we will still be able to get the batteries even in the most strict regulations because of flashlight mods I think. But what about tanks, carts, attys, ect. ? These aren't e cigs nor do they have nicotine in them. Also, could they even regulate nicotine solution? That issomething that has me worried. If they made it so you had to have a lisence or something to buy concentrated nic juice. In which case, wouldnt that make it a controlled substance lol. Much appreciated for any clarification.
fda regulation
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Luckily the whole concept of atomizers and mods are very simple and can be made with generic goods purchased at a local hardware store if need be lol
If you want to continue to be able to vape as you do today, I would suggest you go to the CASAA web site and become a supporting member. You will find the information that will explain the concerns about the FDA's "deeming" regulations and how it can affect your ability to vape.
Where there's a will there's a way. Who cares what the FDA has to say about it, the idea that they are out for our best interest is a joke anyway.
A "ban" per se isn't what worries me. The gov't WANTS smokers to smoke, without the revenue from the taxation, they'd be broke. We're going on with our "new" habits tax-free...... which is why theres a buzz about it. There's no special licenses for analogs, which contain umpteen more chemicals, so I don't see anyone being required to hold a license for a controlled substance. The part that worries me is they will eventually try to tax the #$%& out of it; when they figure out a way to deem it a tobacco product.
I wouldn't worry about legality either, if I can drive around Massachusetts with an ounce of "glaucoma medication" and not get arrested for it I don't think e-cigs will make the black list any time soon.
I wouldn't worry about legality either, if I can drive around Massachusetts with an ounce of "glaucoma medication" and not get arrested for it I don't think e-cigs will make the black list any time soon.
I'm afraid you don't know the history behind the FDA's attempts to ban vaping out-right in 2009-2010 and their motivation, which had nothing to do with taxes. They went to court 6 times in that effort alone. And although it is less likely now that they could accomplish an out-right ban, the "deeming" regulations they are proposing would be as close to a ban as they can get without a complete ban.
There are powerful interests aligned against vaping. Every vaper who wants to continue to vape as you do today, would be foolish not to join and support CASAA.
^^ Agreed, Big Tobacco has big pockets, powerful lobbyists, powerful interest and a lot of pull in Washington. They are who I worry about to be honest. Well, them and all the politicians in bed with them. They cannot like this, even though I don't know about the attempted ban, I'm going to educate myself now.
Although BT is not our friend and appears to be supportive of deeming regulations for their own monopolizing interests, the bigger threat is from Big Pharm. They are funding much of the anti-vaping propaganda.
Yeah, that doesn't surprise me either, with Chantix. Forgot about them, sorry, monster headache and half asleep at the keyboard.
Money is the bottom line, specifically big tobacco money. I have no doubt we will see the day when if we want DIY nic then, we will have to get it from BT. They can ban flavored juice, but, they can't ban flavorings, at worst we;ld buy nic at a fairly high cost from BT, then have to but concentrated flavor drops sold for beverages to flavor it ourselves. That's about the worst they can do. Even then I don't think that will stop imports from China to individuals in small quantities. Plain, unlabeled package like my nic comes in anyway. Good luck FDA, where there is a will, there is a way and, we will find it no matter what they do.
And actually, This affects big tobacco just as much. The rumor that I've been hearing is that they are losing so much money they're going to be pushing their e-cig products to "take back" their share of a market that they've lost. I've seen head shops in Sand Diego go from only Tobacco/Hookah transition with half the shop tobacco products and half e-cig supplies, with a majority of their profits coming from e-cig products. I can only assume it the markup at these B&M places. But it's not about the product. It's about a choice that some of us have made that is under scrutiny, and how the government can regulate it without knowing full facts.
As a friend told me, who hasn't converted, but still smokes a pack a day:
"They (the government) banned alcohol and repealed it. Who's to say that they'd do the same for e-cigs. If they ban one, they might as well ban em all. I, for one, am not going to sit here and have them tell me it's not safe, when we (smokers) have always known the harm in them. It's our choice."
As a friend told me, who hasn't converted, but still smokes a pack a day:
"They (the government) banned alcohol and repealed it. Who's to say that they'd do the same for e-cigs. If they ban one, they might as well ban em all. I, for one, am not going to sit here and have them tell me it's not safe, when we (smokers) have always known the harm in them. It's our choice."
For me there are huge parallels between online poker and ecigs.
The B&M casino industry was losing money because people could play poker from the comfort of their homes, so they pushed (and paid) legislators to shut Full Tilt and PokerStars down here in the US. Spreading fear about how children were going to become gambling addicts was their preferred way to change hearts and minds. Now, the big casino conglomerates here are working at getting online poker established for themselves with the "blessing" of the US government.
$$$
Big Tobacco is losing money because people are trying ecigs and not going back to traditional tobacco products. They are pushing to get ecigs heavily regulated now by spreading nonsense about how ecigs are more dangerous than cigarettes and how the flavors of eliquid are designed to addict children to nicotine so that they will switch to traditional cigarettes. Once ecigs are regulated so heavily that the average citizen can't easily get their hands on a quality vaping product, Big Tobacco can push their own crappy ecigs and dominate the market by selling them at all of their tobacco vendors. (And the worse that product is, the more likely people will be to switch back to analogs.)
$$$
Unfortunately this country is run by big business and that likely won't change in my lifetime. However, if we stay educated on the topic, educate people on the truth of ecigs when they are brainwashed by Big Tobacco's (and Big Pharma's) lies, and fight as a group (an exponentially growing group, I might add) we can end up having an effect on the future of vaping. It will take some effort to get actual facts about ecigs into the brains of people who believe everything they hear on the local news (and into the money-clogged ear canals of our federal legislators) but we have to make that effort or millions upon millions of smokers will continue to die from smoking related disease.
Support CASAA, but also educate yourself so that when you hear someone parroting nonsense about the dangers of ecigs you can help to change their outlook. Every mind you change can result in many more minds being changed when that person you educated does the same for someone else.
I need a vape.
The B&M casino industry was losing money because people could play poker from the comfort of their homes, so they pushed (and paid) legislators to shut Full Tilt and PokerStars down here in the US. Spreading fear about how children were going to become gambling addicts was their preferred way to change hearts and minds. Now, the big casino conglomerates here are working at getting online poker established for themselves with the "blessing" of the US government.
$$$
Big Tobacco is losing money because people are trying ecigs and not going back to traditional tobacco products. They are pushing to get ecigs heavily regulated now by spreading nonsense about how ecigs are more dangerous than cigarettes and how the flavors of eliquid are designed to addict children to nicotine so that they will switch to traditional cigarettes. Once ecigs are regulated so heavily that the average citizen can't easily get their hands on a quality vaping product, Big Tobacco can push their own crappy ecigs and dominate the market by selling them at all of their tobacco vendors. (And the worse that product is, the more likely people will be to switch back to analogs.)
$$$
Unfortunately this country is run by big business and that likely won't change in my lifetime. However, if we stay educated on the topic, educate people on the truth of ecigs when they are brainwashed by Big Tobacco's (and Big Pharma's) lies, and fight as a group (an exponentially growing group, I might add) we can end up having an effect on the future of vaping. It will take some effort to get actual facts about ecigs into the brains of people who believe everything they hear on the local news (and into the money-clogged ear canals of our federal legislators) but we have to make that effort or millions upon millions of smokers will continue to die from smoking related disease.
Support CASAA, but also educate yourself so that when you hear someone parroting nonsense about the dangers of ecigs you can help to change their outlook. Every mind you change can result in many more minds being changed when that person you educated does the same for someone else.
I need a vape.
I agree with most that's been said so far, but I disagree with those who don't think for one second the government entity doesn't have anything to do with regulation and taxation income. Sure, the big tobacco companies and pharma (which I didn't even consider originally) have a stake in it, but no one comes close to the size of the stakes government has. Keep in mind that while big tobacco has much to loose, it's not only them that we are feeding when we buy cigarettes. BT only keeps like 14% of the profit or something. (I don't have the exact numbers). The rest goes to Uncle Sam. So essentially, when you buy a pack of cigarettes, you are buying them from the federal government. So, not only do you have to fight BT alone, a combined team of the federal government AND BT is against e-cigs.
If the FDA or any other government agency really gave two craps about your health, we wouldn't even be having this conversation right now. Instead there would be legends, talking of people that used to inhale smoke ON PURPOSE, and we would all be sitting here dumbfounded wondering if it were actually true.
EDIT: Also don't forget about all the smaller tobacco farms that are now out of business. The ones that didn't feed the big three were simply regulated into the ground. So don't plan on growing your own tobacco either. Soon, that will be regulated and outlawed just like the other natural plant. Whatever it takes to have total control. That's all it is, and all that it ever will be.
If the FDA or any other government agency really gave two craps about your health, we wouldn't even be having this conversation right now. Instead there would be legends, talking of people that used to inhale smoke ON PURPOSE, and we would all be sitting here dumbfounded wondering if it were actually true.
EDIT: Also don't forget about all the smaller tobacco farms that are now out of business. The ones that didn't feed the big three were simply regulated into the ground. So don't plan on growing your own tobacco either. Soon, that will be regulated and outlawed just like the other natural plant. Whatever it takes to have total control. That's all it is, and all that it ever will be.
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Actually I was right there reading it in 2009 as well. Are you talking about the "Our concern is that this might introduce nonusers to nicotine use"? BS then, BS now. Let's not forget the F in FDA is for FEDERAL. I don't buy the "save the children" approach they've tried to pawn off on us over the years. If you accept their "motivation" as the truth, then that's your opinion, but I respectfully do not agree.
"The Agency intends to propose a regulation that would extend the Agency’s “tobacco product” authorities in Chapter IX of the FD&C Act, which currently only apply to certain specifically enumerated “tobacco products,” to other categories of tobacco products that meet the statutory definition of “tobacco product” in Section 201(rr) of the Act. The additional tobacco product categories would be subject to general controls ($$$), such as registration ($$$), product listing ($$$), ingredient listing ($$$), good manufacturing practice requirements ($$$), user fees for certain products ($$$), and the adulteration and misbranding provisions ($$$), as well as to the premarket review requirements ($$$) for “new tobacco products” and “modified risk tobacco products.”
I think my error was merely using the word "tax"; that's my error. FDA wants to "regulate". Anytime I hear "regulate" I just hear "source of gov't income that was previously non-existent". If they had to approve products, theres money for type approvals, applications processing, manufacturer licensing, testing, jobs created to perform/manage these tasks, etc. Plus, the approved products would be more expensive to compensate, subject to tax, therefore more money generated. They could even require a doctor's prescription which would create even more cash flow back into the stream. Look at how much a pack of analogs costs to manufacture: $1.25 is about the operating cost of manufacturing (not the pack, but the pack plus company operating costs factored in). So, $9.35 per pack in Mass? $8.10 divided to the manufacturer and all the "regulators". But that's done for the safety of the American people of course... In a field where I have to enforce statutory regulations, I know that most of the time, the compliance with the regs comes at a very high cost to the manufacturer and end consumer.
Big Pharm? Sure, why not! Gee, I wonder why they're funding the anti-vaping propaganda? I'm sure they have our best interest in mind; not that there are substances that THEY could be producing and selling at a massive profit instead of these products being imported. And I'm sure Big Tobacco doesn't want vaping legal because it's not healthy, not that it could eat into their profits by displacing their "clients".
It's money; however you want to express that: regulated products, banned products, taxes, limitations, etc. It is money now, it was money then, it will be money in the future. I've read the proceedings, the testimonials, watched the videos, etc.... It's still money. People can stand before them and emotionally testify that this genre of NRT has changed their lives, saved their lives, and is better for humanity than traditional tobacco use; but that doesn't change the simple fact that there is no government or government-pocket-padder hand in the cookie jar right now.
But hey.... even if they break the barrier, place the taxes/regulations/restrictions, and limit the way I can do it, I'll still do it over analogs anyday if I even choose to do it at all. This is the reason I started in the first place, like many other people, to quit tobacco. I already joined and did the survey you speak of, but I'm not about to think that the government will not intervene further. You're of course welcome to your opinions, but I don't see a full "ban" coming.... but I'm sure my wallet won't be as happy as it is now if the gov't has anything to do with it!
I'm not sure what in your long post applied to my comments, other than maybe my suggestion that money was not the driving force in the FDA's attempts to ban vaping out-right in 2009 - 2010. I'm sure in any deeming regulation that money will play a part and make vaping much more expensive. But part of the money aspect will be to protect Big Pharm and to a degree, enable Big Tobacco to monopolize the market with their vasting inferior products. But money was never the FDA's motivation to ban vaping back then. At the time, they fully bought-in to the premise that if it "looks" anything like smoking, then it must be stopped, plain and simple.
I suspect big pharma to be the culprit here. I think at first big tobacco may have also tried to get e-cigs banned but the other day i read an article stating the makers of marlboro are looking to release their own line of e-cigs... If that really is true, then it may actually pit big tobacco against big pharma. Only time will tell I guess.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: The Soterra vs. FDA decision was a GODSEND to us. It took away FDA's biggest hammer and put them in the conundrum they've been in for more than two years.
You have heard about all of these natural, herbal extracts that promote things like joint health, prostate health and testosterone production?
Not one of them is regulated by the FDA under FDCA. While e-cigs are regulable under FSPTCA, devices and substances containing no nicotine are not, and liquid nicotine already has many other uses besides what we're doing with it.
If they try to regulate flavored nic liquid, vendors will just break up the recipe and ship you the flavorings separate from the liquid containing the nic level you want.
I see no practical and enforceable scheme that FDA could devise that would end what we're doing as we know it. There might be something coming regarding manufacturing standards, proof of age required before purchase and full disclosure of ingredients, but the best liquid manufacturers are already doing most of that and won't miss a beat.
FDA is, for now, a toothless tiger.
For now.
You have heard about all of these natural, herbal extracts that promote things like joint health, prostate health and testosterone production?
Not one of them is regulated by the FDA under FDCA. While e-cigs are regulable under FSPTCA, devices and substances containing no nicotine are not, and liquid nicotine already has many other uses besides what we're doing with it.
If they try to regulate flavored nic liquid, vendors will just break up the recipe and ship you the flavorings separate from the liquid containing the nic level you want.
I see no practical and enforceable scheme that FDA could devise that would end what we're doing as we know it. There might be something coming regarding manufacturing standards, proof of age required before purchase and full disclosure of ingredients, but the best liquid manufacturers are already doing most of that and won't miss a beat.
FDA is, for now, a toothless tiger.
For now.
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I'm currently under the impression that one of the regulations that may be placed on ecigs, is to get rid of online sales (can't remember where I heard this). Depending on whether or not this happens, or whether this could apply to nic/batteries/atomizer parts, I might not have any other alternative to those crappy stick batteries and prefilled carts. I live in a small town, and thats all that is available. Man I don't wanna go back to analogs.
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