headlines focus on how much the U.S. owes China. And, in fact, China is the largest foreign owner of U.S. debt. However, the biggest single owner is ... you. Why? Because the single largest holder of national debt is the Social Security Trust Fund, aka your retirement money.
The breakout of foreign-held debt shows that China was the largest holder, at $1.161 trillion (as of October 2012, most recent data). Japan came in second, at $1.134 trillion. The oil exporting countries have been increasing their holdings, and have edged up to become #3 at at $266 billion. The Caribbean Banking Centers have also increased their holdings in recent years, and are now fourth, holding $258 billion. The Bureau of International Settlements has stated that the Caribbean centers, Luxembourg (at $139 billion) and Belgium ($133 billion) are probably fronts for oil-exporting countries and hedge funds that don't want to reveal their positions. Brazil is the fifth largest holder, at $255 billion. The next largest holders are Taiwan, Switzerland, Russia, Hong Kong and the United Kingdom, holding between $117-$201 billion each." So, China has less than 10% of our debt. The China card is mostly politics. Read more here

 

[Racehorse]

Thank you for the thoughtful response, Kristin.

I am proud to say we come together over those differences for the sake of the cause.

Sounds like what we're all doing.

 

[Racehorse]

"Most of the news headlines focus on how much the U.S. owes China. And, in fact, China is the largest foreign owner of U.S. debt. However, the biggest single owner is ... you.

Not sure how that disputes anything that has been said here. You added information that we, the American people, are also creditors.

Which is true, but not sure how that is germane to your statement entering this topic, specifically, that "there is no china credit card."

Nevermind, we've gone off topic here anyway.

 

[TTK]

Not sure how that disputes anything that has been said here. You added information that we, the American people, are also creditors.

Which is true, but not sure how that is germane to your statement entering this topic, specifically, that "there is no china credit card."

Nevermind, we've gone off topic here anyway.

You are right , it is off topic. Just like to put the China card in perspective to show it is not what many people believe, at about 7% of our debt, with Japan just about the same. But, you never hear about the "Japan card".