FDA proposes BANNING ONLINE SALES of electronic cigarettes

[Oliver]

AS reported overnight in a Wall Street Journal (and elsewhere), the FDA has raised the possibility that they may ban the online sales of electronic cigarettes as part of its regulatory actions, which will come into force once they have 'deemed' e-cigarettes to be Substantially Equivalent to tobacco products, probably this fall. Further, they are proposing that where e-cigarettes are lawfully sold, they are sold only to those aged 19 and over.

[update] Please do not email/phone the FDA direct. This will likely be counterproductive at this time. Instead, please contact your state and federal representatives. Please also consider joining CASAA, your friendly local consumer advocates.

http://casaa.org/

Banning online sales would, of course, decimate the industry and destroy the amazing pace of innovation we've been witnessing over the last 5 years.

Things we don't know from the article:

1. Whether they have the authority to ban online sales under the provisions of the act.

2. Whether this is being mooted, or if it's a done deal (as far as they're concerned).

3. Whether restricting online sales will require an amendment to the PACT act (and whether or not this is already in play)

4. What the policy is regarding everything else (flavorings, e-liquids versus sealed units, nicotine strength, ingredient specifications etc).

5. Whether the age restriction will also be imposed on tobacco cigarettes.

Regarding the last point, raising the age of sale to 19 year olds seems bizarre if its not being done with a commensurate raising of tobacco age limits. Essentially, they're raising the bar on a product that is vastly less harmful, while leaving the product it intends to replace untouched.

Also, from the article, it's clear that they have no doubts that they will be deeming E-Cigarettes as tobacco products in the near future.

I will leave it to others to fill in the blanks (Bill?), but below are a few links for anyone who needs background information on what's happening here:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...2013-e-cigarettes-other-tobacco-products.html

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...on-food-drug-law-institute-conference-dc.html

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-cigs-other-unregulated-tobacco-products.html

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-cigarettes-could-public-health-disaster.html

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-more-tax-hikes-new-report-press-release.html

Please note, I will be pruning this thread to keep comments on topic.

 

[Barbara21]

If their goal is to stop sales to children (yeah, right), they could accomplish the same thing by requiring a credit card for purchase (since you have to legally be eighteen to have a credit card).

But I don't really see how they can stop hardware. People will just start developing an interest in flashlights. $36.11 TECS MSK-2000 Variable VW OLED E-Cigarette Mod Battery Compartment w/ LED Flashlight - brown / 0.55" OLED / 1*18650 / 1*18350 / 2*18350 at FastTech - Worldwide Free Shipping

 

[Oliver]

Barbara, you have of course, shone a flashlight on one of several elephants in the room, namely:

Online sales will not stop if they are banned in the US. They will simply move offshore, and all the 'quality control' measures (those which form the bedrock of regulations to being with) are rendered impotent.

 

[CES]

Will there be a comment period, and who do we contact to oppose this?

 

[Oliver]

CES, according to Bill Godshall in a previous thread, there will be a period following the 'deeming' proposals.

He mentions 6 months, but I'm not clear on the timeline.

 

[retired1]

Considering most financial institutions will issue a debit card to minors who have an account with them, the credit card argument doesn't fly any longer. Most merchant accounts will accept a debit cards if they're associated with Visa or Mastercard (which many are).

 

[Barbara21]

I have to admit that this goes way beyond what I thought they'd try to do.

Regulating nicotine juice? Much as I hate to admit it, I can see that (to a certain limited extent).

But the hardware??!!!?! Batteries, wire, wick, tanks - do they really think they can stop the sale of any of these??

This whole thing just doesn't make any sense.

 

[CES]

CES, according to Bill Godshall in a previous thread, there will be a period following the 'deeming' proposals.

He mentions 6 months, but I'm not clear on the timeline.

So we'll have some time to continue to fight and to stock up.

I hope this turns out to be just a public relations ploy. Especially because (as was already noted) even if proposed, an internet sales ban is not particularly enforceable.

 

[drsocal]

Not to sound like a negative nancy over here but I gotta tell ya, I don't think it looks good for us...

 

[SyncVaper]

Erm... Well, start marketing them tanks as perfume bottles..

 

[dr g]

I think it's mighty convenient how a billion-dollar industry has been built mostly by small business, and now the government is looking to take away their ability to sell to the national market. This will push distribution back to large companies with physical presences in many states ... if ever there was a mechanism to rescue big business's tobacco cash cow this is it. Absolutely distressing and disgusting.

 

[low_tar_neil]

Well, certainly provides some interesting new talking points for the CASAA meeting with the FDA on Monday.

 

[EddardinWinter]

Let's assume this irrational angle is the one they are taking, and this is a trial baloon on the upcoming deeming regulations. Let's start skewering the logic right now!

Post to FB, write local and national publications, make fun of this absurdity and lets go on the attack! Take the fight TO these fascist pigs!

Tapped out

 

[snork]

Vaping is one of the greatest things that's ever come into my life. If anybody starts messing with it I will not stand for it.

 

[Mac]

I predicted this 4 years ago. Despite that I feel this can be fought. I urge anyone who has not already to join CASAA. I urge anyone who has a favorite online vendor to send them an email with a link to this page and ask them what they intend to do to fight to stay in business. If you haven't been writing to your political representatives and would like to continue to enjoy discounted prices online you might want to start.

Expect a flood of B&M and kiosk openings in the coming year. This is better then an outright ban. But it's still complete BS.

 

[Proetus]

All this means is that they will be putting alot of American Business's out of business. They can not stop us from buying from Health Cabin and Fasttech. They also can not stop the sale of components of DIY, wire, wick etc. We'll all be using RBA type devices.

 

[gmb225]

so if they ban online sales does that mean ill still be able to buy at my local vape store?

 

[Mac]

so if they ban online sales does that mean ill still be able to buy at my local vape store?

Yes and no. Expect prices to skyrocket on anything good and far more aggressive offerings to appear at gas stations and c stores. Expect innovation to slow to a crawl. Expect a flood of cheap, poorly QC'd crap being direct retailed from other countries. Expect 60% of USA made juice to vanish overnight. Also expect this to be fought in court much like their import ban. That's assuming this isn't a small part of a wider attack to regulate them into oblivion which could still be their goal. If bottled juice is banned for example, a good half of today's best equipment will be rendered too cost prohibitive to use.

I don't suggest that anyone assume it will all work for the best and would urge everyone to get involved in anyway they can. It's time for our industry to fight for it's survival, again.

 

[Awkwardly Awesome]

In Minnesota, the state already considers it to be a tobacco product, B&M's are required to have a tobacco license to sell e-juice. But they wouldn't need one if they only sold hardware. So I feel like the only thing that the FDA could actually ban from online sales is e-juice. But realistically, if they are going to do anything to internet sales, they should just require all vendors to use age verification services.

 

[Oliver]

This whole business is 'humpty dumpty' regulation - "it is what it is because I say it is".

In the first instance, the FDA said e-cigs were medicines, and were told in no uncertain terms in court that they are not.

Now they are saying they're tobacco products, but no-one seems to be challenging this. They are no more tobacco products than Cola is a coffee product.

Pure Humpty Dumpty, and if they decide the hardware is also a tobacco product it'll be just as absurd, but no more so.