FDA may soon propose regulation that could ban many/most e-cigarette products, eliminate many/most companies

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flintlock62

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That makes two of us. I thought the deficit was supposed to be taken care of in the 1st term. What's the solution? Raise the debt ceiling!

I remember Obama ... before ... he was re-elected
saying the National Debt was UN-patriotic. But then
recent he said its not a pressing concern and won't
be a real issue till well after his term in office ends.

Mmmm ...
I'm soooo confused ??!!
:p
 

Berylanna

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I'm just not interested in hype or PR. My background in grantwriting taught me the importance of specificity. Certain "proofs" are required. If you're writing a federal grant to Robert Wood Johnson Foundation for a health care facility for morbidly obese children, they aren't the least bit "snowed" by wordy emotional submissions....they want deliverables: facts and figures.)

The ONLY positive third-party stuff I've seen appears to be on the topic of schizophrenics and vaping vs smoking. I'd LOVE to see someone study what happens to the level of second-hand-smoke when you give vaping kits to every smoker in a very low-income apartment complex, maybe we could get a fire safety grant. But generally, who puts money into an area where they have no interest?

I just want links to hard science independent studies that I can print out and send to my legislators. I have absolutely no intention of writing to Rush Limbaugh about ecigs.

CASAA's link to "Printable Materials" is darned good, and I've been cherry-picking from there, and ALSO was suggesting that for the California case we call "dibs" on things so different materials are coming from different people.

BUT...I really think that the mindset of the legislators in question should be addressed IN ADDITION to the factual materials, because they need a positive reason to vote the other way when the issue in question is not an outright ban, but only a disincentive like a tax or a not-in-smoking-areas issue or a no-internet-sales issue. And positive reasons DO vary between parties and states. A reason like "freedom" that might play very well in a conservative state, unfortunately, sounds too much like the NRA in states like California, where "NRA" is a 4-letter word.(*) On the other hand, it might be entertaining to ask "Progressive" legislators to give us a "green" rebate for not creating carbon dioxide, and then reluctantly settle for having them do nothing (as opposed to banning or taxing us.)

My point is that we need ALL of us in order to talk effectively to talk to ALL of the decision-makers.

Speaking of grants, what is the grantwriting activity at CASAA or related orgs to fund independent studies on the safety of vaping, flavorings, silica wick, etc.?

All of the people who OUGHT to want to give grants are against us. All of the people who MIGHT want to give us grants would taint us by their association with us. If you can think of good targets for grant-writing, PLEASE email board@casaa.org. Make your Subject line a grabber! (No, I'm not on the board. I just have a cousin who used to be amazing at grant-writing for a school for juvenile delinquents.)


(*) My NRA instructor was a 4-foot 11-inch Japanese grandmother married to a champion target shooter who specialized in destroying small orange dots in black circles on paper. She also taught gun safety to the police, and lost a former student to some other officers who had not had the same safety trainer.

I myself sometimes defend myself from small orange dots. And I'm a lifetime liberal Democrat.
 

2coils

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I've often wondered about that.
AS a democrat it pains me as well. Though I never remember the Nanny Government being this bad! Regulations have been way over the top. And the open checkbook needs to be taken away. I may have to reconsider my political position moving forward (not just because of e-cigs).
 

kristin

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Personally, (this is just me) I affiliated with the Democrats (both parents were liberal Democrats, as well) until my early 40's, but my work with CASAA opened my eyes to so many things going on with our government and the world that I'm now a Libertarian (fiscally conservative, socially center.) For example, I support gay marriage rights (or rather that the government has no business regulating marriage, just civil union) and I also support Second Amendment rights, but I am against big government regulating every aspect of our lives and taxing us for "taking care" of us from cradle to grave - especially when it comes to prohibitionist behavior like the war on drugs and tobacco (which have failed miserably.) I'm pretty much politically schizophrenic, LOL! ;)
 

Caridwen

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Kristin, it can't, and I was not asking. My point was precisely that they ARE "talking points", and additionally, those that seem to populate these discussions almost make it look like CASAA is a partisan organization?

I can't tell you how many messages I've gotten from people asking this question.
 

Petrodus

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AS a democrat it pains me as well. Though I never remember the Nanny Government being this bad! Regulations have been way over the top. And the open checkbook needs to be taken away. I may have to reconsider my political position moving forward (not just because of e-cigs).
These old eyes have seen a lot...including war (Viet-Nam)
It wasn't always this bad.
 

kristin

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I can't tell you how many messages I've gotten from people asking this question.

Now you can direct them to my post about it. :)

I think the problem is that a lot of people who don't know the history of this fight may misunderstand some comments made referencing political affiliations. If you aren't aware that the majority of these anti-ecig laws have been originating with Democrat legislators, you may think CASAA is picking sides, but that isn't the case at all. Its just who we've been fighting the most. Its not like the Republican legislators are banning e-cigarettes just as much and CASAA is just picking on the Democrats. I'm pretty sure as the tobacco industry starts lobbying for their e-cigs, we'll be seeing ourselves fighting Republicans more. As a Libertarian myself, I obviously don't favor either one of those parties! ;)
 

Berylanna

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Now you can direct them to my post about it. :)

I think the problem is that a lot of people who don't know the history of this fight may misunderstand some comments made referencing political affiliations. If you aren't aware that the majority of these anti-ecig laws have been originating with Democrat legislators, you may think CASAA is picking sides, but that isn't the case at all. Its just who we've been fighting the most. Its not like the Republican legislators are banning e-cigarettes just as much and CASAA is just picking on the Democrats. I'm pretty sure as the tobacco industry starts lobbying for their e-cigs, we'll be seeing ourselves fighting Republicans more. As a Libertarian myself, I obviously don't favor either one of those parties! ;)

While I agree that the history is important and the Democrats (except in Utah?) seem to be the easiest for the ANTZ to sway, I do not think I should have to wade through a lot of posts that insult me if I think Obama is a good President, or that Democrats have almost always been drastically more fiscally responsible than Republicans, or that being educated is OK for me, in order to get the information to fight the ANTZ. I do it because I care a lot about this topic, but I have ZERO trouble understanding why we are losing a big chunk of my fellow Democrats from the fight. And guess what? "As California goes, so goes the nation" means throwing away your Democratic allies is like throwing away your sandbags before a flood. (Yeah, Democrats as sandbags, I thought y'all would like that :) )

When the internet was in its infancy pre-WWW, such off-topic posting was called spam and punishable by having your internet connection severed -- since you could not get onto the internet without buying a commercial-grade computer and learning how to handle USENET yourself AND paying for a commercial-grade phone line into an expensive ISP, internet access was by the grace of your University or job. So if you kept posting fiscal stuff to the gender issues forums or gender issues to the fiscal forums, 10,000 people would send a complaint email to root@ your domain, which would bring down the mail system for the entire University or corporation, and the local sysadmin would cut you off to protect the computers.

SOME of the issue with trying to over-regulate us is a side-effect of fiscal conservatives deciding that only those who use a service should pay for it, AND deciding that people who take medicine and eat food and work for a living are NOT the people who "use" the services, but rather drug companies, food growers and their chemical vendors. So now the FDA's customer really truly is BP, and the FDA has become their paid guns.

You can say that without regulation this would not happen, and I can say that without "privatization" it could not happen.

I think it is a LONG discussion that belongs in the "OUTSIDE" section of ECF. Some say they should not have to avoid hurting Democrats' feelings. Other say good manners should not be considered a giant hardship, and it is not "stifling" people to ask them to stay on topic for the thread.
 
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